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Dan Gilbert

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I understand that joylessness quote if he's talking about the regular season. I think part of that was just getting to the playoffs, but the playoffs never felt like that. The regular season always felt like a formality and could get boring because everyone knew what they were really waiting for.

Working with LeBron is tough because he demands excellence. Thing is, this interview also showed LeBron was reasonable. Griffin had to say no to him and he was okay with it when he heard the reasoning. Maybe it came down to not liking a player have that much control over the org, but few players ever have the kind of talent and physical ability of LeBron.

It does seem like no amount of money would have convinced Griffin to stay when the contract ran out. Just sounds like Griffin wanted to build a team his way and was frustrated that LeBron came in and mucked it all up by taking the Cavs to four straight Finals appearances and winning one.

I like Griff, but this was just weird and not a good look for a sitting GM. If Zion is the next big generational talent, what does he think will happen in New Orleans? The NBA is a player driven league where a single player CAN have enormous influence on a team. That is not changing.
 

2 For The Brew

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Dick Vermeil was well-known for crying and emotional outbursts. He admitted to burnout after a tough stint in Philly. Years afterwards he had successful runs in St. Louis and KC -- and cried at a presser when his starting QB was hurt (Trent Green?)

If you're in between Gilbert and LeBron that is NOT an easy place to be. Lue had severe stress issues as well.

I think Griff was talking more about how HE dealt with everything and how it wasn't a good place for him. I'm not convinced he's "blaming" anyone else for how he felt about it.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I find the idea that being an NBA GM is not a difficult job to be absolutely ridiculous. Technically of course a research nuclear physicist is much more difficult -- but one has to look at the totality of a job, not just one aspect. It's possible to be in any job and not give a shit, but if you're a conscientious job-holder than any position at a high level in an organization requires an incredibly diverse set of skills to be effective. Much of the job is people management -- in the NBA it's an owner (who could be a psycho), the players, your staff, scouts, the media, other GMs, etc. You need to manage all of those relationships effectively or you won't be successful.

Maybe the most annoying aspect of any high-level job is the belief held by those who've never been there that the job is easy and anyone can do it. It isn't.
 

benchplayer

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felt about it.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I find the idea that being an NBA GM is not a difficult job to be absolutely ridiculous.
I agree, totally, but my problem with griff is that he should have known the job was hard at the start. This past free agency should have been a wake-up call for NBA fans and all front offices, that Nowadays, most of the top talent in the NBA are divas. If you ask me, I'd say that the Anthony Davis situation was WAAAAYY worse than having to build a team around Lebron. Even worse is that being a championship organization is not enough to keep teams safe anymore, I.e Kawhi Lenard leaving Toronto. Again, if Zion is as good as people project him to be, Griff is gonna be right back in the same situation, because eventually zion is gonna demand a team that can compete. Except for this time, Griff doesn't have an owner that's willing to put his money where his mouth is. lol, nowadays Gm's have a choice between running toxic teams or toxic but cheap teams.
 

Alec Zander

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It’s not a hard job. Almost every team has a capologist who tells you if the moves makes sense moneywise. You have scouts to go out and collect information for you. You have a proprietary communication portal where you can communicate with all other GM’s. Not to mention, a pretty complete rolodex with all their numbers and assistants numbers.

You get hired. Probably after laying out various 3-5 year plans based on the talent and assets you walk into. You have contingency plans, should players pull PG type moves, etc.

You have a working relationship with the owner and the head coach. You probably spend a lot of time being a therapist to an owner (this is normal working under really rich people). And trying to maintain a power balance with a head coach.

It’s really not that hard. you know which players fit a model that wins. you have matrices and spreadsheets that show you when guys are going to get expensive. And probably a couple analytic nerds who you kind of trust.

It takes a lot of time and good people skills. And as we have seen forever, drafting after pick number five is more or less a crapshoot so I can’t even say that’s part of the job because no one seems to do it well. Just grab a nbadraft.net big board and throw a dart.

It’s nowhere close to some sort of hard science job. It’s management and hope you get lucky with the lottery. Analytics, your head coach, and basic basketball sense will tell you how far the team is from contending.

And managing a LeBron team circa 2016, not hard either. You can’t convince yourself that the moves are going to determine if he stays or not - or make him “happy” - because he makes those moves no matter what you do. And come playoff time he’s going to give it all because of his age and his legacy

They kowtow’d every step of the way during his return and he was still a miserable fuck
 
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inliner311

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The one thing that Griff brings up is the media pressure around the team. I wonder if he took the Pelicans job thinking that he would be under very little pressure because AD wanted out and they didn't have any star power so he could build a roster and culture over time. I think that all changed once they got Zion and now he is under the microscope of the media and fans to build a team.

