Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

[Derek]

@Derek we are on the same page here with Mitchell

I believe just like with how Steph Curry depends on Draymond doing the intangibles and dirty work to free him up to focus on scoring more, Mitchell relies on Conley and Ingles on offense and all 3 of those guys on the other end to put him in a position where he can pick and choose how much energy to put into scoring vs the other aspects of the game.

What he did in the first round of last years playoffs was unique in that it was the perfect matchup with two teams approaching each other similarly on offense. It wasnt really Mitchell vs Murray that decided that series. It was Jokic vs Gobert and Ingles initiating vs Craig & Grant. It was funny watching Mike Malone literally make substitutions to keep one of those defenders on Ingles at all times. When Conley returned after a few games, he had to do it with both Conley and Ingles.

Mitchell is special, but there's to irony on Clarkson coming off the bench and giving them pretty much the exact same production. Both of them have had the game and their role simplified by Snyder's system and those 3 players, Gobert, Conley and Ingles playing their roles perfectly and consistently to a tee.

The Jazz are a damn good team with a really balanced attack. They are kind of like the present-day '04 Pistons. No true offensive superstar carrying the load, just an all-world defensive center and a lot of talented pieces that fit really well together. Now, the Jazz are a much better offensive team and not quite the defensive juggernaut that those Pistons were, but the comp is more about the roster balance and distribution of responsibilities.

Rip Hamilton was their leading scorer, but he wasn't better than Chauncey, Big Ben, or Sheed for that team. He was still incredibly valuable to them though.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

The Jazz are a damn good team with a really balanced attack. They are kind of like the present-day '04 Pistons. No true offensive superstar carrying the load, just an all-world defensive center and a lot of talented pieces that fit really well together. Now, the Jazz are a much better offensive team and not quite the defensive juggernaut that those Pistons were, but the comp is more about the roster balance and distribution of responsibilities.

Rip Hamilton was their leading scorer, but he wasn't better than Chauncey, Big Ben, or Sheed for that team. He was still incredibly valuable to them though.

SPOT on comparison in regard to what's being asked of him. Rip was asked to get to the line and compromise defense with his midrange game in a era predicated on physicality and defensive battles.

 

[Lee]

@Derek we are on the same page here with Mitchell

I believe just like with how Steph Curry depends on Draymond doing the intangibles and dirty work to free him up to focus on scoring more, Mitchell relies on Conley and Ingles on offense and all 3 of those guys on the other end to put him in a position where he can pick and choose how much energy to put into scoring vs the other aspects of the game.

What he did in the first round of last years playoffs was unique in that it was the perfect matchup with two teams approaching each other similarly on offense. It wasnt really Mitchell vs Murray that decided that series. It was Jokic vs Gobert and Ingles initiating vs Craig & Grant. It was funny watching Mike Malone literally make substitutions to keep one of those defenders on Ingles at all times. When Conley returned after a few games, he had to do it with both Conley and Ingles.

Mitchell is special, but there's to irony on Clarkson coming off the bench and giving them pretty much the exact same production. Both of them have had the game and their role simplified by Snyder's system and those 3 players, Gobert, Conley and Ingles playing their roles perfectly and consistently to a tee.

Personally I think Klay is the most important player on GS, i know its splitting hairs, but even with Curry going off for 10 games or so, without Klay, GS is just a 500 team. I also think Klay is criminally under rated. His skills line up very well with Pippen but he is a much, much better spot up shooter.

I am really not disagreeing, just throwing my love for Klay's game in there, lol

 

[LeeBuckeye]

You guys are nuts lol. Mitchell is a legitimate 2nd option playing a first option role, sure, but the guys is having an astounding season after starting off slow and coming off a supernova playoff loss against the Nuggets. Gobert is the backbone of that team but all of the pressure on the perimeter is on Mitchell every night.

Joe Ingles has had one good playoff run out of his four seasons in Utah. The famous one where he punked PG, which has proven to be an overrated feat since. Outside out that he hasn't shot better than 40.7% from the field in 3/4. Not sure how that even remotely debatable lol

Also as a 24 year old he's managed to continue improve his 3P% every season (38.6%) and has increased his FT rate. These are important components in making a run. Having Wade available should also help him since they've been compared a bit in the past unless it turns into a Shaq/Cousins situation haha.

 

[Derek]

You guys are nuts lol. Mitchell is a legitimate 2nd option playing a first option role, sure, but the guys is having an astounding season after starting off slow and coming off a supernova playoff loss against the Nuggets. Gobert is the backbone of that team but all of the pressure on the perimeter is on Mitchell every night.

Joe Ingles has had one good playoff run out of his four seasons in Utah. The famous one where he punked PG, which has proven to be an overrated feat since. Outside out that he hasn't shot better than 40.7% from the field in 3/4. Not sure how that even remotely debatable lol

Also as a 24 year old he's managed to continue improve his 3P% every season (38.6%) and has increased his FT rate. These are important components in making a run. Having Wade available should also help him since they've been compared a bit in the past unless it turns into a Shaq/Cousins situation haha.

We're not talking about who the most valuable players were on the 5-6 seed Jazz teams of the last few years. We're talking bout the 1 seed Jazz who are out there kicking ass and taking names.

