Collin Sexton | The Young Bull

[bs80]

I would like to get him for something in the 18-20m per year range. He would become one of the best 6th men in the game right off the bat, essentially in the Manu role. Im thinking something similar to the deal that EG got with NOH after the CP3 trade. You would have to scale up for inflation, but I think that puts you right in that spot.

I actually think there is a lot of incentive to bring Collin back from a culture perspective as he was the guy who really set the tone in the first place and the Cavs have had a reputation of being a very player friendly team. We aren't going to Boston it and trade guys the day after their grandma/sister died without warning. If Collin wants out, I am sure Koby would work out an S&T. I doubt it tho, everything seems to indicate Collin loves it in Cleveland and will want to come back.

Fully agree with a bunch of your points here. I don't think the culture perspective is the driving force behind paying him, but it's a nice bonus.

Incidentally, when talking about culture, I'm so happy that Jarrett, as the first of our young core to secure a nice bag for himself, has still gotten so much better which indicates he is still working his fucking ass off. What a great example for his younger teammates to take notice of. And I have full confidence in Collin to do the same if Koby gives him a contract that some here think is too generous.

 

[ryanf]

Sure, the Cavs are playing much better this year without him than they did at any point with him before this season. But what I'd freaking give to have him back healthy with this team right now...

In many ways, Collin fits the profile of what type of players we have been rumored to be interested in -- an off-the-ball guard that can get buckets and space the floor. The Cavs playing better after his injury hardly means that the Cavs wouldn't be even better with him back in the fold.

A guy like Levert will make almost $19 mil next year and a 33-year-old Gordon will be making almost $20 mil next season. Both those guys will likely cost us at least our 2022 FRP. Sexton doesn't necessarily stack up to those guys in every facet of his game, but at the same time, there are things that Collin can do that those other guys can't.

If we retain Sexton for any realistic figure, that means we aren't going to ever bother trying to create enough cap room to go big game fishing in FA. In that case, I'm fine making a good-faith offer of whatever deal we had on the table last offseason. Hate the agents all you want, but there is value in garnering some good will with them, and if all it costs is some of Dan's money, I'm more than fine with it.

It reminds me of the Jarrett Allen negotiations -- I thought we could've played hardball and gotten him for like $18 mil AAV, but instead we made him a healthy offer in good faith, and JA seems to absolutely love being a Cavalier.

 

[Cavatt]

With a switching defense like most of the big dogs teams play, you need a guy who can break the defense off the dribble and get past the perimeter.

Like the Lob game against drop coverage is great, but which top team plays drop? The bucks? but only with Brook?

 

[sportscoach]

Sexton to me is a good scorer so I am not against keeping him, but his size as a 2 guard is my question mark... I feel like we need someone with more size from the 2 spot...

 

[Heat Check]

With a switching defense like most of the big dogs teams play, you need a guy who can break the defense off the dribble and get past the perimeter.

Like the Lob game against drop coverage is great, but which top team plays drop? The bucks? but only with Brook?

Most NBA teams play some variation of drop coverage nowadays.

 

[Derek]

Why do people keep claiming the Cavs have been better without Collin. Fake News.

Record with Sexton: 7-4 (.636)
Record w/o Sexton: 20-14 (.588)

Is it this "new math" stuff that has led to your incorrect conclusion?

Collin ON the court this year:
ORTG - 102.2
DRTG - 108.3

Collin OFF the court this year:
ORTG - 112.9
DRTG - 106.7

Not trying to pile on Collin, because he’s certainly better than what he showed during his time on the court, but the people saying the Cavs are better without him this year are factually correct.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Why do people keep claiming the Cavs have been better without Collin. Fake News.

Record with Sexton: 7-4 (.636)
Record w/o Sexton: 20-14 (.588)

Is it this "new math" stuff that has led to your incorrect conclusion?

I think a bunch of the losses without Collin include the covid period when we were missing so many key players.

 

[daytripper]

Collin ON the court this year:
ORTG - 102.2
DRTG - 108.3

Collin OFF the court this year:
ORTG - 112.9
DRTG - 106.7

Not trying to pile on Collin, because he’s certainly better than what he showed during his time on the court, but the people saying the Cavs are better without him this year are factually correct.

I get it but Collin came into the season with an injured shoulder and then injured it again in the Laker game. This was after having his best game of the season against the Clippers. He then injured the meniscus in game 11 against the Knicks. Kind of a small sample size. If they can get him to play like Clipper game Collin then he can potentially make a huge difference for this team whether as a starter or 6th man.

 

[Lyuokdea]

Have there been any updates on Sexton injury wise?

I know the injury was immediately labeled season-ending (which was a bit odd to me, because MCLs are normally ~6 month injuries where people might be back by the end of the year).

It made more sense for the injury to be obviously season-ending when the Cavs were expected to be terrible. But now that we could make the playoffs, or even the second round - maybe there is a chance he is back?

