Dean the Dream Wade

[Dr No]

99%. There are times when a guy like Kerr can bench Klay and get a fat freaking extension but that’s rare. I think you would agree JBB isn’t in that category. So why is it his fault Dean isn’t getting minutes?

Also, JBB DID bench Drummond who had a $28 mil (expiring) contract but clearly Koby was on board with that.

I think a BIG reason why Niang is preferred to Wade is that Georges has 654 playoff minutes over 46 games and 8 series. Dean has 11 playoff minutes in two games. This team is short on playoff experience as it is. This is why I would also expect to see more of TT in the playoffs.

I know this is hugely frustrating because how does one get playoff experience minutes if having those minutes is a qualifying metric? It’s why it’s so tough for newbies to break into a lot of opportunities. All of a sudden you’re a few years in, the opportunities haven’t been open and now you’re a not-so-newbie.

But JBB and Koby’s asses are on the line and they want guys who have been there, done that coming off the bench.

Here’s the key for Dean (and Sam) - if that opportunity comes in the playoffs you need a big game. You may only get ten minutes, not twenty - make them count. Cool off a hot scorer, bang home a few threes, grab a couple of key rebounds. Dean’s time will come. He’s improved every year. One big playoff game can make such a difference.

Matthew Dellavedova played very little in the 2016 Finals and was not a major player in our playoff runs EXCEPT he had one immortal game where he cemented his place in the Valhalla of Cavalier players. 20 points in Game 3 and couldn’t interview after the game because he was rushed to the hospital. He too was an UDFA who many thought could never make it in the NBA. That performance got big bucks from the Bucks.

I think this is a smart post. I get coach’s frustration. Dean is better than the minutes and role he’s currently getting and the business side of sports is showing. It has to be hard to watch a guy you have a personal relationship with not get the chance to play in the prime of his career when he has proven his worth and has apparently had other teams see his worth and want him on their roster. But I have to assume JBB and Koby kept him for a reason, and the coaching staff knows what he did and can do for us. I wonder if there is a little bit of “let’s keep Dean healthy for when we need him in the playoffs and let Niang play now to keep him and his agent happy”. Now, if Dean gets plastered to the bench in the playoffs while we sit and watch Niang get exposed and the whole offense once again stalls because Mobley can’t stretch the floor, then Dean’s agent needs to try and get Dean out of Cleveland this offseason. But we are a long way from that.

 

[Comeback kid]

99%. There are times when a guy like Kerr can bench Klay and get a fat freaking extension but that’s rare. I think you would agree JBB isn’t in that category. So why is it his fault Dean isn’t getting minutes?

Also, JBB DID bench Drummond who had a $28 mil (expiring) contract but clearly Koby was on board with that.

I think a BIG reason why Niang is preferred to Wade is that Georges has 654 playoff minutes over 46 games and 8 series. Dean has 11 playoff minutes in two games. This team is short on playoff experience as it is. This is why I would also expect to see more of TT in the playoffs.

I know this is hugely frustrating because how does one get playoff experience minutes if having those minutes is a qualifying metric? It’s why it’s so tough for newbies to break into a lot of opportunities. All of a sudden you’re a few years in, the opportunities haven’t been open and now you’re a not-so-newbie.

But JBB and Koby’s asses are on the line and they want guys who have been there, done that coming off the bench.

Here’s the key for Dean (and Sam) - if that opportunity comes in the playoffs you need a big game. You may only get ten minutes, not twenty - make them count. Cool off a hot scorer, bang home a few threes, grab a couple of key rebounds. Dean’s time will come. He’s improved every year. One big playoff game can make such a difference.

Matthew Dellavedova played very little in the 2016 Finals and was not a major player in our playoff runs EXCEPT he had one immortal game where he cemented his place in the Valhalla of Cavalier players. 20 points in Game 3 and couldn’t interview after the game because he was rushed to the hospital. He too was an UDFA who many thought could never make it in the NBA. That performance got big bucks from the Bucks.

Good thought out response. May not totally agree but reasonable.

 

[adam81king]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Kevin Love making $27+M when he was benched, then paid to go away, in order for $5M Dean Wade to play more? Isn't that evidence that $$$ doesn't play a role? It should definitely show that it's not the BIGGEST factor.

