Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

[inliner311]

I think Garland has a role as a starting NBA PG on a good team. He plays with his head up, he looks to get guys the ball.. he over dribbles which can get him into trouble and he isn't strong enough to be a good defender, but he doesn't get out of position.

I think Sexton has a role as the leader of a second unit on a good NBA team. He plays downhill, he attacks constantly and puts pressure on the defense. He doesn't get his teammates involved, he will force shots and can get himself in trouble over-penetrating looking for a shot.

Both guys are good, and imo, both guys are miscast. IMO, Garland isn't a 1A or 1B option on a good team, he's a facilitator to that player and then he's an outlet for the open shot, as well as general game-flow manager in the offense. IMO, Sexton isn't a 1A or 1B option on a good team, he's the guy you bring in to go get buckets off the bench, and when your team's offense just isn't going.

The problem is the clock is ticking to get them both cast correctly, and I just don't think Sexton can be cast correctly in Cleveland. Which is really a Dan Gilbert problem. He wanted to force Sexton into the starting group as a rookie, re-cast the team around him.. now he's the face of the franchise, is ready for an extension and his best role is that of a super-sub (and I know, at least 65% if not more of you don't agree with me that that's his best role, to which I say we are at an impasse on that front).

I think Sexton would work fine as our #2 option. If we are looking at Sexton and Garland as an 1a and 1b than I think the failure is we didn't bring in enough talent to really compete.

If Sexton is our #2 scoring option, I think he would run with our second unit regardless of him starting. Kyrie use to run the second unit when Lebron sat. #2 players tend to play with teams second units to keep the offense going.

The more talent that is brought in the less problems the pairing of Sexton and Garland become. They can be broken up within the rotation but kept happy by being named starters. The more scoring we have the less Sexton and Garland have to play together to keep us in games.

 

[Ozone]

This is great, except you'll never get there with Collin and Garland in the same backcourt and averaging the usage they do.

Hopefully we luck into a better option via the draft or development.

Even if that proves true, it will be highly dependent on the development of other players like Allen, Garland and Okoro not the current version of Collin Sexton. Being the hardest working player in the league ,he is going to be a step ahead of everyone else on this roster without question as a result, and the front office knows it.

 

[Cavatt]

I think Sexton would work fine as our #2 option. If we are looking at Sexton and Garland as an 1a and 1b than I think the failure is we didn't bring in enough talent to really compete.

If Sexton is our #2 scoring option, I think he would run with our second unit regardless of him starting. Kyrie use to run the second unit when Lebron sat. #2 players tend to play with teams second units to keep the offense going.

The more talent that is brought in the less problems the pairing of Sexton and Garland become. They can be broken up within the rotation but kept happy by being named starters. The more scoring we have the less Sexton and Garland have to play together to keep us in games.

I really want Cade, Barnes, Kuminga in that order for this reason. Start one of those at the 3. Let Collin start but play off the bench more with Okoro as his 2 guard. Okoro looked good like this at the end of the year and they were great pushing in transition. It also mean Okoro can be brought in for either small guard if there is a particularly bad mismatch, maybe Klay Thompson/Harden type at the 2. It would also give Okoro more ball handling responsibility.

It is also like, if Collin's feel is too bad, which I don't really buy, put good IQ guys like Darius and Okoro around him to mitigate. I just think Collin is taking baby steps in this area, and people aren't really noticing. His teammates have even talked about it, and so have Phelps and Campy and others.

My main concern with Sexton was his feel, but I am over it now. I think I have seen enough. He is 22, by the time he is 25 he will figure it out and he will probably be an allstar.

 

[Willard513]

Collin does have better length/strength, but he's also guarding the longer/stronger guy. My guess is that his numbers would look better if he was guarding PG's as is Garland.

I mean, it’s not like he was guarding the best player on the other team every night, that was isaacs job. So I’m not sure which world beaters we expected Collin to guard.

To your point, if he is the starting 2, he is going to have to guard wings if he can’t play the 1. I don’t expect Darius to guard anyone but 1s or 2s if we are playing the trailblazers type teams. Unless he can generate 40 points per game off his scoring and assists, he is going to be a net negative as it currently stands.

 

[Muffinalt]

I really want Cade, Barnes, Kuminga in that order for this reason. Start one of those at the 3. Let Collin start but play off the bench more with Okoro as his 2 guard. Okoro looked good like this at the end of the year and they were great pushing in transition. It also mean Okoro can be brought in for either small guard if there is a particularly bad mismatch, maybe Klay Thompson/Harden type at the 2. It would also give Okoro more ball handling responsibility.

It is also like, if Collin's feel is too bad, which I don't really buy, put good IQ guys like Darius and Okoro around him to mitigate. I just think Collin is taking baby steps in this area, and people aren't really noticing. His teammates have even talked about it, and so have Phelps and Campy and others.

My main concern with Sexton was his feel, but I am over it now. I think I have seen enough. He is 22, by the time he is 25 he will figure it out and he will probably be an allstar.

Allen/Hartenstein/Kabengele
Nance/Love/Wade (injuries give plenty of time to all three sadly)
Cade/Prince or Cedi/Windler
Sexton/Okoro/Dotson
Garland/Caruso or McConnel/Delly

Really would like this roster actually. If they all stay healthy that's a lot of options like you say. Put the guys in situations to succeed and build up their confidence and ability.