Would be really nice to work him in for 15-20 MPG as a 6th man in a playoff series (especially given that this is where he seems to fit best long term).

 

[Cavatt]

Have there been any updates on Sexton injury wise?

I know the injury was immediately labeled season-ending (which was a bit odd to me, because MCLs are normally ~6 month injuries where people might be back by the end of the year).

It made more sense for the injury to be obviously season-ending when the Cavs were expected to be terrible. But now that we could make the playoffs, or even the second round - maybe there is a chance he is back?

Would be really nice to work him in for 15-20 MPG as a 6th man in a playoff series (especially given that this is where he seems to fit best long term).

The timeline matches up with the end of the season and the short timeline is even in march. Late timeline is something like beginning of the second round.

It seems like the tear was pretty bad. We might know more if he joins the team at some point.

I'm dying to see him with this team, but who knows if we will even get that chance.

 

[buzzdog]

I get it but Collin came into the season with an injured shoulder and then injured it again in the Laker game. This was after having his best game of the season against the Clippers. He then injured the meniscus in game 11 against the Knicks. Kind of a small sample size. If they can get him to play like Clipper game Collin then he can potentially make a huge difference for this team whether as a starter or 6th man.

This. Sexton was never really himself physically this season, then add adapting to the new ball and new role and it makes it problematic at best to use stats or data from this season in his evaluation.

 

[buzzdog]

The timeline matches up with the end of the season and the short timeline is even in march. Late timeline is something like beginning of the second round.

It seems like the tear was pretty bad. We might know more if he joins the team at some point.

I'm dying to see him with this team, but who knows if we will even get that chance.

Evidently all meniscus injuries are not equal. I've seen Lonzo Ball being projected to return in 4-6 weeks after getting a minor tear scoped, and it's the second time for him with a meniscus injury. I have to wonder if he is taking a risk by getting the torn flap removed, thereby reducing the thickness and longevity of the meniscus. In comparison Sexton went with a different approach that preserves the meniscus and has better long term implications.

I'm just basing this assumption on my own anecdotal and limited experience along with what I've read, is there anyone who cares to expand on, or verify/or debunk, that assumption?

 

[daytripper]

Evidently all meniscus injuries are not equal. I've seen Lonzo Ball being projected to return in 4-6 weeks after getting a minor tear scoped, and it's the second time for him with a meniscus injury. I have to wonder if he is taking a risk by getting the torn flap removed, thereby reducing the thickness and longevity of the meniscus. In comparison Sexton went with a different approach that preserves the meniscus and has better long term implications.

I'm just basing this assumption on my own anecdotal and limited experience along with what I've read, is there anyone who cares to expand on, or verify/or debunk, that assumption?

I'm certainly no expert but the headlines were emphasizing that Lonzo's injury was small/minor and the Bulls were initially hoping he could play thru it. It seemed Collin's tear was way more severe from the moment it happened. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Lonzo has nagging meniscus/knee injuries throughout his career as this is the 2nd scope on the same knee for him.

 

[Derek]

I get it but Collin came into the season with an injured shoulder and then injured it again in the Laker game. This was after having his best game of the season against the Clippers. He then injured the meniscus in game 11 against the Knicks. Kind of a small sample size. If they can get him to play like Clipper game Collin then he can potentially make a huge difference for this team whether as a starter or 6th man.

I feel like you didn’t read my post. I’m not saying the team is better off without Collin.

It’s just a fact that the minutes we played with Collin were worse than the ones we’ve played without him this year. The post I responded to was stating the contrary.

 

[Lee]

I get it but Collin came into the season with an injured shoulder and then injured it again in the Laker game. This was after having his best game of the season against the Clippers. He then injured the meniscus in game 11 against the Knicks. Kind of a small sample size. If they can get him to play like Clipper game Collin then he can potentially make a huge difference for this team whether as a starter or 6th man.

I am not pro or anti Collin, i am pretty neutral on him.

I see your point, but I also see the numbers. I know Collin can score and that is a very important skill. But i have always questioned him as a ball kill and we run a motion offense with cutters and slashers. The open looks on the perimeter are more from pick and pops than drive and kicks which is the one type of pass Colling is good at.

I also see where Collin could be a huge asset as the microwave off the bench, but see he might be a perfect fit next to a taller PG like Lonzo.

Its going to be a tough offseason for him, one that we will probably have to "wait and see" on what type of contract we can sign him to or what type of Sign and trade we can get.

Personally I dont want to trade him before the deadline, i would rather see what happens in the offseason as either keep him on a reasonable contract, or sign and trade him to a team he fits the starting unit with better. Either way this isnt a bash of Sexton, just a realistic look at who he is and how you build a winner.

Think of the trade in the 80's for Nance and Kevin Johnson. Sure there were filler, but we had Mark Price and KJ was too good to be a backup and didnt fit next to Price in the starting lineup. Mean while the Suns had Armon Gilliam at backup PF but needed a PG in the worst way. It ended up a huge win/win trade and propelled both rosters.