Also, I understand being frustrated by rotations/minutes/etc, but when the TEAM is having pretty great success, I understand the continued bitching a lot less. Ask questions, forecast when tougher challenges (the playoffs), etc...but, again, this team has the second best record in the entire NBA since mid-December. Are we really mad about guys not playing an extra 5-10min when they're winning basketball games? As frustrated as you may be with JBB, whatever he's doing seems to be working for now.

 

[Comeback kid]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Kevin Love making $27+M when he was benched, then paid to go away, in order for $5M Dean Wade to play more? Isn't that evidence that $$$ doesn't play a role? It should definitely show that it's not the BIGGEST factor.

Also, I understand being frustrated by rotations/minutes/etc, but when the TEAM is having pretty great success, I understand the continued bitching a lot less. Ask questions, forecast when tougher challenges (the playoffs), etc...but, again, this team has the second best record in the entire NBA since mid-December. Are we really mad about guys not playing an extra 5-10min when they're winning basketball games? As frustrated as you may be with JBB, whatever he's doing seems to be working for now.

Reasonable post. Question… did Dean play more after Kevin was released? Answer…. Yes he did for 9 games and shot 40.6% and then minutes were radically diminished.

2nd question? Were we winning more before Dean’s 2 game flu absence and previous 20 games and then subsequent loss of minutes? Or now?

 

[2 For The Brew]

Yesterday’s game was only the second time Dean got less than 10 minutes. There was a game very early in the season where the current top 8 were healthy and Dean / TT got about three minutes each. So the frustration with Dean’s lack of minutes is a legitimate issue.

@Randolphkeys pointed out that Niang / Wade are battling for 8th / 9th. In the playoffs 8 or even 7 man rotations are common so it’s a big deal.

If you are the 8th / 9th man in the playoffs you’re not going to get 20 minutes every night. You might get 10-15. I agree with comments that Dean plays better at 20-25 minutes and I’d like to see him get that in the regular season but in the playoffs that’s highly unlikely. It’s up to Dean to make the most of whatever minutes he does get (which he’s been doing of late). He has career highs in 3PA and 3pt% per 36 minutes & per 100 possessions.

 

[The Oi]

@Comeback kid why do you believe Dean specifically gets jerked around?

 

[Randolphkeys]

@Randolphkeys pointed out that Niang / Wade are battling for 8th / 9th. In the playoffs 8 or even 7 man rotations are common so it’s a big deal.

While I agree with almost everything you have been writing in this thread in the past day... is it really a big deal? This is game 58 of the regular season against a bottom five team.

I see plenty of posts elsewhere wondering when Garland will bounce back. What better time for the real priority to get accomplished than against the Wizards?

I know comeback kid and a few regulars are already delving into this... coaching with purpose. If the coach's purpose is to develop Dean Wade, then I see reason for the spite.

If the goal is to try and get the expected veterans playoff ready, I have no issues with how eight or so big man minutes were distributed against the Wizards in a winning game, #58 of the season. Garland took a step forward, as did LeVert. Many team goals were in fact accomplished.

 

[2 For The Brew]

While I agree with almost everything you have been writing in this thread in the past day... is it really a big deal? This is game 58 of the regular season against a bottom five team.

I see plenty of posts elsewhere wondering when Garland will bounce back. What better time for the real priority to get accomplished than against the Wizards?

I know comeback kid and a few regulars are already delving into this... coaching with purpose. If the coach's purpose is to develop Dean Wade, then I see reason for the spite.

If the goal is to try and get the expected veterans playoff ready, I have no issues with how eight or so big man minutes were distributed against the Wizards in a winning game, #58 of the season. Garland took a step forward, as did LeVert. Many team goals were in fact accomplished.

It’s not a big deal for today. My comment on the 8th / 9th was for the playoff rotation, which may be impacted by performance over the rest of the season. I think Niang’s greater playoff experience will mean he’ll be above Dean for minutes unless something significant happens the rest of the regular season.

I think the Cavaliers front office and coaches would love to get Wade more minutes & have CPJ be the backup point guard but as I said upthread they’re all rightfully under pressure for the upcoming playoffs and the veterans who will be relied on must get priority over developing the kids, particularly since due to injuries our top 8 as a group are not close to being ready.

 

[Comeback kid]

@Comeback kid why do you believe Dean specifically gets jerked around?

