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Dean the Dream Wade

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Who is the best undrafted Cavs player ever?

  • Jose Calderon

    Votes: 4 3.4%
  • Earl Boykins

    Votes: 9 7.6%
  • Kevin Ollie

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Matthew Dellavedova

    Votes: 63 53.4%
  • Smush Parker

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Scott Williams

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Chris Anderson

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • David Wesley

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ben Wallace

    Votes: 33 28.0%
  • HOrnyforDean!

    Votes: 7 5.9%

  • Total voters
    118
Good post and I certainly agree with your thoughts on Dean but unfortunately I just don’t get the vibe that it’s ever going to happen under JB. I hope I’m wrong... but fear I’m not. It’s just been the same scenario repeated over and over for 4 years. He’ll give Dean a little short run and then jerk it away. Same song…. Second verse.

It may never happen under JB but I do hope that if and when Dean gets a shot in the playoffs he makes it count. That would raise his profile around the NBA.

I’ve been an NBA fan for a very long time and the one constant over the decades is that coaches value experience, especially during the playoffs. Talented young people are often stalled behind more experienced people and that’s not unique to professional basketball. Niang is NOT a long term answer for this team so I’m hoping for Wade to kick some ass in the playoffs.

One reason Strus and Niang were signed is that Dean and Ice did not have strong playoff performances and both have been too low usage and lower scoring to provide enough gravity. Both have improved this year; both need to further improve volume (% is good and getting better) which of course is affected by the team around them. I expect both to be rotation players and make a lot more money in years to come, hopefully here.
 
I mean, sure Niang makes more than Dean, but it's not a huge margin more, not enough to account for the extra minutes, in my opinion. I mean, with guys on the team making 30+ million, the 3 million difference seems pretty negligible.

I can assume Niang is much more vocal and aggressive than Dean, and the rest of the team must respond to him more, fair or not. Dean doesn't come off as a guy that gets the team going when they just got punched in the mouth, that is George's super power, I don't think anything gets that dude down really. He just makes you want to fight harder. And well, I mean, what coach doesn't like that? It sounds like too, in the pre-season George was getting on Dean for being passive, telling him to start launching 3s and not hesitate. Niang also doesn't seem to be on any illusion that he's a superstar, he seems to accept his role for the most part.

I guess my point is, if Dean acted like Niang, I think he would play more, in my opinion it has little to do with the money differences.

I also believe that Dean should get basically all of Niang's minutes, but I'm trying to be open minded to why Niang gets the minutes he does.
 
Garland 32.2 mpg. 34 Million$ salary
Mitchell 35.5 mpg. 33.16 million
Allen 31. mpg. 20 million
LeVert 27.4 mpg. 15.3 million (headed up)
Strus. 32 mpg. 14.5 million (headed down)
Mobley. 31.1 mpg. 8.9 million
Okoro 26.2 mpg. 8.9 million
Niang. 21.5 mpg. 8.8 million
Wade 20.5 mpg. 5.7 million
Merrill 15.2 mpg. 2.0 million
Porter 14.1. mpg. 1.5 million

I won’t call it jerked around. I will just call it a business decision to avoid embarrassment and need for explanation. From the owner down to the coaches. Does anybody notice any pattern here?? LOL It’s $$$ like I’ve noted too many times for ages. And as the season goes along and assuming no major injuries the minutes will line up even more with the $$$$.
I'm not going to do the work, but I bet you would see a similar pattern with every other NBA team. You gotta give up this $$$$ thing CK. Its such a weak argument, and in my opinion hurts your credibility.

Fact is, Dean is one of about 6-7 guys fighting for playing time. JBB has said from the jump that he'll be tinkering with lineups all season. Therefore, there will be times when Dean gets extended run, and times he does not.

Dean is the perfect match-up player, in that he brings things to this team that no one else on the bench can. That will be valuable when needed. He is NOT a Starter - give that up. Bench players must be swiss army knives, and Dean is just that. His role is what it is, and its frankly perfect for the Cavs.
 
Niang got a three-year deal for $25.5 million. The Cavs' front office made a big commitment. They want it to be a success. For that to happen Georges needs to play regular minutes. Now that Mobley is back it's between Niang and Wade for the backup minutes. So Wade's minutes are going to decrease.

I think JBB is playing Niang in hopes he'll get comfortable with his new team and his play will improve, specifically his shooting. Niang is never going to be a good defender so he needs to be a deadly 3-point shooter. He is, kind of.

Niang is hitting 39% of his non-corner 3's, which is good enough. The problem is he's hitting just 31% of his corner 3's, which are easier to make. Last year he made 52% from the corner and in previous years he's never been below 37%.

