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Darius Kinnard Garland

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What is Darius Garland's Ceiling?

  • One Time All-Star

    Votes: 14 8.8%
  • Occasional All-Star

    Votes: 19 11.9%
  • 5-6 Time All-Star

    Votes: 31 19.5%
  • Perennial All-Star

    Votes: 40 25.2%
  • An All-NBA Team or Two

    Votes: 22 13.8%
  • Perennial All-NBA Teamer

    Votes: 20 12.6%
  • Occasional MVP Candidate

    Votes: 11 6.9%
  • Perennial MVP Candidate

    Votes: 2 1.3%
  • MVP, Baby!

    Votes: 10 6.3%
  • Being Jim Chones

    Votes: 13 8.2%

  • Total voters
Jeff Teague had to ge through LeBron every year. Garland couldn't get through Brunson.
And jamal Crawford couldn't get through literally anyone for like 8 years. What is your point?
dude is soo fucking passive he really defers to car1/11s levert???
If you wanna take pot shots for tonight's loss you are in the wrong thread. 6ers without Embiid and our bigs had no impact. Caris missed wide open shots all night and JB needs to let go of lineups where he is the only ball handler yesterday.

Garland pushed the ball like everybody asked and Strus was the only warm body next to him.
The Cavs this season, according to bball ref, are 4 points per 100 possessions better than their opponent with Garland ON the court. That's good.

They are 7 points per 100 possessions better with him OFF the court.

He's a career 15 PER player. He's a 15 PER player this season.

He's making 40 million dollars.

Those are all factual statements.

Draw your own conclusions and conjure your own feelings towards them.
If you wanna take pot shots for tonight's loss you are in the wrong thread. 6ers without Embiid and our bigs had no impact. Caris missed wide open shots all night and JB needs to let go of lineups where he is the only ball handler yesterday.

Garland pushed the ball like everybody asked and Strus was the only warm body next to him.

Jarrett Allen was the teams leading scorer going 10-16 with 24 points.
I always look back to his 21-22 season. Very decisive, gets his players involved, and shoots the 3 when open.

These 2 games I don’t think he’s the problem when I saw most of this season forcing too much. We got other things to worry about offensively and game plan. When Donovan is out, our offense especially with LeVert became too much dribbling and not passing. You don’t see the split assists by multiple players. Our offense is totally different. That needs to be fixed.
This is an unscientific gut feeling, but even when Garland plays well I don’t see a $40 million max player out there. I’m wondering when I’ve ever seen a dominant performance from him where he takes the game in hand and wills the team to victory. Game 2 against the Knicks? Even there I feel like the secret sauce was Mitchell setting him (and half the team) up
I'll try.

That's a pretty pedestrian night for a max contract guy, especially when the team's top star is out. Don't get me wrong -- those aren't terrible numbers. They're good. But they're not great. They're not superstar numbers. Let's not pretend that this was going to be a candidate for one of the top individual efforts of the night in the NBA.

More than the numbers themselves, it's how he got to them. Garland pounds the rock, then pounds the rock, then pounds it some more. It's not the prettiest brand of basketball -- kinda reminiscent of LeIso -- and it's not overly effective. Before you know it, he still has the ball with the shot clock in single digits. And then the best/only offensive option is spray and pray. The ball's not going to find the open guy thanks to an extra pass if the passes never start in the first place.

I also think you're forgetting how impotent Garland looked for the majority of the game. He was almost completely shut down by Suggs until Suggs got KO'd by some friendly fire midway through the third quarter (when Suggs went down, Garland had just 3 points). Garland's not big enough to impose his will on defenders. He's definitely quick enough that he can often get past them to the rim. But he is always going to be bothered by any opponent with some size, and we saw that last night, with Suggs and Harris giving Garland fits.

Speaking of defense, boxscores usually come up lacking on that side of the ball. Garland's defensive effort dial appeared (at least to my amateur eye) to be pegged to its usual setting of "inconsistent." (Echoing a point that you raised in your piece from earlier this week.)

Since you brought up the 1/22 game (which is the most instructive comparison, both being the most recent game and the only one since the DG/Mobley injuries drove the Cavs to the more pace-and-space-oriented game that led to them winning 18 of 20), let's take a closer look at that contest. Mitchell had a pretty similar night (though a bit better) to the line that Garland put up last night -- 25 points, 9 of 19 from the field, 3 of 8 from deep, 13 assists. But the key is that the ball was moving all night. It led to 38 three-point attempts (almost double the 22 attempts from deep that the Cavs had last night). You're just not going to get many three-point attempts when the rest of the team is watching Darius pound the rock, waiting for the drive into the lane (and often into double or triple coverage).

Others here have pointed out "but but but the defense was taking away what Darius likes to do!", as though it is some kind of amazing observation. Well, shit, isn't that their fucking job? A good opponent will force you to reach into your bag of tricks and prove that you're more than a one- or two-trick pony. It's up to Darius to add a new move or wrinkle to his game. Opponents know very well that he'll drive around the pick and look for the lob to one of the bigs.

End of the day, you're looking at the numbers, and asking why the complaints are justified. We're looking at the actual game, and asking why they aren't.

Final point: despite the past seven or eight paragraphs, I don't want to come off as a Darius hater. The best outcome for this team is that he figures out a couple of these issues (seriously, dude, if you're behind the arc and have the ball, you're open - let it fly) and gets back on that All-Star track that he was on a couple of seasons ago. I don't want to seriously ponder trading him at this point (besides, it will be months before that's a possibility, and there are a lot of currently face-down cards that we need to see first -- how the team does the rest of this season, how they fare in the playoffs, does Mitchell re-sign here or request a trade). Go see @Alec if you want that.

But I can't ignore the season and a half of Garland and Mitchell not elevating each other's games. I can't ignore the 15-4 spree the team went on while Darius was out with the broken jaw, or the 10-2 record they had without him last season. I can't pretend that the offense looks better with him, as opposed to the DM+big+shooters lineup.

Can you help me match up what I've (we've) been seeing with the idea that Garland isn't a concern?
Perfectly stated; unfortunately you’re preaching to several people that don’t understand the intricacies of basketball and see things similarly. What’s the expression….thats what makes horse races…and that’s why some people make money gambling and in the stock market while others lose. I’ve given up trying to defend my opinion.

And it’s not like I’m professing that I know precisely what to do either; I’m just certain that some of those people don’t … :cool:

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