Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

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sailfish

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the correct comp is, always will be Ben Gordon.

I have spoken.
In 11 NBA seasons, the most points Gordon ever averaged were 21.4 and the most assists he ever averaged were 3.6. By comparison, in just his third NBA season, Sexton averaged 24.3 ppg and 4.4 apg, both better than Gordon’s career bests.

Sorry, guy, but that’s just a weak comparison. Why are hating on Collin?
 
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weepinwillow

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In 11 NBA seasons, the most points Gordon ever averaged were 21.4 and the most assists he ever averaged were 3.6. By comparison, in just his third NBA season, Sexton averaged 24.3 ppg and 4.4 apg, both better than Gordon’s career bests.

Sorry, guy, but that’s just a week comparison. Why are hating on Collin?
different league in the early oughts, guy. They didn't shoot as much as the pace of play was way down.. plus Ben played on 1 Bulls team that finished below .500.. It's actually a phenomenal comparison.. for Collin. Ben was a better player in terms of actually winning basketball games, but they were pretty similar in style.
 

buzzdog

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In 11 NBA seasons, the most points Gordon ever averaged were 21.4 and the most assists he ever averaged were 3.6. By comparison, in just his third NBA season, Sexton averaged 24.3 ppg and 4.4 apg, both better than Gordon’s career bests.

Sorry, guy, but that’s just a week comparison. Why are hating on Collin?
'Cause that's what Cavs fans do. They hate on their own players.
 

sailfish

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different league in the early oughts, guy. They didn't shoot as much as the pace of play was way down.. plus Ben played on 1 Bulls team that finished below .500.. It's actually a phenomenal comparison.. for Collin. Ben was a better player in terms of actually winning basketball games, but they were pretty similar in style.
I’m not wasting my time…go root for the Bulls.
 

weepinwillow

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'Cause that's what Cavs fans do. They hate on their own players.
I don't hate Collin, I just see who he is. Decent scoring combo guard best suited as a 6th man on a winning team.
I’m not wasting my time…go root for the Bulls.
I've been a Cavs fan for nearly as long as I can remember. Get over yourself.
 

Cavatt

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There's been a ceiling put on Sexton his entire tenure with the Cavs and it is bizarre because I've rarely seen a guy improve so dramatically. He's not just a hard worker, his understanding of the game had really improved. Yes he needs to be locked in defensively better, but he has improved there unlike the way he is being portrayed.

Future improvement is best predicted by past improvement. Sexton went from unknown as a sophomore in highschool to 5 star recruit. He also went from "worst NBA player" to top 20 NBA scorer in 2 years.

The improvement of both our guards is amazing. There is plenty of reason to believe they come back even stronger next year. As bad as this tank had been, the developmental staff has been a bright spot.

The same guys arguing against Sexton now have been wrong about him every year so far. I have no reason to trust their assessment now. Dudes an assassin. He hasn't totally integrated himself into the team concept, but is much closer than he was.

Sexton gets better over the course of a game. He finds and exploits weaknesses. I see that quality doing him good when he does make the playoffs.
 

roozy

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There's been a ceiling put on Sexton his entire tenure with the Cavs and it is bizarre because I've rarely seen a guy improve so dramatically. He's not just a hard worker, his understanding of the game had really improved. Yes he needs to be locked in defensively better, but he has improved there unlike the way he is being portrayed.

Future improvement is best predicted by past improvement. Sexton went from unknown as a sophomore in highschool to 5 star recruit. He also went from "worst NBA player" to top 20 NBA scorer in 2 years.

The improvement of both our guards is amazing. There is plenty of reason to believe they come back even stronger next year. As bad as this tank had been, the developmental staff has been a bright spot.

The same guys arguing against Sexton now have been wrong about him every year so far. I have no reason to trust their assessment now. Dudes an assassin. He hasn't totally integrated himself into the team concept, but is much closer than he was.

