Deni Avdija Full "UNGUARDABLE" 2019/20 Highlights ● Welcome To Cleveland Cavaliers?!

[Randolphkeys]

Let's compare their stats at 19-20 age in Euroleague per 36 to be fair

Cedi 12.4 pts 66% Ft 4.6 3PTA 30.3 3PT% 6.8 Total reb 2 AST 1.3STL .6 Blocks 1.6TOV 4.4PF
Deni 10.2 pts 55% Ft 4.6 3PTA 27.7 3PT% 6.6 Total reb 2.9 Ast 1 STL .6 Blocks 1.8 TOV 5PF

The thing Deni is prob much better at is finishing his 2pt % is .596 vs .471 for Cedi which is not insignificant.

I remember after the Euroleague play, Deni was considered a late lottery prospect. The problem with the comparison as you game it is that his play after Euroleague play pushed him up the draft boards, when he was given a larger role on the team.

I get it that in your opinion Okoro should be the pick at #5 and he is a better small forward prospect. I'm not a really far apart from you on Okoro, the lack of any first person viewing of his play since late February leaves me in a more conservative scouting opinion.

However, at this point you are looking for reasons to tear Avdija down to build Okoro up. I don't think that is a take that ages well. Avdija has some clear advantages - off ball offense and defense, height advantage, catch and shoot, playmaking. Okoro has some advantages - on ball defense, general better left hand, shot off the bounce. It's a great situation that two small forwards are around the #5 area of the draft. Let's see how it plays out, but I'd be careful about letting excitement over one prospect lead to bias against another.

 

[Nathan S]

I remember after the Euroleague play, Deni was considered a late lottery prospect. The problem with the comparison as you game it is that his play after Euroleague play pushed him up the draft boards, when he was given a larger role on the team.

I get it that in your opinion Okoro should be the pick at #5 and he is a better small forward prospect. I'm not a really far apart from you on Okoro, the lack of any first person viewing of his play since late February leaves me in a more conservative scouting opinion.

However, at this point you are looking for reasons to tear Avdija down to build Okoro up. I don't think that is a take that ages well. Avdija has some clear advantages - off ball offense and defense, height advantage, catch and shoot, playmaking. Okoro has some advantages - on ball defense, general better left hand, shot off the bounce. It's a great situation that two small forwards are around the #5 area of the draft. Let's see how it plays out, but I'd be careful about letting excitement over one prospect lead to bias against another.

I don't think Okoro would thrive in a leading role offensively, but let's not pretend Avdija thrived either. He was atrocious offensively when asked to play a high-usage role.

 

[ajz20]

I remember after the Euroleague play, Deni was considered a late lottery prospect. The problem with the comparison as you game it is that his play after Euroleague play pushed him up the draft boards, when he was given a larger role on the team.

I get it that in your opinion Okoro should be the pick at #5 and he is a better small forward prospect. I'm not a really far apart from you on Okoro, the lack of any first person viewing of his play since late February leaves me in a more conservative scouting opinion.

However, at this point you are looking for reasons to tear Avdija down to build Okoro up. I don't think that is a take that ages well. Avdija has some clear advantages - off ball offense and defense, height advantage, catch and shoot, playmaking. Okoro has some advantages - on ball defense, general better left hand, shot off the bounce. It's a great situation that two small forwards are around the #5 area of the draft. Let's see how it plays out, but I'd be careful about letting excitement over one prospect lead to bias against another.

Until RCF sees a guy working out with a fat guy running at them with a broom there is nothing to get excited about. Perhaps it is Covid but not as many crazy workout videos where every prospect is shooting like Reggie Miller and dunking like Jordan. Miss that part of the process.

 

[Man Called X]

Until RCF sees a guy working out with a fat guy running at them with a broom there is nothing to get excited about. Perhaps it id Covid but not as many crazy without videos where every prospect is shooting like Reggie Miller and dunking like Jordan. Miss that part of the process.

I have searched for those videos of Dion. But my google-fu failed me.

 

[Cavatt]

I remember after the Euroleague play, Deni was considered a late lottery prospect. The problem with the comparison as you game it is that his play after Euroleague play pushed him up the draft boards, when he was given a larger role on the team.

I get it that in your opinion Okoro should be the pick at #5 and he is a better small forward prospect. I'm not a really far apart from you on Okoro, the lack of any first person viewing of his play since late February leaves me in a more conservative scouting opinion.

However, at this point you are looking for reasons to tear Avdija down to build Okoro up. I don't think that is a take that ages well. Avdija has some clear advantages - off ball offense and defense, height advantage, catch and shoot, playmaking. Okoro has some advantages - on ball defense, general better left hand, shot off the bounce. It's a great situation that two small forwards are around the #5 area of the draft. Let's see how it plays out, but I'd be careful about letting excitement over one prospect lead to bias against another.

This conversation has polarized me. About that you are correct. I began looking once we got 5 and not caring which one of Vassell, Deni and Okoro we got. Seriously. I think they all have strengths. I would take both over Deni specifically because of what I have found trying to bolster my argument here. I thought I was going to find that his stats were only marginally better than Cedi, but in fact it is a toss up. It's the same thing people keep saying, where does he stand out exactly? Maybe I have poisoned myself against him, but I have gotten more scared of Deni the more I have learned. I prefer Vassell's shooting, length for position, and shooting over what Deni brings. I'd rather have Vassell's on ball defense and shooting, and hope he gets to like 2.9 assists.

