Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

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Ozone

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Garland isn't overrated at all.
seems to be pretty much so on these boards compared to any other I have seen. But if he takes another step or two this season I will back the idea of keeping him. Right now don't see the advantage in treating him like an untouchable player at all
 

mds

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Barnes is not proven in the NBA but he is at minimum the same level of defender and passer as Ben Simmons for a miniscule amount of salary and Garland is overrated
So a guy who has never played a minute of NBA ball is AT MINIMUM as good of a defender and passer as Ben Simmons, who is an all star at the point and DPOY candidate.

I'm not into trading for Simmons at all, but I'm even less into trading Garland PLUS other assets for a rookie who's proven nothing. Barnes MIGHT be amazing, but I wouldn't cut bait on Garland to take that chance.
 

weepinwillow

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Barnes is not proven in the NBA but he is at minimum the same level of defender and passer as Ben Simmons for a miniscule amount of salary and Garland is overrated
At a minimum, Barnes is an All NBA 1st team defender and top 12 in the NBA assist guy?
Cavs f'ing blew it drafting Mobley then.
 

The Human Q-Tip

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So a guy who has never played a minute of NBA ball is AT MINIMUM as good of a defender and passer as Ben Simmons, who is an all star at the point and DPOY candidate.

I'm not into trading for Simmons at all, but I'm even less into trading Garland PLUS other assets for a rookie who's proven nothing. Barnes MIGHT be amazing, but I wouldn't cut bait on Garland to take that chance.

I'd trade Garland for Barnes straight up, simply because I believe PG's are easier to find in drafts than are good wings. But I wouldn't toss in any additional significant assets.
 

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I think Siakam is the guy the Raptors have buyer's remorse on. They already explored his market over the summer. Moving either of them would be premature until Barnes demonstrates he can shoot in the NBA, IMO.

I think I would rather trade for Siakam than Simmons
 

The Human Q-Tip

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I think Siakam is overrated. At 24, he had that great playoff performance in 2019, and people assumed he was going to elevate his performance into elite territory in subsequent seasons. He didn't. He's now 26 years old, and I think it's time to consider that maybe that playoff run was something of an aberration.

Good not great player, and overpaid.
 

Ozone

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At a minimum, Barnes is an All NBA 1st team defender and top 12 in the NBA assist guy?
Cavs f'ing blew it drafting Mobley then.
I would be perfectly content watching Mobley Barnes and a bunch of g league guards over trading away future draft picks and the lottery guards for Simmons who will just fail and bail.
It is more about the question of replacement level player issues like another person just noted. I would also much rather have a rare Barnes to pair with Mobley going forward than a slightly better than average pg that doesn't play defense and is for some reason afraid to jack em up despite having the skill to take and make shots. It doesn't make much sense to hold onto Garland until his value is as bad as Sextons has become.
 

weepinwillow

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I would be perfectly content watching Mobley Barnes and a bunch of g league guards over trading away future draft picks and the lottery guards for Simmons who will just fail and bail.
It is more about the question of replacement level player issues like another person just noted. I would also much rather have a rare Barnes to pair with Mobley going forward than a slightly better than average pg that doesn't play defense and is for some reason afraid to jack em up despite having the skill to take and make shots. It doesn't make much sense to hold onto Garland until his value is as bad as Sextons has become.
Well, I'm not totally inclined to try and get Simmons. I think you could make the team better with him to some degree, but it likely wouldn't last long enough to be back in rebuilding mode.
My point was: Simmons is a very good NBA talent. You like Barnes more because he hasn't had the chance to be bad at things on an NBA level yet and because of the contract controls. That's fine, but it's hyperbole as being as "good at defense" as Ben Simmons, "at a minimum", would mean being top 5 in the NBA.
The likely only "untradable" guy on the Cavs in Altman's mind is likely Mobely right now. Garland is up there, but for the right player they'd pull the trigger I'd guess. Who that is? Don't know, don't think we will find out, either.
 

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That video of Sexton + Barnes dominating is intriguing but also somewhat painful :chuckle:

Mobley was still the obvious/easy pick, don't get me wrong. I think he's going to be a star. But Sexton/Barnes both looking jacked and somehow having chemistry hurts the stomach

Painful is the right word for me too. I think someone like Barnes is exactly who you want next to Sexton, to turn around his defense and offer extra playmaking.

But I was legitimately scared of drafting him coz of the no shot. He could be the best player from the class if that turns around, but I'm not sure it ever will.

I was pretty equal about Green, Barnes, Mobley and Cade pre draft. All of them had great things going but legit Q marks too.

After that intense video I'm leaning Barnes :chuckle:
 

weepinwillow

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Painful is the right word for me too. I think someone like Barnes is exactly who you want next to Sexton, to turn around his defense and offer extra playmaking.

But I was legitimately scared of drafting him coz of the no shot. He could be the best player from the class if that turns around, but I'm not sure it ever will.

I was pretty equal about Green, Barnes, Mobley and Cade pre draft. All of them had great things going but legit Q marks too.

After that intense video I'm leaning Barnes :chuckle:
I mean, if we are getting hot and bothered by work out vids, I say we trade everything for Ben Simmons, I saw him nailing 3's on IG the other day. Shit was pure.
 
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I mean, if we are getting hot and bothered by work out vids, I say we trade everything for Ben Simmons, I saw him nailing 3's on IG the other day. Shit was pure.
Pure bullshit actually. There are videos every summer of Ben knocking down threes. He won’t shoot in games though; 5/34 in four seasons, many of those are heaves.
 

weepinwillow

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Pure bullshit actually. There are videos every summer of Ben knocking down threes. He won’t shoot in games though; 5/34 in four seasons, many of those are heaves.
you mean to tell me that Ben Simmons would post vids of him knocking down 3's like Steph Curry, only to avoid them all season long??
 

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I was fine with taking Scottie Barnes over Jalen Green. But I would've killed them had they passed on Mobley for him.
While Mobley is more skilled, Barnes is a straight-up dawg. A vocal leader, in your face type of guy, who is gonna get others pumped. That’s not Mobley’s personality and he doesn’t have that in him. Only time will tell who is the better NBA player.
 

BigZ94

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While Mobley is more skilled, Barnes is a straight-up dawg. A vocal leader, in your face type of guy, who is gonna get others pumped. That’s not Mobley’s personality and he doesn’t have that in him. Only time will tell who is the better NBA player.

So he’s Pat Bev?
 

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