Sexton gets better over the course of a game. He finds and exploits weaknesses. I see that quality doing him good when he does make the playoffs.
Sexton has not improved defensively, he's atrocious off the ball. You can't win with a player that is constantly lost on rotations and dies on screens. His defense is literally one of the main reason his advance metrics are awful! His on off numbers are not good. His lazy contests on 3's are infuriating, basically he's really only paying attention for a leak out so he can race down the floor to score. I can't be the only one seeing this.
 

sailfish

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There's been a ceiling put on Sexton his entire tenure with the Cavs and it is bizarre because I've rarely seen a guy improve so dramatically. He's not just a hard worker, his understanding of the game had really improved. Yes he needs to be locked in defensively better, but he has improved there unlike the way he is being portrayed.

Future improvement is best predicted by past improvement. Sexton went from unknown as a sophomore in highschool to 5 star recruit. He also went from "worst NBA player" to top 20 NBA scorer in 2 years.

The improvement of both our guards is amazing. There is plenty of reason to believe they come back even stronger next year. As bad as this tank had been, the developmental staff has been a bright spot.

The same guys arguing against Sexton now have been wrong about him every year so far. I have no reason to trust their assessment now. Dudes an assassin. He hasn't totally integrated himself into the team concept, but is much closer than he was.

Sexton gets better over the course of a game. He finds and exploits weaknesses. I see that quality doing him good when he does make the playoffs.
Well said, my friend. I don’t understand people hating on one of our own, especially when this 22 year old kid is as humble & hard-working as Sexton is. If you just look at his stats, he’s improved dramatically every season. The Sexton-haters blame Collin for our record, like it’s all his fault, and give all the veterans, who have let us down, a pass. I recall people being critical of Booker in Phoenix & Giannis in Milwaukee, but those haters sure have been muted…
 
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weepinwillow

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There's been a ceiling put on Sexton his entire tenure with the Cavs and it is bizarre because I've rarely seen a guy improve so dramatically. He's not just a hard worker, his understanding of the game had really improved. Yes he needs to be locked in defensively better, but he has improved there unlike the way he is being portrayed.

Future improvement is best predicted by past improvement. Sexton went from unknown as a sophomore in highschool to 5 star recruit. He also went from "worst NBA player" to top 20 NBA scorer in 2 years.

The improvement of both our guards is amazing. There is plenty of reason to believe they come back even stronger next year. As bad as this tank had been, the developmental staff has been a bright spot.

The same guys arguing against Sexton now have been wrong about him every year so far. I have no reason to trust their assessment now. Dudes an assassin. He hasn't totally integrated himself into the team concept, but is much closer than he was.

Sexton gets better over the course of a game. He finds and exploits weaknesses. I see that quality doing him good when he does make the playoffs.
It's not that Collin is bad, everyone loves his stupid-level chip and dogged work ethic.

His getting better and better is akin to me leveling up my hand drills though. They all do the same thing, but just do that same thing better. Collin keeps sharpening the scoring blade despite every coach and multiple teammates and whoever else telling him really needs to sharpen the other non-scoring aspects of his game. And those blades remain as dull as ever. One thing I'm surprised he hasn't developed is a quicker release from 3 off the dribble, as it's in his wheelhouse of things he likes to improve.But I digress.

What he looks like on a good team is Ben Gordon adjusted for pace (NBA games were in the 95-100 PPG, so a 23/24 PPG scorer today would look like a 19/21 PPG scorer in the early 2000's). A high usage but undersized combo guard who can score on 3 levels with very good efficiency. He doesn't have Ben's strength and Ben was a little bit longer in wingspan, and Ben had a better team around him that in many ways complimented his skill sets and lack of true playmaking ability.

If he can't bring more to the floor-game in other aspects while demanding such a huge portion of the usage, the coaches will eventually just start to dial his minutes back with more well rounded players at their disposal.
 

inliner311

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It's not that Collin is bad, everyone loves his stupid-level chip and dogged work ethic.

