Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

[ryanf]

In this particular instance, the reason people are talking about benching Sexton is that Okoro is the new shiny toy, but they don't think he can play the 3. They want to slide him to the backcourt, and benching Sexton is the way to make that happen because neither Sexton nor Okoro is a capable PG.

Now, it has been talked about in the past that it makes sense to stagger Garland and Sexton, not necessarily to make either one look better, but to make the team look better. Whether you want to start Delly and bring Garland in to play the last 16 minutes of each half, or whether you want to find a capable SG to do the same deal with Sexton, I think it would be beneficial to the team.

I agree with you on both points, but to me, garland should be on the bench subbing in for delly, not the other way around.

But of course, garland is a high pick that needs to be developed and delly is not the player he used to be. So i understand why garland-sexton-okoro is in the starting line up. But as others mentioned, sexton gets the blame even if garland has lower % and higher TOs, or okoro having low stat lines. I just dont get the hate with sexton and the want to bench him when he has shown the most production, improvement and competitive fire among the young players.

 

[ryanf]

Right, different thread. The reason I can see Sexton coming off the bench over Garland if we move towards a more conventional team with average to above average sized players at each position, Sexton as an elite scorer would benefit from not having to be forced to get other players involved in the offense. Especially to start a game, it's very important that the point guard initiates the offense to get guys in their rhythm. If Sexton becomes that guy, 100% he's the starter over Garland. It's not because people think Garland is better than Sexton... A starting lineup of Garland/Sexton/Okoro just doesn't work. If we do that, we'd need much more size at the 3. I can see Sexton as the 1 or 2 if we draft Cunningham so the two can split the duties of passing, and bring Garland off the bench. It's a situation where our 1-3 are far too small to play competitive defense. It's not a long term solution if we want to make the playoffs and then make a playoff run.

I can see people arguing this strategy if Sexton's scoring was the immediate reason for us winning games and making the playoffs. But the proof right now is, Sexton can get his own but we can't make the playoffs. Yes, we've had injuries, but how many games have we won this season off Sexton's scoring alone?

Nobody remembers the 2 nets games??? Against kd-kyrie-harden??? Jeesus christ!

 

[ryanf]

Gonna give sexton the monicker "scapegoat". That's sexton scapegoat... coz folks need a punching bag to air out losses

 

[Futuredome]

3 is n a row, triggered

 

[ansatsusha80]

Gonna give sexton the monicker "scapegoat". That's sexton scapegoat... coz folks need a punching bag to air out losses

Sexton will never shake that article about him not knowing how to play basketball.The vets on that team that threw him under the bus in that article did Sexton a huge disservice....

How can a bunch of vets be mad at Sexton just because they wanted the organization to trade that pick so Lebron can stay and carry their sorry asses back to the playoffs again.

No matter,what Sexton does people will find a way to nitpick everything about him.

This team got a bunch of non-scorers or scorers that's inconsistent but somehow Sexton is the problem.

 

[ansatsusha80]

Right, different thread. The reason I can see Sexton coming off the bench over Garland if we move towards a more conventional team with average to above average sized players at each position, Sexton as an elite scorer would benefit from not having to be forced to get other players involved in the offense. Especially to start a game, it's very important that the point guard initiates the offense to get guys in their rhythm. If Sexton becomes that guy, 100% he's the starter over Garland. It's not because people think Garland is better than Sexton... A starting lineup of Garland/Sexton/Okoro just doesn't work. If we do that, we'd need much more size at the 3. I can see Sexton as the 1 or 2 if we draft Cunningham so the two can split the duties of passing, and bring Garland off the bench. It's a situation where our 1-3 are far too small to play competitive defense. It's not a long term solution if we want to make the playoffs and then make a playoff run.

I can see people arguing this strategy if Sexton's scoring was the immediate reason for us winning games and making the playoffs. But the proof right now is, Sexton can get his own but we can't make the playoffs. Yes, we've had injuries, but how many games have we won this season off Sexton's scoring alone?

Sexton is the only player that can drop 20+ consistently yet you're acting like he's the problem..

Especially, when this team has a bunch of non-scorers.

 

[kookoo]

Sexton is the only player that can drop 20+ consistently yet you're acting like he's the problem..

Especially, when this team has a bunch of non-scorers.

In what fucking world have I called him a problem. Have you by chance ever heard of the term defense? OR assists? Balance? Seems not.

Your take literally seems to be points = wins. Which is incredibly inaccurate. What's even worse is you're posting some dude who has like 800 followers on Twitter like his take is everyone but yours, and then a response, which I can only assume is yours...

