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Early 22 GM Thread! (Trade Ideas here)

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Another thing to consider.

Many tend to think of Civale and Plesac as what they are now, or have been so far, with no upside. But neither are old by any stretch of the imagination. Plesac turns 27 this week. Civale turns 27 in June. (Bieber turns 27 in May)

Arguably, the best SPs we have had in this century are CC, Lee, Westbrook, Cookie, Kluber, Bauer, and Clevinger.

Everyone of them, excepting CC and Westbrook, were better after turning 27 than before....by a lot. (Westbrook blew out his arm)

Lots of talk about the upside of our prospects, but there is still upside with our present rotation...and several of our position players.
 
If Morris throws much more than 110 IP this year, it will be gross negligence on the part of our FO.
 
Espino is going to be nowhere near the big league club.. to many players in front of him on the depth chart for it. He is talented bit it's way to soon for it...
Agree with this posting.. While Daniel Espino's talent is unassailable.. his time to show that on the shores of Lake Erie are destined for Eastlake from the outset of the 2022 season.. Akron could be in his future around the all star break.. At that point.. and assuming two things:

-the Guards starting staff is gassed
-Espino's blowing the doors off of the competition..

He may see a late season shock promotion for a "spot start" on the back side of a double header... even that remote possibility is unlikely... This would be formerly known as a "cup of coffee". There are just too many other guys that should be given and deserve the opportunity..
 
If Morris throws much more than 110 IP this year, it will be gross negligence on the part of our FO.

Another thing to consider.

Many tend to think of Civale and Plesac as what they are now, or have been so far, with no upside. But neither are old by any stretch of the imagination. Plesac turns 27 this week. Civale turns 27 in June. (Bieber turns 27 in May)

Arguably, the best SPs we have had in this century are CC, Lee, Westbrook, Cookie, Kluber, Bauer, and Clevinger.

Everyone of them, excepting CC and Westbrook, were better after turning 27 than before....by a lot. (Westbrook blew out his arm)

Lots of talk about the upside of our prospects, but there is still upside with our present rotation...and several of our position players.



Disagree with these two postings..
 
Disagree with these two postings..

I agree though the guys we will currently in the rotation on paper have a chance to get better... Plesac really is the guy who could get moved because of how he is off the field at times not because of talent levels.
 
I agree though the guys we will currently in the rotation on paper have a chance to get better... Plesac really is the guy who could get moved because of how he is off the field at times not because of talent levels.
Agree.. anyone who's ever watched/followed baseball believes/knows low/mid 20's SP's are ascending in their abilities.. i.e. they have unrealized upside..

Plesac is a young guy.. has some maturing to do.. if not.. then not here... the risk for a repeat of his former behavior goes down as he becomes more mature.. but doesn't go away, completely.. He'd be moved if the right offer that helps the club both now and into the future can be cobbled together..
 
If Morris throws much more than 110 IP this year, it will be gross negligence on the part of our FO.

I get what you are saying as he had 90 inn in 2019 and 60 inn in 2021. However, even Triston and his slight frame got up to 120 inn last year after 140 inn in 2017 and 90 in 18 and none in 2019.

I do see him as a bullpen callup this year to get his feet wet in limited innings. But, you just can't just take stats and use that to project as these guys are working not only instructs but alot in offseason.

Triston call up in 20 surprised most of us as we thought he was going to need ramp up time. I can see Morgan/Myer/Morris/Plink being used in 21 in that order. However, as Morris has most upside, I wouldn't be shocked for him to be the 22 surprise and jump Myer for acouple spot starts, especially if in contention due to expanded playoffs. They can always have him go 4-5 inn in 25 starts (in AAA and MLB) like McK last year.

And, no CDAV, Garza, just like Stephan, isnt going to be converted back to a starter now .... Lets focus on 12+ starters we will have in AAA and AA first ... Do we need to pull out IndianPro projected 6 man rotations for all 4 leagues? Many starters will see our mlb staff in relief role only already (who coyld start for other teams) due to limited opportunity. Dont need to add to confusion by trying to make a reliever back into starter.
 
I get what you are saying as he had 90 inn in 2019 and 60 inn in 2021. However, even Triston and his slight frame got up to 120 inn last year after 140 inn in 2017 and 90 in 18 and none in 2019.

I do see him as a bullpen callup this year to get his feet wet in limited innings. But, you just can't just take stats and use that to project as these guys are working not only instructs but alot in offseason.

Triston call up in 20 surprised most of us as we thought he was going to need ramp up time. I can see Morgan/Myer/Morris/Plink being used in 21 in that order. However, as Morris has most upside, I wouldn't be shocked for him to be the 22 surprise and jump Myer for acouple spot starts, especially if in contention due to expanded playoffs. They can always have him go 4-5 inn in 25 starts (in AAA and MLB) like McK last year.

And, no CDAV, Garza, just like Stephan, isnt going to be converted back to a starter now .... Lets focus on 12+ starters we will have in AAA and AA first ... Do we need to pull out IndianPro projected 6 man rotations for all 4 leagues? Many starters will see our mlb staff in relief role only already (who coyld start for other teams) due to limited opportunity. Dont need to add to confusion by trying to make a reliever back into starter.

To go along with what you said, it sounded like from Bimbo that we actually have more need for bullpen arms than we do starters... that sounds so strange, but not exactly a bad thing in the end. Any injuries to our bullpen staff could put some of the arms with a limited number of innings in 22 into the bullpen as reinforcements. Morris has a good arm so it wouldn't surprise me to see him from the bullpen rather than starting at some point this season...
 