Do you think you may be discounting the Saric potential of Deni where he really isn't good enough of a defender to be as inefficient as he is?

As far as Okoro. Okoro is more likely to learn to shoot according to the numbers and that is his only real weakness. Deni has to develop in more areas where Okoro is already strong to make it in the NBA. That's just my opinion. I really and truly don't think he sucks. He has a good feel for the game, I doubt he busts. I think he could do really well in a San Antonio like situation.

I think he will require too many touches here that aren't there for him on the Cavs in the starting lineup for him to develop properly. Sexton and garland need those. Okoro is a high impact player that will not be held back with a lower usage like Deni would. You said yourself, he can be better in a bigger role. If it's Lamelo you would take touches away from them, but you don't do that to put the ball in Deni's hands.

Also, Okoro is my backup plan. I think the best player for the Cavs is Haliburton. Garland just gums that up.

 

[wildfan]

sounds like there several teams looking to move up. and think from comments Nance has made he thinks he would like to be the starter at SF--with myself love and drummond the floor we did well last year - I am not a banger--I am working on my defense this off season such as angles to defend the 3. So do we need another 3?

Boston reportedly offered 3 1st pick in 2020 for pick 6 which they will flip as part of a trade for Holiday. Would the Cavs be interested if the deal was sweetened for the number 5 pick such as Smart for Exum - their 3 2020 1st rounders and a 2023 1st rounder ?

 

[Randolphkeys]

Until RCF sees a guy working out with a fat guy running at them with a broom there is nothing to get excited about. Perhaps it id Covid but not as many crazy workout videos where every prospect is shooting like Reggie Miller and dunking like Jordan. Miss that part of the process.

That is one way to look at it. Some post-season training is pretty useless. I wasn't a big supporter of Yi Jainlain in that draft because plenty of those empty gym workouts are indeed smoke and mirrors.

My point was more aligned with the idea this draft and this lead up is unprecedented. Most college players are in some type of tournament until sometime in early April, then get drafted two months later.

Armchair draftnicks haven't seen many of these guys bounce a ball for nine months. I'm over here reading articles covering James Wiseman - and I'm not pointing fingers here at Cavatt or any regular posters, per se - like they couldn't be more confident about his strengths and weaknesses.

I'm like, he played in three games in the past year. How sure can anyone be?

Smaller draft-centric websites took off because there wasn't enough time between the end of the regular season, let alone the finals, and draft day to do solid research on prospects. I think we can agree this isn't one of those pre-draft processes. This time around I am stuck putting more faith into people with more access.

The one guy I could see recently, and he improved quite a bit, was Avdija. Thought that's worth mentioning when six year old stats of Cedi are being compared to two year old stats of Avdija.

 

[Photon]

I think this was meant to be a shot at Avdija, but Joe Engles would be our second best small forward since Dan Gilbert became owner.

With all these possible top ten prospects, the worry is what they can't do yet at age 19. The toughest part of this draft is the long wait between when they last played a game for the public and what they can do now.

I haven't seen Okoro play for over six months. Is his jump shot no longer an issue? No way for me to know. Is Okongwu able to do anything facing the basket? No clue, nobody has any clue what other players have added.

I do see a lot of players in the NBA who had similar strengths and weaknesses at age 19 that Deni have who went on to make a big impact on the court. A well built 6'9 two way player who already plays a perimeter game yet isn't afraid of contact can do a lot of damage in the NBA.

Not really a shot, because I think Joe is quite nice.
This is what I think he will be, but has enough tools to upgrade that. Especially if he keeps the intensity that can be observed in his play.

 

[Ohioplayer00]

His season high in the Euro League is 13 ppg? Wow, what's not to like.

Looking at the footage he's really good at dunking uncontested. He has a nice 3-point stroke but I don't know what his shooting percentage is. The most 3's he made in a game was three.

He looks comfortable handling the ball on the break and throws a nice bounce pass. To me he looks like a Cedi Osman who can go to his left a little and is a better passer.

Scouting reports say he needs to improve his outside shot....watching his form it is kind of funky AND at the end of a jump shot his legs are wide open. I like the kid but he is also (like Toppin) a liability on defense. But at #5 I don’t the Cavs can go wrong with either of these guys.

 

[Ohioplayer00]

sounds like there several teams looking to move up. and think from comments Nance has made he thinks he would like to be the starter at SF--with myself love and drummond the floor we did well last year - I am not a banger--I am working on my defense this off season such as angles to defend the 3. So do we need another 3?

Boston reportedly offered 3 1st pick in 2020 for pick 6 which they will flip as part of a trade for Holiday. Would the Cavs be interested if the deal was sweetened for the number 5 pick such as Smart for Exum - their 3 2020 1st rounders and a 2023 1st rounder ?

Danny A is not that dumb!

 

[Randolphkeys]

Here's the Mike Schmitz breakdown:


+Point guard passing ability

+Ability to grab a defensive rebound and push pace

+Knows when to attack the rim, finishes with left

+Improvement in catch and shoot

+ Drives of a hard show

+Moves well off the ball

+Growing as a scorer in the post

- Needs to make free throws

- Doesn't always keep balance on catch and shoot

- Needs more confidence in driving left

-Late learning to use pick and roll