I think Sexton should win MIP this season. BUT, I'm arguing for the rationale on why he'd be best suited on the bench. If you're incapable of understanding that, there is 0 point in having a further conversation with you.

 

[BigZ94]

The fact that Jamal Murray and fricken Gary Trent Jr had a 50 and 40 point game against us, on record breaking efficiency in the same season. This combination of Sexton Garland and Okoro will not work for us defensively. I think it’s as simple as A: we get a playmaking wing = Sexton starts Garland off the bench, Okoro at the 2. Or B: we get an athletic 2 way SF = Sexton off the bench, Garland and Okoro 1/2.

The defence just isn’t good enough

 

[kookoo]

The fact that Jamal Murray and fricken Gary Trent Jr had a 50 and 40 point game against us, on record breaking efficiency in the same season. This combination of Sexton Garland and Okoro will not work for us defensively. I think it’s as simple as A: we get a playmaking wing = Sexton starts Garland off the bench, Okoro at the 2. Or B: we get an athletic 2 way SF = Sexton off the bench, Garland and Okoro 1/2.

The defence just isn’t good enough

Some people are too into a single stat from one player to understand that other things exist in a game that factor into wins and losses. The Phoenix Suns model of outscore your opponent without playing defense only works if you're playing 2K... Sexton or Garland defending 2s isn't a long term winning strategy, neither is Okoro guarding 3s.

 

[Erbium]

A lot of “we need to bench Donovan McNabb to start Kevin Kolb” going on in here.

while Collin does lack great court vision, and is a little clunky, based on the talent in this team, he is far and away the best offensive player on the team, and is only 22. That not the type of player you bench so Taurean Prince can start.

my “hot take” is, we are all bored watching bad, meaningless basketball, so we are over complicating something that is very simple. Until we have an option that can viably displace Sexton or Garland, and even Okoro, you just keep riding the wheels off and develop those 3 players. We are still in the infancy of the rebuild...we don’t need things to make sense or even result in wins. We need player improvement and more young players

 

[ice cream man]

I’m not as worried about Sexton’s offense if we have other guys on the floor that keep the ball/body movement going. If he wasn’t hitting shots I’d be concerned. I’m more worried about his (lack of) defense. He’ll get energized, perhaps after a bucket, and play in-your-face D 10% of the time. But the other 90% of the time he’s standing straight up off the ball, last one down the court in transition, doing the bare minimum. His speed could really bother other guards. Putting your starting 3, Okoro, on the other team’s point guard when you got two smaller guys on the court is just not gonna work against halfway decent teams.

 

[kookoo]

A lot of “we need to bench Donovan McNabb to start Kevin Kolb” going on in here.

while Collin does lack great court vision, and is a little clunky, based on the talent in this team, he is far and away the best offensive player on the team, and is only 22. That not the type of player you bench so Taurean Prince can start.

my “hot take” is, we are all bored watching bad, meaningless basketball, so we are over complicating something that is very simple. Until we have an option that can viably displace Sexton or Garland, and even Okoro, you just keep riding the wheels off and develop those 3 players. We are still in the infancy of the rebuild...we don’t need things to make sense or even result in wins. We need player improvement and more young players

I wouldn't bench him this season... The caveat for benching him would be if we get a really good 3 either via the draft or as a free agent. I don't see this team as a competitive one with Prince at the 3 or with both Sexton and Garland starting together.

 

[Littaguy714]

The entire debate is not about Colin's ability to score. He is the most talented offensive player by a large margin.

The problem is on a good, playoff caliber squad, Colin Sexton is the 3rd scoring option, while here he is the guy dominating the ball, taking 20 shots a night.

How do the Cavs build around that going forward? Is it even possible? Colin does not spend his first 3 years in the league on this team as the player he is and suddenly start to acquiesce minutes/shots, at least not in Cleveland anyway.

Given the limitations of the market, the Cavs only hope of building a winner is a total team based approach to basketball and I do not know how well Colin fits with that.

I do not blame Colin or think he is the problem with this squad. He was drafted into a terrible situation and tried to step up at a time the team had almost no one who could put the ball in the basket. The problem in doing that is he never learned how to play team basketball and given how badly his overall game was lacking in court awareness, feel and vision, the Cavs compounded the problem by letting him dominate the ball so much.

I do not know the answers and worst yet, I have no faith Koby Altmann does either. Koby just seem to like to draft various pieces parts without any regard for how they fit together.