We're stuck with Niang for two more years, so I think they are doing everything they can to get him acclimated to the team and playing his best basketball. I don't think Wade has anything to do with it. They know what they have in Dean and he is playing very well.

Come the playoffs I expect Wade will be in the rotation and Niang will not, unless he starts hitting those corner 3's at about a 50% rate. His offense needs to make up for his lack of defense.

As for Wade, I'm frustrated at his fear of attacking the rim. Last week he had a wide open lane to the rim, or he could have simply taken an open 15-foot jumper. But he quickly passed off. He wants nothing to do with driving to the rim or even shooting an open jump shot from the elbow. It's like he's been ordered to play defense, rebound, and shoot open 3's - but nothing else. He needs to take it to the hole when nobody is in front of him and go for the dunk or take the foul.

He needs a little Lamar Stevens in him. It's like he shies away from contact. Maybe he's worried about another shoulder injury.
 
Niang got a three-year deal for $25.5 million. The Cavs' front office made a big commitment. They want it to be a success. For that to happen Georges needs to play regular minutes. Now that Mobley is back it's between Niang and Wade for the backup minutes. So Wade's minutes are going to decrease.

I think JBB is playing Niang in hopes he'll get comfortable with his new team and his play will improve, specifically his shooting. Niang is never going to be a good defender so he needs to be a deadly 3-point shooter. He is, kind of.

Niang is hitting 39% of his non-corner 3's, which is good enough. The problem is he's hitting just 31% of his corner 3's, which are easier to make. Last year he made 52% from the corner and in previous years he's never been below 37%.

We're stuck with Niang for two more years, so I think they are doing everything they can to get him acclimated to the team and playing his best basketball. I don't think Wade has anything to do with it. They know what they have in Dean and he is playing very well.

Come the playoffs I expect Wade will be in the rotation and Niang will not, unless he starts hitting those corner 3's at about a 50% rate. His offense needs to make up for his lack of defense.

As for Wade, I'm frustrated at his fear of attacking the rim. Last week he had a wide open lane to the rim, or he could have simply taken an open 15-foot jumper. But he quickly passed off. He wants nothing to do with driving to the rim or even shooting an open jump shot from the elbow. It's like he's been ordered to play defense, rebound, and shoot open 3's - but nothing else. He needs to take it to the hole when nobody is in front of him and go for the dunk or take the foul.

He needs a little Lamar Stevens in him. It's like he shies away from contact. Maybe he's worried about another shoulder injury.

What he’s worried about he’s been told for 4 years not to do that. Just a fact…..You will notice every year he’s shooting more and more 3’s. He does what he’s told to do. Period
 
What he’s worried about he’s been told for 4 years not to do that. Just a fact…..You will notice every year he’s shooting more and more 3’s. He does what he’s told to do. Period

In Hollywood they call it “typecasting”. He’s good at a certain role so that’s the role he gets. It did get him a second contract. It does NOT mean he can’t be successful in other roles but it’s always a risk asking someone to play a role that’s unproven.

Most in Hollywood said Oliver Stone erred casting Michael Douglas as Gordon Gekko due to Douglas’ perceived limitations as an actor and he ended up winning an Oscar for the performance.

Ironically Niang has said the Cavaliers have asked him to do more. In Philly he was strictly a spot up three point shooter. Here he puts the ball on the floor and drives for buckets which are both reasonably successful and usually hilarious.

So maybe Wade gets more freedom later on to see what else he can do.
 
I'm not going to do the work, but I bet you would see a similar pattern with every other NBA team. You gotta give up this $$$$ thing CK. Its such a weak argument, and in my opinion hurts your credibility.

Fact is, Dean is one of about 6-7 guys fighting for playing time. JBB has said from the jump that he'll be tinkering with lineups all season. Therefore, there will be times when Dean gets extended run, and times he does not.

Dean is the perfect match-up player, in that he brings things to this team that no one else on the bench can. That will be valuable when needed. He is NOT a Starter - give that up. Bench players must be swiss army knives, and Dean is just that. His role is what it is, and its frankly perfect for the Cavs.

Give it up? Pretty much everybody including what you said about the other teams proves it’s true. It’s the facts. It’s the NBA and it’s a business.
 
Give it up? Pretty much everybody including what you said about the other teams proves it’s true. It’s the facts. It’s the NBA and it’s a business.
Of course its a business. So is every other professional sports league worldwide, including collegiate athletics. Doesn't mean your reasoning is sound.
 
Niang got a three-year deal for $25.5 million. The Cavs' front office made a big commitment. They want it to be a success. For that to happen Georges needs to play regular minutes. Now that Mobley is back it's between Niang and Wade for the backup minutes. So Wade's minutes are going to decrease.