 

[inliner311]

Allen/Hartenstein/Kabengele
Nance/Love/Wade (injuries give plenty of time to all three sadly)
Cade/Prince or Cedi/Windler
Sexton/Okoro/Dotson
Garland/Caruso or McConnel/Delly

Really would like this roster actually. If they all stay healthy that's a lot of options like you say. Put the guys in situations to succeed and build up their confidence and ability.

I'd rather use some of the future 2nd round picks we have and trade into this year's draft to get a backup PG than pay a vet like Caruso or McConnel or even bring back Delly. We know we need a taller backup PG for the future, might as well go out and get one or two to develop.

 

[Cavatt]

I'd rather use some of the future 2nd round picks we have and trade into this year's draft to get a backup PG than pay a vet like Caruso or McConnel or even bring back Delly. We know we need a taller backup PG for the future, might as well go out and get one or two to develop.

I like Mcconnell. I do think he can help the team and is the type of vet to target

 

[inliner311]

I like Mcconnell. I do think he can help the team and is the type of vet to target

I think backup PG is an easy target to get someone in the draft. I think the hit rate for them is pretty high in the late 1st to early 2nd. Even lotto picks that are PGs that don't work out as starters tend to stay in the league as backup PGs.

If we are going to use the MLE, I would target a wing. We brought in Jarrett Jack with Kyrie and Dion the same year we stumbled on to undrafted Delly. This draft has an unusual high number of taller PGs that are older and projected to go in the late 1st to early 2nd. There really isn't many small PGs in this draft.

If you look at the 2018 draft there were a bunch PGs in that range that are decent players. Bruce Brown, Shake Milton, De'anthony Melton, Jalen Brunson, Devonte Graham, and Aaron Holiday. Landry Shamet was a college PG and probably would have been a good backup PG if that was the route they wanted to develop him as.

 

[J_J]

I think if we have a legit wing, Sexton’s value goes higher. The lack of talent we have on the wings makes it difficult for Sexton.

 

[Ozone]

I mean, it’s not like he was guarding the best player on the other team every night, that was isaacs job. So I’m not sure which world beaters we expected Collin to guard.

To your point, if he is the starting 2, he is going to have to guard wings if he can’t play the 1. I don’t expect Darius to guard anyone but 1s or 2s if we are playing the trailblazers type teams. Unless he can generate 40 points per game off his scoring and assists, he is going to be a net negative as it currently stands.

in a positionless league, where it's my ability against yours, in any one on one match up, within any offense, he does not need to always be defending bigger off ball guards or wings, because there are a load of smaller combos like him,playing legitimate minutes, all over the average nba rotation.
I have no concerns about Sexton defensively, when the team gets good enough for him, to care about playing it more than just early in a season, when they are still in optimistic mode.

 

[Cavatt]

He has shown he can be more engaged defensively when it counts. They had a hard time defensing without Nance, who is their anchor there. He and Okoro together created a lot of steals that Sexton was able to score from. Nance only played ~25 good games tho.

 

[Muffinalt]

I think backup PG is an easy target to get someone in the draft. I think the hit rate for them is pretty high in the late 1st to early 2nd. Even lotto picks that are PGs that don't work out as starters tend to stay in the league as backup PGs.

If we are going to use the MLE, I would target a wing. We brought in Jarrett Jack with Kyrie and Dion the same year we stumbled on to undrafted Delly. This draft has an unusual high number of taller PGs that are older and projected to go in the late 1st to early 2nd. There really isn't many small PGs in this draft.

If you look at the 2018 draft there were a bunch PGs in that range that are decent players. Bruce Brown, Shake Milton, De'anthony Melton, Jalen Brunson, Devonte Graham, and Aaron Holiday. Landry Shamet was a college PG and probably would have been a good backup PG if that was the route they wanted to develop him as.

I agree with your point about finding quality back PGs but I think our roster with the 2-3 young ballhandlers could really use a vet who backs them and provides a safety net. It would be a better addition imo than another youngster who we'd need to develop and not be able to rely on the same way.

 

[Beanie4Heisman]

Collin does have better length/strength, but he's also guarding the longer/stronger guy. My guess is that his numbers would look better if he was guarding PG's as is Garland.

But this brings us back to the point of Collin not running the offense like a PG.

Which was made more blatant once we fully grasped that Okoro is undersized at SF.

So as currently constructed Cavaliers are undersized at three starting positions. This is something no giant backline defenders (such as Rudy G) or heavy rotate/recover defensive concepts can mask or amend. We simply get shot over repeatedly. And we don't have the efficient shooters to outscore such a defensive deficiency.

 

[Beanie4Heisman]

RE Game 7: The paint would be so packed in the playoffs Sexton would have a vastly tougher time "getting his"

He's an outstanding scorer, but the question becomes is he truly more valuable than say, Jordan Clarkson...

 

[CleveRocks]

RE Game 7: The paint would be so packed in the playoffs Sexton would have a vastly tougher time "getting his"

He's an outstanding scorer, but the question becomes is he truly more valuable than say, Jordan Clarkson...

His arc is more similar to Donovan Mitchell than Clarkson. And he is the same size as Mitchell..