 

[daytripper]

The entire debate is not about Colin's ability to score. He is the most talented offensive player by a large margin.

The problem is on a good, playoff caliber squad, Colin Sexton is the 3rd scoring option, while here he is the guy dominating the ball, taking 20 shots a night.

How do the Cavs build around that going forward? Is it even possible? Colin does not spend his first 3 years in the league on this team as the player he is and suddenly start to acquiesce minutes/shots, at least not in Cleveland anyway.

Given the limitations of the market, the Cavs only hope of building a winner is a total team based approach to basketball and I do not know how well Colin fits with that.

I do not blame Colin or think he is the problem with this squad. He was drafted into a terrible situation and tried to step up at a time the team had almost no one who could put the ball in the basket. The problem in doing that is he never learned how to play team basketball and given how badly his overall game was lacking in court awareness, feel and vision, the Cavs compounded the problem by letting him dominate the ball so much.

I do not know the answers and worst yet, I have no faith Koby Altmann does either. Koby just seem to like to draft various pieces parts without any regard for how they fit together.

Dude just turned 22. Isn't it a little early to be pigeonholing him?
Collin is closer to Donovan Mitchell than 6MOY Jordan Clarkson but Cavs fans are so eager to make these proclamations. This team is in player development mode but some fans want an instant contender within 2-3 years of Lebron walking out the door but it doesn't work that way. The team has no choice but to develop their 3 lottery picks which means lots of minutes for them. The same fans would be the ones complaining if those minutes were going to Prince or Dotson because of "fit." Cavs are not to that stage of team development yet. I swear some folks would trade our young players for a 6 pack of beer every time they make mistakes.
Unfortunately the Cavs have had terrible lottery luck on top of everything else but Koby has still managed to find 3 NBA talents. You are not going to find star players that fit perfectly picking in the mid lottery every year. The Bulls have been picking in the same area the past 3 years and Koby's drafts have blown them away.

 

[ansatsusha80]

In what fucking world have I called him a problem. Have you by chance ever heard of the term defense? OR assists? Balance? Seems not.

Your take literally seems to be points = wins. Which is incredibly inaccurate. What's even worse is you're posting some dude who has like 800 followers on Twitter like his take is everyone but yours, and then a response, which I can only assume is yours...

I think Sexton should win MIP this season. BUT, I'm arguing for the rationale on why he'd be best suited on the bench. If you're incapable of understanding that, there is 0 point in having a further conversation with you.

No,you and everyone else are too quick to give up on Sexton but rarely say a word about the other guard.One minute, Garland is hot and the next he has a bunch a games that's pedestrian but never give him the same criticism as Sexton. Garland was 7/20,Nance and Love along the bench playing like shit Thursday nite but all I saw were people like you blaming Sexton for the loss when he was the only actively playing scoring and playing defense...wtf

I want Sexton gone because this fanbase and media here will always nitpick every single thing about him even though this team has a bunch players can't score,always take plays off on defense or both.

You have Love yelling at Sexton even though he missed over forty games.

A backup point guard that can't shoot to save his life.

The starting point guard that's petrified to shoot even though the team drafted him to do it.

A starting center that gets pushed around way too much.

A backup pf/sf thinks he can't clank a three-point shot just because he's been hot the last couple of games.

A head coach that puts the best player on the team with the bench but somehow everyone want to blame Sexton.

Dude just turned 22. Isn't it a little early to be pigeonholing him?
Collin is closer to Donovan Mitchell than 6MOY Jordan Clarkson but Cavs fans are so eager to make these proclamations. This team is in player development mode but some fans want an instant contender within 2-3 years of Lebron walking out the door but it doesn't work that way. The team has no choice but to develop their 3 lottery picks which means lots of minutes for them. The same fans would be the ones complaining if those minutes were going to Prince or Dotson because of "fit." Cavs are not to that stage of team development yet. I swear some folks would trade our young players for a 6 pack of beer every time they make mistakes.
Unfortunately the Cavs have had terrible lottery luck on top of everything else but Koby has still managed to find 3 NBA talents. You are not going to find star players that fit perfectly picking in the mid lottery every year. The Bulls have been picking in the same area the past 3 years and Koby's drafts have blown them away.

That's my issue,Sexton is the only player on this team that gets pigeonhole by people while they wants to give Okoro and Garland time to develop. It makes no sense at all.

Sexton has improved every season he's been in the league but it's still not good enough for them. I don't understand, this rush to bench a guy that's improving.