Dean the Dream Wade

Who is the best undrafted Cavs player ever?

  • Jose Calderon

    Votes: 4 3.0%

  • Earl Boykins

    Votes: 9 6.7%

  • Kevin Ollie

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • Matthew Dellavedova

    Votes: 73 54.1%

  • Smush Parker

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Scott Williams

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Chris Anderson

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • David Wesley

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Ben Wallace

    Votes: 38 28.1%

  • HOrnyforDean!

    Votes: 9 6.7%
  • Total voters
    135
BimboColesHair said:
On the flip side.

Him passing it out is why I think he needs to start. Don’t think a high volume shooter who stops the ball is the right guy for the main 4 guys.

Dean makes the right play 99% of the time, to a frustrating point where it seems like he is passive vs just making the right play, and I think that meshes better with 4 high usage starters than an unabashed 3 point shooter where the shot is going up the moment there is any daylight.
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I don't *fully* disagree, and I actually really liked Dean until his coach starting talking about how much the franchise hated him, how he's better than MVP-caliber Kevin Love and how theyd rather him be traded. That said, where I disagree with your statement, is I think the core 4 need a guy that spaces the floor more than anything. While Dean *can* space the floor, is anyone gonna stick with a guy thats a reluctant shooter if Don, DG are cooking, or JA and Evan are scoring in the post? A guy like Merrill, at least on paper, makes more sense to me than Wade. If Dean had the offensive willingness to shoot that Niang or Ice do, I think he'd be the ideal 5th starter.
 
Comeback kid said:
Where are you finding touches stats? Would love to see that. Edit: Never mind… I found it. I’ll be studying.
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Please circle back and regale us all with what you were able to unearth amongst your findings…
 
PIP said:
Please circle back and regale us all with what you were able to unearth amongst your findings…
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lol. I can set the board on fire for posting Dean making top 20 in history for 3 pointers! So I’ll probably store the info.
 
David. said:
Don't know, but are you watching him put the ball up immediately when he gets it regardless of how close the defender is to him? it's been really good
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I'm not sure the point you're trying to make, but I'd welcome Dean shooting more. I've been saying it for awhile, and suggesting it in earnest the last couple days.
 
Dean hit three consecutive 3's in just a few minutes in the first quarter.just a few games back. His reward? A trip to the bench for what I think was the rest of the half.

And this seems like it may fit the conversation too:

Sebastian: I cleaned up the Twitter embed for you.

 
7OgYaKC.jpg
 
David. said:
Does pulling down a rebound count as a touch?

Is there a stat that accounts for the type of touch they get? Being passed the ball just to swing it to an open guy isn't the same as being thrown the ball in a scoring position etc
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I don’t believe it does.

Everything I’ve read is a touch is deemed by NBA.com’s tracking service as “any time a player touches the ball in an attacking position”, so I assume defensive rebounds aren’t counted but offensive rebounds are.

Otherwise bigs would dominate the touch count more than they currently are, because outside of Jokic, Embiid, and Sabonis it’s pretty much all guards or wings in the top 75 players for touches per game.

And you can shrink it down to front court touches if you want, that’s about as far is it currently goes, but it still doesn’t deviate him from the same guys you would associate Wade with as a non-ball handling player.

Wade gets .7 front court touches per minute played.

Okoro gets .7 front court touches per minute played.

I think Okoro is the proper comparison on usage on the team as they both play essentially the same role in the set offense. Park in a corner, cut when action moves towards you, keep the ball moving, make the right play at high efficiency.

Just shows you how much more aggressive Okoro is vs Dean when he’s scoring .324 points per touch vs Dean’s team low for the regulars of .202 points per touch. And it’s apparent watching games that one has more willingness to shoot or take the ball to the rim on a hard close out for an easy layup game after game.

The previous insinuation (not made by you) that the Cavs freeze out Wade more than normal isn’t based in reality based on the tracking stats. Dean gets his touches at the same rate as the other non-ball handling wing on the team in Okoro.
 
BimboColesHair said:
I don’t believe it does.

Everything I’ve read is a touch is deemed by NBA.com’s tracking service as “any time a player touches the ball in an attacking position”, so I assume defensive rebounds aren’t counted but offensive rebounds are.

Otherwise bigs would dominate the touch count more than they currently are, because outside of Jokic, Embiid, and Sabonis it’s pretty much all guards or wings in the top 75 players for touches per game.