It wasn't likely that they were going to get Zion and it was pretty much out of his control like LeBron wanting to come back to Cleveland. I think he is in the very similar situation once again especially with all the picks he has in the future. Without Zion, Griff and the Pelicans could build out slowly and under the radar. With Zion, every little thing will be deconstructed just like this latest article.

He didn't help himself with tempering expectations of the team. He could have easily tried to say it was a process and they need to allow Zion to find his place in the league before truly building around him. Griff feed the hype around Zion and basically said they would build around Zion without him ever playing an NBA minute.

It wouldn't surprise me if Griff moves on in a year or two. I think he wants to build a team like the Steve Nash Suns. I think if the Suns GM job ever opens up, he try his hardest to get back there.
 

The Human Q-Tip

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I agree, totally, but my problem with griff is that he should have known the job was hard at the start.
I don't see anything wrong with a guy breaking down a bit because his job is so stressful. The problem I would have with hiring someone like Griffin is that he had his meltdown before LBJ even showed up. An executive who has to blow off steam occasionally because of the stress associated with his job may still be an outstanding executive. But Griffin has demonstrated such an aversion to potentially stressful situations that I would not trust him to always do what is best for his team, because expectations of greater success are always going to bring more success.

He likes this rebuilding phase because he can accumulate young players, and people will understand it will take a few years before there can be legitimate championship expectations. So...all the fun of being a GM without any of the stress.
 

2 For The Brew

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It’s not a hard job. Almost every team has a capologist who tells you if the moves makes sense moneywise. You have scouts to go out and collect information for you. You have a proprietary communication portal where you can communicate with all other GM’s. Not to mention, a pretty complete rolodex with all their numbers and assistants numbers.

You get hired. Probably after laying out various 3-5 year plans based on the talent and assets you walk into. You have contingency plans, should players pull PG type moves, etc.

You have a working relationship with the owner and the head coach. You probably spend a lot of time being a therapist to an owner (this is normal working under really rich people). And trying to maintain a power balance with a head coach.

It’s really not that hard. you know which players fit a model that wins. you have matrices and spreadsheets that show you when guys are going to get expensive. And probably a couple analytic nerds who you kind of trust.

It takes a lot of time and good people skills. And as we have seen forever, drafting after pick number five is more or less a crapshoot so I can’t even say that’s part of the job because no one seems to do it well. Just grab a nbadraft.net big board and throw a dart.

It’s nowhere close to some sort of hard science job. It’s management and hope you get lucky with the lottery. Analytics, your head coach, and basic basketball sense will tell you how far the team is from contending.

And managing a LeBron team circa 2016, not hard either. You can’t convince yourself that the moves are going to determine if he stays or not - or make him “happy” - because he makes those moves no matter what you do. And come playoff time he’s going to give it all because of his age and his legacy

They kowtow’d every step of the way during his return and he was still a miserable fuck
LOL you think it's easier to manage a bunch of demanding people from all directions of the org chart than work in a laboratory?????
 

Alec Zander

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Depends on your type of intelligence obviously. But I’d argue that there’s a lot more people out there who can manage an org chart than do quantum physics.
 

I'mWithDan

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Depends on your type of intelligence obviously. But I’d argue that there’s a lot more people out there who can manage an org chart than do quantum physics.
I think they’re different challenges but equally difficult. They also require different skills.

Being a GM is incredibly hard, even with someone like LeBron. I think multiple GM’s have done a sub par job at different times in his career and I think more than one of those guys are good ones. To me, that signals some of what Griff is alluding to is probably very true.

There’s also a part of me that does feel how you do, that it can’t be that hard with a generationally great player but it is just a different type of pressure......and I think the really difficult spot GM’s get put in with a player like LeBron is forgoing future assets and flexibility for a better chance now.. and how that can be self fulfilling. I think more than one GM has done a bad job at that and when multiple people have difficulty with that balancing act, if you believe that many people are capable of doing this job, multiple competent people failing possibly indicates it’s a hard problem.

I think it’s probably somewhere in between but it’s not easy.
 

Alec Zander

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The hardest part about having a generational talent like LeBron or Giannis is that it immediately tanks the value of your draft picks because they’re good enough on their own to get you out of the draft lottery after a year or two. High draft picks is the only real way small markets have to add elite talent and even that isn’t a sure thing. So your picks now aren’t good enough to get good players and now they aren’t worth much to trade.

So if you don’t have much talent, then you get a LeBron, how do you get additional talent going forward? You have to send out picks in volume and basically fuck yourself to build a faux-contender.

you’re depleted and old by the time the generational player hits FA. See LeBron first time around and Giannis.

It showed the brilliance of the Raptors move. They had the supporting case but lacked the Superstar. With no chance of adding a superstar organically, they sold out to make it happen. Even if only for a year and with their chances hinging on injuries that didn’t happen yet. Even if it was a 10% chance of working, that’s higher than 0% if they didn’t make a move.
 

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