Espino is going to be nowhere near the big league club.. to many players in front of him on the depth chart for it. He is talented bit it's way to soon for it...
He's probably going to start the season in AA. He's probably going to blow through AA if he continues as he was. There is certainly and "outside chance" that he could be promoted which is why I said "outside chance". Is it likely? No, but barring an injury or performance setback he'll be pitching in Columbus for sure and that's "near" the big league club.
 
I get what you are saying as he had 90 inn in 2019 and 60 inn in 2021. However, even Triston and his slight frame got up to 120 inn last year after 140 inn in 2017 and 90 in 18 and none in 2019.

I do see him as a bullpen callup this year to get his feet wet in limited innings. But, you just can't just take stats and use that to project as these guys are working not only instructs but alot in offseason.

Triston call up in 20 surprised most of us as we thought he was going to need ramp up time. I can see Morgan/Myer/Morris/Plink being used in 21 in that order. However, as Morris has most upside, I wouldn't be shocked for him to be the 22 surprise and jump Myer for acouple spot starts, especially if in contention due to expanded playoffs. They can always have him go 4-5 inn in 25 starts (in AAA and MLB) like McK last year.

And, no CDAV, Garza, just like Stephan, isnt going to be converted back to a starter now .... Lets focus on 12+ starters we will have in AAA and AA first ... Do we need to pull out IndianPro projected 6 man rotations for all 4 leagues? Many starters will see our mlb staff in relief role only already (who coyld start for other teams) due to limited opportunity. Dont need to add to confusion by trying to make a reliever back into starter.
I wasn't saying Garza should get starts, only that he is a depth starter. I'll wait to see if he is converted to a reliever because I find it difficult to believe that fully.
 
In regards to Espino, I think it's more than likely he starts in AA.

There is an outside chance he makes it all the way to the show in 2022. Anyone ahead of him on the depth chart is not a hinderance if Espino crushes it.

He is a lot "closer then some think - he is a season or less away from getting his 1st big league innings..
 
He's probably going to start the season in AA. He's probably going to blow through AA if he continues as he was. There is certainly and "outside chance" that he could be promoted which is why I said "outside chance". Is it likely? No, but barring an injury or performance setback he'll be pitching in Columbus for sure and that's "near" the big league club.
Agree with most of this positing.. Espino has about 50 IP's at high A... It might be prudent to start him in Lake County.. with an eye toward moving him to Akron once he approaches a cummulative 100 IP's at A+?.. give or take.. IF he makes it all the way to AAA by the close of the season.. that would be phenomenal...
 
There isn't a single person that doesn't think any of our young pitching staff isn't going to get better, but they have ceilings. They also have very good value that could help fill a couple of holes in this lineup. They may choose not to trade a SP, but will anyone here be surprised if they do?

Agree with most of this positing.. Espino has about 50 IP's at high A... It might be prudent to start him in Lake County.. with an eye toward moving him to Akron once he approaches a cummulative 100 IP's at A+?.. give or take.. IF he makes it all the way to AAA by the close of the season.. that would be phenomenal...
And what did Espino do in those 50 IP in high A?
 
To go along with what you said, it sounded like from Bimbo that we actually have more need for bullpen arms than we do starters... that sounds so strange, but not exactly a bad thing in the end. Any injuries to our bullpen staff could put some of the arms with a limited number of innings in 22 into the bullpen as reinforcements. Morris has a good arm so it wouldn't surprise me to see him from the bullpen rather than starting at some point this season...

Exactly. Even though Morris could be #2/#3 type starter down the road, a stint this year in the bullpen would just give him enough of a taste in the MLB to see what he needs to work on (as things that work in AAA don't work in the MLB). And, to beat a dead horse, when any reliever lands on the DL, as you know it will happen, where is the flexibility in our CURRENT roster? Unless it is a 60-day DL where you can add a Garza, Santos or Parker type to 40-man, who can be called up that won't require a corresponding cut?

Morgan, Myers, Morris, Plinkington and Vargas are the only minor league pitchers on the 40-man right now .... I see Morgan as the easy few day call-up for a COVID positive/close contact type situation as the 8th reliever is just mop up duty role. Yet, for a 15-45 day stint, I see Morris as the most ready pitcher with upside for the bullpen. He can do a clean start of a 2-3 inning stint in the pen and get experience on what works in AAA but not in MLB to work on when sent back down. Its a short-term win-win that won't deem him a long-term reliever role like Stephan and Garza have been penciled into.
 
And what did Espino do in those 50 IP in high A?

For me, I don't mind rushing an Espino type and push him up to AA at BOY. If he doesn't handle it, it is just something for our coaches to work with him on (how to handle stress and setbacks between the ears). Yet, for me Espino's biggest issue will be how to pitch rather than throw. He racks up the Ks as 16 ks per 9 inn at LC shows. However, the 4.04 ERA hides is 7 of the 22 ER are on the longball in 50 innings (1 hr ever 7 inn). In addition, in 10 starts, he averaged 5 innings (on 70-80 pitches -- which isn't too bad as he works up to 100). I don't know if he just challenges hitters too much -- uses FB too much and pays for it or misses down the middle or hangs a curve. Yet, none of these mistakes work in the MLB. He is going to need maybe a heavy slider or splitter that hitters put in play as grounders vs Ks.

He has great potential ... Nolan type. He just needs some seasoning to put it all together. So why rush it when we have a solid 6-7 man staff (with Morgan and Morris in AAA).
 

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