Dean the Dream Wade

[Comeback kid]

If I’m understanding your complaints about minutes correctly, you are saying Wade isn’t getting more time because of Niang getting paid more $$$.

If that’s the case, should more of your frustration be pointed at Management Gansey/Altman than JBB?

Coaches don’t sign or negotiate contracts. So if $$$ if money is the motivation for playing time decisions, that would seem to come from management.

Actually my only frustration with Koby is why in the world would you pass up two great opportunities to trade him the last 2 years for a couple draft choices and cash if he isn’t going to play?

 

[Prime 1978]

Actually my only frustration with Koby is why in the world would you pass up two great opportunities to trade him the last 2 years for a couple draft choices and cash if he isn’t going to play?

That would be dumb for Koby. You have a cheap rotational player. Why give him up for scraps?

But I get it, you aren’t a Cavs fan. It’s just about Wade playing. Understood.

 

[Comeback kid]

That would be dumb for Koby. You have a cheap rotational player. Why give him up for scraps?

But I get it, you aren’t a Cavs fan. It’s just about Wade playing. Understood.

Agreed. How would you feel if that was someone like your son?? It's more like a cheap insurance policy. But it's a business... I understand. And then you see somebody like Royce O'Neale who was a 2nd choice for the Suns getting about 30 minutes a night since the trade..... it's like a tad bit frustrating.

 

[Smooth]

Yes, if there’s one analytic JB Bickerstaff follows it’s player contracts..

 

[Prime 1978]

Agreed. How would you feel if that was someone like your son?? It's more like a cheap insurance policy. But it's a business... I understand. And then you see somebody like Royce O'Neale who was a 2nd choice for the Suns getting about 30 minutes a night since the trade..... it's like a tad bit frustrating.

I liked the post because of your honesty.
I’d like Wade trade roles with Niang.
Play Niang a few minutes and if his shot is off he doesn’t see the court in the second half.

Niang provides nothing when his shot is off. Wade consistently plays good defense so even if his shot is off, he’s still contributing.

With all that said, as a Cavs fan, trading Wade for scraps would piss me off.

Also, there should be a little love for the Cavs from you… They gave him a chance, no one else did. They also made him a wealthy man (compared to people working 9–5s).

 

[Comeback kid]

You might want to make a list and see how dead on accurate it is! It’s a business. Guess what? They tell you that from day one. Don’t take it personal boys. It’s a business.

I liked the post because of your honesty.
I’d like Wade trade roles with Niang.
Play Niang a few minutes and if his shot is off he doesn’t see the court in the second half.

Niang provides nothing when his shot is off. Wade consistently plays good defense so even if his shot is off, he’s still contributing.

With all that said, as a Cavs fan, trading Wade for scraps would piss me off.

Also, there should be a little love for the Cavs from you… They gave him a chance, no one else did. They also made him a wealthy man (compared to people working 9–5s).

I’ve said that before. I appreciate the 2 way contract and the chance. But after 4 1/2 years it should be somewhat based on merit. Even in a business.

 

[B Mac]

Yes, if there’s one analytic JB Bickerstaff follows it’s player contracts..

The most glaringly obvious argument against $$$ equaling playing time is when Love was benched a little over a year ago. Not too long before that, Drummond got benched when he was making a ton of $$$.

There are actually countless examples around the entire association where this is the case.

 

[Comeback kid]

The most glaringly obvious argument against $$$ equaling playing time is when Love was benched a little over a year ago. Not too long before that, Drummond got benched when he was making a ton of $$$.

There are actually countless examples around the entire association where this is the case.

Guess what? If you are benched with a big contract…. You are GONEZO!!!!!! Soon. The death knell.

 

[ChicagoCavFan]

Something seems afoot. Of those top 10, only 3 teams represented, and 5 of them are from Minny.

 

[Prime 1978]

You might want to make a list and see how dead on accurate it is! It’s a business. Guess what? They tell you that from day one. Don’t take it personal boys. It’s a business.

I’ve said that before. I appreciate the 2 way contract and the chance. But after 4 1/2 years it should be somewhat based on merit. Even in a business.

It’s tough following watching how your post have made Dean so polarizing.
I empathize with where you are coming from I really do. But it’s tough to watch how your strong and sometimes inflated value of what Wade can do turn some people against Wade.

Early in this thread you can see where many people saw him as our answer to the SF position after Lauri was traded.

As for the business thing, I get it. Earl Boykins was in between teams and playing for my brother’s team rec team.
Dudes in the gym were saying the Cavs should’ve played him more when he was with them a few years earlier. He said the coach couldn’t because the drafted Bevin Knight in the first round and that would’ve made Jim Paxson look bad. So trust me I get it.

Side note: Earl Boykins scored 50 that game all on jump shots. A guy that was 6’4 tried to back him down and couldn’t move him. It was the game before the rec league’s playoffs and a few days later Boykins signed with Golden State. My brother was pissed! Lol (The league was either at Thurgood Marshall rec center or Grovewood Salvation army I forget which one. I’ve seen him play in both)

 

[2 For The Brew]

Yes, if there’s one analytic JB Bickerstaff follows it’s player contracts..

Why would a coach who is ultimately evaluated on W/L give a rat fuck about player contracts?

Because his bosses do. A coach wouldn’t give a shit.

Steve Kerr has enough juice and support of his bosses to sit $43 mil Klay down and tell him his ass was coming off the bench. Klay read a contrite statement after his bullshit hissy fit foul late in a game because he was mad.

Pat Riley told LeBron to go F himself when the latter went over Spo’s head.