I think JBB is playing Niang in hopes he'll get comfortable with his new team and his play will improve, specifically his shooting. Niang is never going to be a good defender so he needs to be a deadly 3-point shooter. He is, kind of.

Niang is hitting 39% of his non-corner 3's, which is good enough. The problem is he's hitting just 31% of his corner 3's, which are easier to make. Last year he made 52% from the corner and in previous years he's never been below 37%.

We're stuck with Niang for two more years, so I think they are doing everything they can to get him acclimated to the team and playing his best basketball. I don't think Wade has anything to do with it. They know what they have in Dean and he is playing very well.

Come the playoffs I expect Wade will be in the rotation and Niang will not, unless he starts hitting those corner 3's at about a 50% rate. His offense needs to make up for his lack of defense.

As for Wade, I'm frustrated at his fear of attacking the rim. Last week he had a wide open lane to the rim, or he could have simply taken an open 15-foot jumper. But he quickly passed off. He wants nothing to do with driving to the rim or even shooting an open jump shot from the elbow. It's like he's been ordered to play defense, rebound, and shoot open 3's - but nothing else. He needs to take it to the hole when nobody is in front of him and go for the dunk or take the foul.

He needs a little Lamar Stevens in him. It's like he shies away from contact. Maybe he's worried about another shoulder injury.

I didn’t understand Niangs contract when he got it and understand it even less now. He was turning 30 and his last salary with the Sixers was $3.3 million a year. Where was the competition for his services that required more than doubling that and guaranteeing a long term contract when he will likely grow even less athletic year by year in his early 30s?

There are no perfect GMs and Koby has some real talent spotting skills, but his roster construction choices sometimes drive me crazy. Wade’s not the only promising guy Niang could block out for minutes over the next couple of years
 
What I don't understand about Wade's reduction in minutes is the lack of time at the 3. He has been perfectly fine playing the 3 throughout his career and his improved movement in space on defense just makes it more viable than ever. I know we have a lot of good slightly undersized players getting some run at SF (Levert, Strus, Merrill, Okoro) and they all need time, but Wade at 3 allows such defensive versatility without losing the floor spacer. I'm sure there is a case to be made where if can pull another 4-6 minutes a game by playing more than just backup 4 time. Hell, he can even play some 5 if we are playing a smaller team.
 
Trying to understand everyone's perspectives. Are we of the opinion that Dean Wade playing more (starters minutes?) will give the Cavaliers a better record? Make them legitimate contenders? The Cavaliers went from 22 wins, to 44 wins, to 51 wins to on pace for 54 wins this year. Do those numbers look different if Dean plays more? Do they beat the Knicks last year with more Dean?

I ask, specifically, because playing guys more, or less, without improvements in the standings or series, doesn't really matter, does it? If folks think Dean means improvements in record, then so be it, but that's why I'm asking.
 
Trying to understand everyone's perspectives. Are we of the opinion that Dean Wade playing more (starters minutes?) will give the Cavaliers a better record? Make them legitimate contenders? The Cavaliers went from 22 wins, to 44 wins, to 51 wins to on pace for 54 wins this year. Do those numbers look different if Dean plays more? Do they beat the Knicks last year with more Dean?

I ask, specifically, because playing guys more, or less, without improvements in the standings or series, doesn't really matter, does it? If folks think Dean means improvements in record, then so be it, but that's why I'm asking.
I think a healthy Dean would have been worth a couple more wins over the course of last season had we played him. I also think a healthy Wade would have been a major difference maker vs the Knicks. We desperately needed 2 things - outside shooting and rebounding. Without Wade we had no options. But he wasn’t healthy so it’s all moot. Dean isn’t a franchise changer. He’s a role player. But good role players can be the difference in key games.
 
I think a healthy Dean would have been worth a couple more wins over the course of last season had we played him. I also think a healthy Wade would have been a major difference maker vs the Knicks. We desperately needed 2 things - outside shooting and rebounding. Without Wade we had no options. But he wasn’t healthy so it’s all moot. Dean isn’t a franchise changer. He’s a role player. But good role players can be the difference in key games.
So you put Dean in the Draymond category? Role players are crucial, but rarely win playoff games.
 
So you put Dean in the Draymond category? Role players are crucial, but rarely win playoff games.
Draymond, who I can’t stand, is the ultimate role player. He was the oil for that whole machine. It would be incredible for us if Dean could come anywhere near that. But generally, the way I see non-starter role players is they often make the difference in playoff games, but it’s usually not the same role player over and over. For Example, last year, in different games for Denver, you had Green, Braun, & Brown come through and be difference makers in playoff games. Obviously, Joker was the person who won the series for them, but had the role players all laid an egg in any series, Denver isn’t the champs. So I’d say, role players don’t carry teams to playoff wins, but in close games, they are often the difference between winning and losing.
 

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