Sure, Mitchell was right behind Gobert in value the last few years, but the main reason they've made a jump this year is the emergence of Ingles (who is setting efficiency records) and Conley (who is finally healthy and orchestrating Snyder's whole offense).

The Jazz are 17.8 points per 100 possessions worse when Gobert sits
They are 12.8 points worse when Conley sits
They are 5.0 points worse when Ingles sits
They are 3.6 points better when Mitchell sits

Now, I don't actually think the Jazz are better without Mitchell, that would be a ludicrous take. I just think those numbers speak more to the immense value of the other guys.

 

[LeeBuckeye]

Personally I think Klay is the most important player on GS, i know its splitting hairs, but even with Curry going off for 10 games or so, without Klay, GS is just a 500 team. I also think Klay is criminally under rated. His skills line up very well with Pippen but he is a much, much better spot up shooter.

I am really not disagreeing, just throwing my love for Klay's game in there, lol

I wonder what their record would've been if that had scrubs taking less shots and giving Curry 20+ shots a game. In such games the Warriors are 18-11.

 

[LeeBuckeye]

We're not talking about who the most valuable players were on the 5-6 seed Jazz teams of the last few years. We're talking bout the 1 seed Jazz who are out there kicking ass and taking names.

Sure, Mitchell was right behind Gobert in value the last few years, but the main reason they've made a jump this year is the emergence of Ingles (who is setting efficiency records) and Conley (who is finally healthy and orchestrating Snyder's whole offense).

Got it. Still not taking Ingles/Conley over Mitchell but lets agree to disagree. In a perfect world I would love to see a stable team oriented franchise like the Jazz win a title. Mitchell to receive the Finals MVP and for him to ask Shaq how his a** taste. Too classy for that probably.

 

[Lee]

We're not talking about who the most valuable players were on the 5-6 seed Jazz teams of the last few years. We're talking bout the 1 seed Jazz who are out there kicking ass and taking names.

Sure, Mitchell was right behind Gobert in value the last few years, but the main reason they've made a jump this year is the emergence of Ingles (who is setting efficiency records) and Conley (who is finally healthy and orchestrating Snyder's whole offense).

The Jazz are 17.8 points per 100 possessions worse when Gobert sits
They are 12.8 points worse when Conley sits
They are 5.0 points worse when Ingles sits
They are 3.6 points better when Mitchell sits

Now, I don't actually think the Jazz are better without Mitchell, that would be a ludicrous take. I just think those numbers speak more to the immense value of the other guys.

I agree with 90% of what you are saying, but you will never convince me that Ingles is more important than Mitchell, lol.

Gobert? Obviously, Conley? Most likely, but Ingles? come on now, lol

 

[Lee]

I wonder what their record would've been if that had scrubs taking less shots and giving Curry 20+ shots a game. In such games the Warriors are 18-11.

Valid point, but Curry gives back allot because he is such a poor defender and missing an elite wing defender in Klay will hurt allot especially in the playoffs, not to mention the other things Klay does on the low key.

 

[ryanf]

We're not talking about who the most valuable players were on the 5-6 seed Jazz teams of the last few years. We're talking bout the 1 seed Jazz who are out there kicking ass and taking names.

Sure, Mitchell was right behind Gobert in value the last few years, but the main reason they've made a jump this year is the emergence of Ingles (who is setting efficiency records) and Conley (who is finally healthy and orchestrating Snyder's whole offense).

The Jazz are 17.8 points per 100 possessions worse when Gobert sits
They are 12.8 points worse when Conley sits
They are 5.0 points worse when Ingles sits
They are 3.6 points better when Mitchell sits

Now, I don't actually think the Jazz are better without Mitchell, that would be a ludicrous take. I just think those numbers speak more to the immense value of the other guys.

Ok, that's your take. But here's mine, for those players, only gobert and mitchell are guys you put in other teams or system and still produce the same. I can't see that for conley and ingles and for me they're a product of the system, not their own talent. Put jrue holiday for conley and duncan robinson for ingles and you can still imagine the same plays working.

 

[Derek]

Ok, that's your take. But here's mine, for those players, only gobert and mitchell are guys you put in other teams or system and still produce the same. I can't see that for conley and ingles and for me they're a product of the system, not their own talent. Put jrue holiday for conley and duncan robinson for ingles and you can still imagine the same plays working.

Duncan Robinson and Joe Ingles don’t really play alike, so I don’t think that would work.

Jrue would, but I also think Jrue is better than Mitchell.

 

[Blazie]

Also, have you seen his girlfriend? If not it's worth a Google... Hard to worry about a kid's personal life when he's got that to come home to.

Googling that woman hurt my feelings so bad that it was almost physically painful.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Back to Collin for a second....

30 points on 17 shots, with seven assists.

Not too shabby.

 

[Goldin Brown]

Tremendous performance from Collin tonight. Played really under control, very balanced offensive attack with elite efficiency. If he keeps playing like this, he's an all-star.

 

[daddywags]

In 4 games back from his latest injury rest he's 10-17 on 3-point attempts. Averaging 27.5 ppg on 54% shooting.