Not every NBA coach has that kind of juice & support. We heard about one instance where JBB wanted to start Ice over Bull and he was talked out of it. How much was honest agreement from JBB vs somebody giving an order we’ll never know because we’re not privy to discussions at that level. Nor would players, media, assistant coaches or anybody else. Those conversations are confidential because every coach knows if he embarrasses his bosses that will get noticed by every other boss in a position to hire across the NBA.

What we do know from published books (“Falling From Grace” by Terry Pluto is one example) that conflicts between coaches and GMs are quite common because coaches are at risk of firing sooner rather than later due to W / L and GMs are worried about how their personnel decisions look to the owner.

The current rotation is fairly well set and it’s clear Dean and Sam have lost the most minutes.

Who made that decision? 100% JBB, 100% Koby or something in between? My guess is it’s probably more JBB but I don’t know of course.

Why? I don’t know that either but here are possible reasons:

- Niang and Vert make more than Dean and Sam.

- Niang and Vert are regarded as better prospects from playoff success than Dean and Sam due to experience and in Vert’s case a bit more of a complete player.

I just don’t buy the $$$$$$ argument. I think both JBB and Koby are BOTH on warm seats and their way to chilled seats is the same: playoff success. I don’t think Dan is really going to care much if Niang and Vert were benched in favor of Sam and Dean and that decision results in better playoff success. (Of course there’s no way of knowing which way is superior because you can’t go in both directions in a playoff series UNLESS minutes are adjusted during the season a la Iggy). What we DO know is JBB has always been pro-ICE but benched him in play in or playoff games.

I think the team has decided they can rely on Vert more than Sam for this season’s playoffs (I agree with this). I think they’ve made the same determination on Niang vs Wade (I’m not sure about this; Niang is the better scorer BUT his shot has been off this season and of course there’s a massive difference on defense).

So I think the rotation has been set because the team believes that’s their best chance in the playoffs. But it’s not set in stone. Koby and JBB know if they lose a first round series as the favorite they are at Dan’s mercy (and we all know Dan isn’t afraid to change horses). I expect to see fast adjustments in the playoffs and it wouldn’t shock me if the rotation is adjusted before then. That Clippers win was no accident. That Don - Max - Ice - Dean - JA lineup kicked some serious ass for weeks.

I think Wade should get more minutes and Niang less. I’m not convinced Sam is a better option than Vert. Much will depend on matchups in the playoffs.

There’s still about a third of the season left. A lot can change in that time and we will be severely tested with the schedule.

 

[Dr No]

Minutes have everything to do with how one is shooting or playing. During the Orlando game, Dean received an outlet pass from Garland with nothing but one lone defender standing between him and the basket, instead of attempting to dribble and lay the ball in the basket or dribbling the ball back to the three point line to attempt a shot before the defender recovered, he passed the ball back to mid court, wasting a fast break opportunity. Much of the game, he looks totally lost on offense. He is way too limited offensively and there really is no excuse for his lack of shooting as his defender sags completely off of him knowing he will probably not attempt any type of shot. It is disappointing to see someone who gets paid a lot of money to play basketball not have one dribble and drive move in his arsenal.

I remember the play you are talking about. Wade made the right play, but it’s one you so rarely see in the selfish world of the modern NBA that it looked weird. He did have an open shot, but there was no path to the rim and there were only Magic player to get the rebound. So instead of taking an all or nothing 3, he swung it back to the middle where the secondary break got Allen a point blank layup. That play is an illustration of how Wade keeps leading to wins when he plays even though his stats are empty. He got neither the points nor the assist, but he made the play that led to an easy bucket.

 

[Dr No]

This thread has gone a bit off the rails.

 

[2 For The Brew]

Guess what? If you are benched with a big contract…. You are GONEZO!!!!!! Soon. The death knell.

99%. There are times when a guy like Kerr can bench Klay and get a fat freaking extension but that’s rare. I think you would agree JBB isn’t in that category. So why is it his fault Dean isn’t getting minutes?

Also, JBB DID bench Drummond who had a $28 mil (expiring) contract but clearly Koby was on board with that.

I think a BIG reason why Niang is preferred to Wade is that Georges has 654 playoff minutes over 46 games and 8 series. Dean has 11 playoff minutes in two games. This team is short on playoff experience as it is. This is why I would also expect to see more of TT in the playoffs.

I know this is hugely frustrating because how does one get playoff experience minutes if having those minutes is a qualifying metric? It’s why it’s so tough for newbies to break into a lot of opportunities. All of a sudden you’re a few years in, the opportunities haven’t been open and now you’re a not-so-newbie.

But JBB and Koby’s asses are on the line and they want guys who have been there, done that coming off the bench.

Here’s the key for Dean (and Sam) - if that opportunity comes in the playoffs you need a big game. You may only get ten minutes, not twenty - make them count. Cool off a hot scorer, bang home a few threes, grab a couple of key rebounds. Dean’s time will come. He’s improved every year. One big playoff game can make such a difference.

Matthew Dellavedova played very little in the 2016 Finals and was not a major player in our playoff runs EXCEPT he had one immortal game where he cemented his place in the Valhalla of Cavalier players. 20 points in Game 3 and couldn’t interview after the game because he was rushed to the hospital. He too was an UDFA who many thought could never make it in the NBA. That performance got big bucks from the Bucks.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Just to add some perspective, the debate here is that Wade should be 8th in the rotation instead of 9th. A slightly longer run or a second run. To me, this is an effort to get Niang in a groove with Garland and Mobley. I agree it's up to Wade to take those minutes when he's on the floor, and not by a negligible measure.