His getting better and better is akin to me leveling up my hand drills though. They all do the same thing, but just do that same thing better. Collin keeps sharpening the scoring blade despite every coach and multiple teammates and whoever else telling him really needs to sharpen the other non-scoring aspects of his game. And those blades remain as dull as ever. One thing I'm surprised he hasn't developed is a quicker release from 3 off the dribble, as it's in his wheelhouse of things he likes to improve.But I digress.

What he looks like on a good team is Ben Gordon adjusted for pace (NBA games were in the 95-100 PPG, so a 23/24 PPG scorer today would look like a 19/21 PPG scorer in the early 2000's). A high usage but undersized combo guard who can score on 3 levels with very good efficiency. He doesn't have Ben's strength and Ben was a little bit longer in wingspan, and Ben had a better team around him that in many ways complimented his skill sets and lack of true playmaking ability.

If he can't bring more to the floor-game in other aspects while demanding such a huge portion of the usage, the coaches will eventually just start to dial his minutes back with more well rounded players at their disposal.

I agree that he needs to work on other aspects of his game but I think there is some double standard with Sexton because he has been so able to improve his game in season these last 3 years.

Defense and playmaking are two things I think everyone wants him to get better at. It's also areas that would be hard for him to work on alone. Condensed season this year most likely meant less full team practices. Also the team wasn't healthy at all so the reps he was getting would have been constantly rotating. Playmaking would be more about chemistry with his teammates since he doesn't have the natural vision of someone like Garland.

On the defensive side, he could get better as a on ball defender working against someone but outside of Garland who is really a offensive player that could battle him. Kyrie and Delly use to say they would battle each other but it only improved each on one side of the ball. Sexton and Okoro could be battling each other but the result would most likely be similar to Kyrie and Delly.
 

Ozone

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There's been a ceiling put on Sexton his entire tenure with the Cavs and it is bizarre because I've rarely seen a guy improve so dramatically. He's not just a hard worker, his understanding of the game had really improved. Yes he needs to be locked in defensively better, but he has improved there unlike the way he is being portrayed.

Future improvement is best predicted by past improvement. Sexton went from unknown as a sophomore in highschool to 5 star recruit. He also went from "worst NBA player" to top 20 NBA scorer in 2 years.

The improvement of both our guards is amazing. There is plenty of reason to believe they come back even stronger next year. As bad as this tank had been, the developmental staff has been a bright spot.

The same guys arguing against Sexton now have been wrong about him every year so far. I have no reason to trust their assessment now. Dudes an assassin. He hasn't totally integrated himself into the team concept, but is much closer than he was.

Sexton gets better over the course of a game. He finds and exploits weaknesses. I see that quality doing him good when he does make the playoffs.
This
 

weepinwillow

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teams suck the floor in on Collin precisely because they know he won't see the weakside of the offense and make that pass.
Defense and playmaking are two things I think everyone wants him to get better at. It's also areas that would be hard for him to work on alone. Condensed season this year most likely meant less full team practices. Also the team wasn't healthy at all so the reps he was getting would have been constantly rotating. Playmaking would be more about chemistry with his teammates since he doesn't have the natural vision of someone like Garland.
both of these things require a feel/anticipation for the game. The criticism is warranted, we've had 3 seasons. Interrupted, sure. Thems the breaks though. He's had the complaints since he was a rookie.
 

Ozone

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teams suck the floor in on Collin precisely because they know he won't see the weakside of the offense and make that pass.

both of these things require a feel/anticipation for the game. The criticism is warranted, we've had 3 seasons. Interrupted, sure. Thems the breaks though. He's had the complaints since he was a rookie.
makes for some angry has beens on the same roster or hungry rookies, but overall the only way you criticize sexton for what he fails to do as a playmaker is if he doesnt in fact score on that possession.
remember when the cavs front office was talking about seeking a player that could create his own shot key word being own back in the summer of 18? I do
Kobe was notorious for having teammates that hated playing with him early on in his career for the same reasons.
So if Sexton ever consistently plays defense like he did against KD in the clip earlier posted in this thread I think he will be just fine
 
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