And you can shrink it down to front court touches if you want, that’s about as far is it currently goes, but it still doesn’t deviate him from the same guys you would associate Wade with as a non-ball handling player.

Wade gets .7 front court touches per minute played.

Okoro gets .7 front court touches per minute played.

I think Okoro is the proper comparison on usage on the team as they both play essentially the same role in the set offense. Park in a corner, cut when action moves towards you, keep the ball moving, make the right play at high efficiency.

Just shows you how much more aggressive Okoro is vs Dean when he’s scoring .324 points per touch vs Dean’s team low for the regulars of .202 points per touch. And it’s apparent watching games that one has more willingness to shoot or take the ball to the rim on a hard close out for an easy layup game after game.

The previous insinuation (not made by you) that the Cavs freeze out Wade more than normal isn’t based in reality based on the tracking stats. Dean gets his touches at the same rate as the other non-ball handling wing on the team in Okoro.
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Those 2 are lowest on the team on touches. Merrill gets 22 in 15 minutes… not 20 minutes as previously stated.
 
Comeback kid said:
Those 2 are lowest on the team on touches. Merrill gets 22 in 15 minutes… not 20 minutes as previously stated.
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Yeah misread that.

And I think in the hierarchy of who should be touching the ball and how much, that should be the order it goes for the regular rotation. Perhaps the only argument is Niang. But he’s such an unabashed shooter that I don’t think his touches matter. You could flip the touch totals for him and Wade and he’d still shoot more shots per game than Wade.

Mitchell
Garland
Allen
Mobley

Should always be your top 4 in total touches.

Strus
LeVert

Should be the next ones because one is the wing getting the most PT and the best high volume shooting wing on the roster and the other handles the ball, so touches will naturally be up for him.

Niang
Merrill

This is where you can finally argue a bit, but both have the ability to wreck a game any given day with their quick triggers and both scare opposing defenses on a different level.

Okoro
Wade

Arguably your 2 most limited offensive players in your rotation. They should be towards the bottom. Spoon feed them open looks at 3, get out in transition and attack if given an opportunity, but outside of that I doubt anyone wants to see Isaac and Deano handling the ball more taking touches away from Garland, Mitchell, Mobley, Allen, Strus, or Merrill.

I don’t see any problem with the touch distribution as it currently stands. And I don’t see anything that suggests Dean is being frozen out for minutes at a time any more than the other limited skilled wings on the roster.
 
BimboColesHair said:
Yeah misread that.

And I think in the hierarchy of who should be touching the ball and how much, that should be the order it goes for the regular rotation. Perhaps the only argument is Niang. But he’s such an unabashed shooter that I don’t think his touches matter. You could flip the touch totals for him and Wade and he’d still shoot more shots per game than Wade.

Mitchell
Garland
Allen
Mobley

Should always be your top 4 in total touches.

Strus
LeVert

Should be the next ones because one is the wing getting the most PT and the best high volume shooting wing on the roster and the other handles the ball, so touches will naturally be up for him.

Niang
Merrill

This is where you can finally argue a bit, but both have the ability to wreck a game any given day with their quick triggers and both scare opposing defenses on a different level.

Okoro
Wade

Arguably your 2 most limited offensive players in your rotation. They should be towards the bottom. Spoon feed them open looks at 3, get out in transition and attack if given an opportunity, but outside of that I doubt anyone wants to see Isaac and Deano handling the ball more taking touches away from Garland, Mitchell, Mobley, Allen, Strus, or Merrill.

I don’t see any problem with the touch distribution as it currently stands. And I don’t see anything that suggests Dean is being frozen out for minutes at a time any more than the other limited skilled wings on the roster.
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Here’s another fact assuming the touches stats are correct. Dean and Sam are far and away the team leaders on fewest turnovers. So assuming the touch stats are accurate the fact that Dean and Sam have less than half the turnovers of Isaac and Georges (and a 1/3 of all the others) makes their low turnover stats all the more amazing. Hmmm.
 
Comeback kid said:
Here’s another fact assuming the touches stats are correct. Dean and Sam are far and away the team leaders on fewest turnovers. So assuming the touch stats are accurate the fact that Dean and Sam have less than half the turnovers of Isaac and Georges (and a 1/3 of all the others) makes their low turnover stats all the more amazing. Hmmm.
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Oh yeah.

Deano makes the right play 99.9% of the time. And doesn’t force the issue. Why I like his fit with the main 4 players.

But it’s also why he isn’t scary for opposing defenses.
 
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