Garland 32.2 mpg. 34 Million$ salary
Mitchell 35.5 mpg. 33.16 million
Allen 31. mpg. 20 million
LeVert 27.4 mpg. 15.3 million (headed up)
Strus. 32 mpg. 14.5 million (headed down)
Mobley. 31.1 mpg. 8.9 million
Okoro 26.2 mpg. 8.9 million
Niang. 21.5 mpg. 8.8 million
Wade 20.5 mpg. 5.7 million
Merrill 15.2 mpg. 2.0 million
Porter 14.1. mpg. 1.5 million

I won’t call it jerked around. I will just call it a business decision to avoid embarrassment and need for explanation. From the owner down to the coaches. Does anybody notice any pattern here?? LOL It’s $$$ like I’ve noted too many times for ages. And as the season goes along and assuming no major injuries the minutes will line up even more with the $$$$.

 

[Sebastian]

This thread has gone a bit off the rails.

Yes it has.

People are forgetting that just because someone disagrees with another person's opinion that it is not a blank check to troll.

I just deleted a bunch of shit-posts.

If I have to come back into this thread to clean it up again I am going to start assessing Warnings, or more, to any posters trying to incite conflict.

 

[2 For The Brew]

Garland 32.2 mpg. 34 Million$ salary
Mitchell 35.5 mpg. 33.16 million
Allen 31. mpg. 20 million
LeVert 27.4 mpg. 15.3 million (headed up)
Strus. 32 mpg. 14.5 million (headed down)
Mobley. 31.1 mpg. 8.9 million
Okoro 26.2 mpg. 8.9 million
Niang. 21.5 mpg. 8.8 million
Wade 20.5 mpg. 5.7 million
Merrill 15.2 mpg. 2.0 million
Porter 14.1. mpg. 1.5 million

I won’t call it jerked around. I will just call it a business decision to avoid embarrassment and need for explanation. From the owner down to the coaches. Does anybody notice any pattern here?? LOL It’s $$$ like I’ve noted too many times for ages. And as the season goes along and assuming no major injuries the minutes will line up even more with the $$$$.

Koby Altman:

- extended Kevin Porter Jr and got rid of him weeks later after the locker move meltdown incident. Koby took a ton of crap for that but it was the right move.

- sent JR Smith home when he was making $13 mil or so because he was a distraction and threw chicken tortilla soup at Coach Damon Jones. Fans were pissed about that too.

- got rid of the highest priced player in the team (Andre Drummond) after sending him home. Ate the bulk of his 28m Salary. People here were furious Koby didn’t turn his expiring contract into an asset.

- dumped Kevin Love and his $29 mil salary (highest salary on the team, at the time the largest contract in team history) to make room for the “Kevin Love with defense” guy. Love subsequently played in the NBA Finals. I’d say that was embarrassing. There were a lot of complaints we got rid of a guy who could have helped vs NYK. Not getting value for the expiring contract was less of an issue because it’s become obvious that isn’t the asset it was a few years ago.

The reason guys with higher salaries tend to get more minutes is that they are generally better than guys with lower salaries. That’s not always the case where players are under rookie contracts but everybody else has a contract set under market conditions.

Mitchell is a perennial all star. Garland was an all star at 22. Allen was an all star. Strus has been to the NBA Finals. LeVert is a veteran who’s started or been sixth man his whole career. They all are better than Niang or Wade. Everyone else is under a rookie contract which is set by draft position.

The “business decision” part is deciding what to offer free agents or extension-eligible players, not using salaries to determine rotations. High priced players who declined are benched. It’s happened here and elsewhere.

GMs are embarrassed all the time. The good ones cut their losses and don’t let a mistake do more damage by keeping a disgruntled player around. You think not playing a declining player is embarrassing? Playing one who hurts your W / L record is a much bigger embarrassment.

 

[Comeback kid]

Not playing a player a good number of minutes (that’s making a ton of money or at least has a big reputation) is embarrassing. So if he’s marginal at best he’ll play like he’s paid. If he gets totally unplayable he’s gone…. not left on the team.

Now whether Drummond or Love WAS unplayable is certainly up for debate. I.e. they’re not done yet. But JB had certainly made the decision they were unplayable. He wasn’t going to give them 5-10 minutes a night because that was embarrassing. They either were going to play the minutes expected of their salary…. Or be gone.

 

[Jscc]

I think this is a smart post. I get coach’s frustration. Dean is better than the minutes and role he’s currently getting and the business side of sports is showing. It has to be hard to watch a guy you have a personal relationship with not get the chance to play in the prime of his career when he has proven his worth and has apparently had other teams see his worth and want him on their roster. But I have to assume JBB and Koby kept him for a reason, and the coaching staff knows what he did and can do for us. I wonder if there is a little bit of “let’s keep Dean healthy for when we need him in the playoffs and let Niang play now to keep him and his agent happy”. Now, if Dean gets plastered to the bench in the playoffs while we sit and watch Niang get exposed and the whole offense once again stalls because Mobley can’t stretch the floor, then Dean’s agent needs to try and get Dean out of Cleveland this offseason. But we are a long way from that.

If this happens, Dean shouldn't be the only guy wanting out unless they fire JBB and convince guys like Mitchell that they have learned. Once is fine. First year, new team etc., But twice is no bueno imo. And frankly, Mitchell going into next season being 28 years old is going to make that very difficult.

JBB's job will be determined by how much he utilizes the spacers he has been given imo. If LeVert or Okoro start bricking 3s while guys like Merrill are confined to the bench then they can't bring him back and they better hope Mitchell is still open to being here. We saw how LeBron treated guys that couldn't shoot or space. They either got benched or cut. He would've gotten JBB fired by now.

 

[2 For The Brew]

Not playing a player a good number of minutes (that’s making a ton of money or at least has a big reputation) is embarrassing. So if he’s marginal at best he’ll play like he’s paid. If he gets totally unplayable he’s gone…. not left on the team.

Now whether Drummond or Love WAS unplayable is certainly up for debate. I.e. they’re not done yet. But JB had certainly made the decision they were unplayable. He wasn’t going to give them 5-10 minutes a night because that was embarrassing. They either were going to play the minutes expected of their salary…. Or be gone.

Until we extended Garland the two largest contracts in team history were both signed by Kevin. The team moved him to the bench in 2021-22 and cut his minutes from >30 to 20-24. He had a fantastic season and would have won 6moy except for Herro who lead his team in minutes played but came off the bench.

The following year he got injured and then was benched. He wanted minutes and asked out. Team accommodated him and he got minutes elsewhere, then gave Strus a favorable Cleveland reference.

I was one of those who was surprised we dumped him and highly critical during Miami's run but in retrospect it was the correct decision.

Drummond was clearly not the answer.

In Dean's case he's absolutely good enough for 20-25 minutes off the bench. Unfortunately he's caught in a logjam. If I was his friend or parent or coach I'd be pissed off.

I strongly suspect that the current logjam will adjust after this season. We have to pay Allen, Mobley and Okoro this offseason or next. Doubt we keep Levert. Dean is valuable because he's a legit rotation player with a low contract. He'll either remain here with some of the players ahead of him moved OR he'll be part of a package going forward. It would be a waste for him to be unused into next season.

Windy pointed out his key role during the ESPN Chicago game two weeks ago. NBA community is well aware of him and his stellar advanced stats. There's no way Koby is unaware.

He's way too good to get < 10 mpg and should get at least 15; 20 would be better.

 

[Comeback kid]

Until we extended Garland the two largest contracts in team history were both signed by Kevin. The team moved him to the bench in 2021-22 and cut his minutes from >30 to 20-24. He had a fantastic season and would have won 6moy except for Herro who lead his team in minutes played but came off the bench.

The following year he got injured and then was benched. He wanted minutes and asked out. Team accommodated him and he got minutes elsewhere, then gave Strus a favorable Cleveland reference.

I was one of those who was surprised we dumped him and highly critical during Miami's run but in retrospect it was the correct decision.

Drummond was clearly not the answer.

In Dean's case he's absolutely good enough for 20-25 minutes off the bench. Unfortunately he's caught in a logjam. If I was his friend or parent or coach I'd be pissed off.

I strongly suspect that the current logjam will adjust after this season. We have to pay Allen, Mobley and Okoro this offseason or next. Doubt we keep Levert. Dean is valuable because he's a legit rotation player with a low contract. He'll either remain here with some of the players ahead of him moved OR he'll be part of a package going forward. It would be a waste for him to be unused into next season.

Windy pointed out his key role during the ESPN Chicago game two weeks ago. NBA community is well aware of him and his stellar advanced stats. There's no way Koby is unaware.

He's way too good to get < 10 mpg and should get at least 15; 20 would be better.

Good post and I certainly agree with your thoughts on Dean but unfortunately I just don’t get the vibe that it’s ever going to happen under JB. I hope I’m wrong... but fear I’m not. It’s just been the same scenario repeated over and over for 4 years. He’ll give Dean a little short run and then jerk it away. Same song…. Second verse.