Early 22 GM Thread! (Trade Ideas here)

[CATS44]

If I want to improve my roster significantly, and by significantly I mean go toe to toe with Chicago the next three years, it is gonna come at significant prospect cost.

I won't shy away from trading any prospect who is part of an overwhelming abundance and who I dont figure will make a significant contribution in the next two years. That description fits Espino.

In addition to the all around offense Mullins would provide, he would be a plus plus defender in left field.

I am also not a historical revisionist. Weve had other pitching prospects rated as highly...or higher... than Espino, and most of them did little or nothing at the MLB level.

Sheffield
Pomeranz
White
Adam Miller
Jason Knapp
Jeremy Guthrie

I can also look at the top pitching prospects of 2018...three years ago...and see what they have done in MLB since then...three years being my time frame.

Forest Whitney #9.... nada.
Kopech #10...1.6 WAR
Honeywell #12... nada
Buehler #13....awesome
Mitch Keller #15....2.1 WAR over three years.
Alex Reyes #18....0.4 WAR over four years
Makenzie Gore....nada
Hunter Greene #21...nada
TMac #23...1.7 WAR

Out of nine elite can't miss pitching prospects, only Buehler has done enough to make a difference over the three years since 2018, and Buehler was already in MLB by then.

Those are just the ones in the top 25. Espino is barely in the top 100.

Over the past three years, Plesac has put up 3.4 WAR, making him more valuable than any elite prospect on that list, other than Buehler.

 

[FFRva]

If I want to improve my roster significantly, and by significantly I mean go toe to toe with Chicago the next three years, it is gonna come at significant prospect cost.

I won't shy away from trading any prospect who is part of an overwhelming abundance and who I dont figure will make a significant contribution in the next two years. That description fits Espino.

In addition to the all around offense Mullins would provide, he would be a plus plus defender in left field.

I am also not a historical revisionist. Weve had other pitching prospects rated as highly...or higher... than Espino, and most of them did little or nothing at the MLB level.

Sheffield
Pomeranz
White
Adam Miller
Jason Knapp
Jeremy Guthrie

I can also look at the top pitching prospects of 2018...three years ago...and see what they have done in MLB since then...three years being my time frame.

Forest Whitney #9.... nada.
Kopech #10...1.6 WAR
Honeywell #12... nada
Buehler #13....awesome
Mitch Keller #15....2.1 WAR over three years.
Alex Reyes #18....0.4 WAR over four years
Makenzie Gore....nada
Hunter Greene #21...nada
TMac #23...1.7 WAR

Out of nine elite can't miss pitching prospects, only Buehler has done enough to make a difference over the three years since 2018, and Buehler was already in MLB by then.

Those are just the ones in the top 25. Espino is barely in the top 100.

Over the past three years, Plesac has put up 3.4 WAR, making him more valuable than any elite prospect on that list, other than Buehler.

Pitchers are way volatile but just stating my opinion of your internal list. I think only Pomeranz and Miller could be on Espino level type talent while in Cleveland, maybe Guthrie because he was such a sure thing you knew his floor would stick in a rotation. Those other guys might have been first rounders but none had near his stuff other than Knapp who he was damaged goods even before we acquired him.

Man Miller should have been a star.

I want Espino to stay and think he's the best pitching prospect we've had in a real long time but I'm not going to throw a fit if he's dealt. Why?

Look at our current rotation, look at the arms coming, look at the recent track record of development.

Honestly if it was between him and Cody Morris, I'm almost more worried about losing Morris because of the lesser return back. It all should come down to is Espino goes, it's got to be for a real BIG get.

 

[Criznit]

It is unfair to "rank" Espino's current prospect ranking at this time, he simply doesn't have enough experience under his belt.

Also the lost year to Covid stalled plenty of guys.

Give him another year. I think we will be glad we did. Everyone else in our system... I could live with trading. I could even accept a deal that includes Espino but I am sure the FO has his value set super high right now - higher than his prospect rank is and his current BTV value.

This is a case where he is more valuable to us then anyone else. At least for now.

Sure he could get injured or stall but that is a risk I am willing to take because I consider the payoff a possible jackpot.

Again look at his numbers.. Lets see what he can do in AA and watch him skyrocket up those all important almighty prospect rankings the FO quite frankly doesn't give a shit about.

 

[CATS44]

Well, like I said...a lot of fans say they want to compete with Chicago year in and year out, but few of them are willing to pay the price.

I've never seen a team win a pennant for having the most R5 eligible prospects.

As we speak, teams like Oakland and Minnesota are emptying their 40 mans in order to scavenge the good prospects that other teams don't protect...esp ours.

 

[CDAV45]

For me, the problem isn't really dealing Espino. The problem is that I'm unsure if Mullins can repeat his incredible performance. If I'm giving up Espino, I want this year's Mullins, not the one from last year or the year before. This year's Mullins is absolutely worth a package headed with Espino.

There's no reason for Chernoff to "empty the 40 man" at this time is there? Can't he designate guys as/if needed or does the roster need to be set with an open spot(s) prior to a selection?

CATS, I suspect that Chernoff and Antonetti are also hovering above waiting for an opportunity to claim a player or 2 as well. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it came to be the means by which they attempt to address the OF situation.

 

[Criznit]

For me, the problem isn't really dealing Espino. The problem is that I'm unsure if Mullins can repeat his incredible performance. If I'm giving up Espino, I want this year's Mullins, not the one from last year or the year before. This year's Mullins is absolutely worth a package headed with Espino.

There's no reason for Chernoff to "empty the 40 man" at this time is there? Can't he designate guys as/if needed or does the roster need to be set with an open spot(s) prior to a selection?

CATS, I suspect that Chernoff and Antonetti are also hovering above waiting for an opportunity to claim a player or 2 as well. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it came to be the means by which they attempt to address the OF situation.

Current worth is Espino in a Mullins trade makes sense. Future worth is another question, and your concerns about Mullin's past play adds another wrinkle.

That said, I would certainly entertain the idea of a Mullins/Espino trade, depending on all the other parts....If for some reason the Orioles would accept a straight up 1 for 1 deal..... Welcome to Cleveland Cedric Mullins.

Trading Espino right now in most cases is a no-go for 2 central reasons. 1. As our top SP pitching prospect a premium is added 2. If he builds on his 2021 his value as a trade chip/asset improves immensely..

I'm all for trading prospects, but the right prospects..

 

[CATS44]

If you want the right upgrades, you have to trade the right prospects...not just the ones that you dont care about.

It will take at least four prospects to bring in a difference making bat that we can afford...and fringe prospects/players don't count.

And unless we do make such a trade, we will continue to watch the same clown show in the corner outfield.

 

[CDAV45]

Current worth is Espino in a Mullins trade makes sense. Future worth is another question, and your concerns about him possibly regressing adds another wrinkle.

That said, I would certainly entertain the idea of a Mullins/Espino trade, depending on all the other parts....If for some reason the Orioles would accept a straight up 1 for 1 deal..... Welcome to Cleveland Cedric Mullins.

Trading Espino right now in most cases is a no-go for 2 central reasons. 1. As our top SP pitching prospect a premium is added 2. If he builds on his 2021 his value as a trade chip/asset improves immensely..

I'm all for trading prospects, but the right prospects..

If Mullins were a Guardian, there's no way I give him up for a single prospect. He's way too valuable IMO. Having said that, the risk of selling Espino well before his peak and buying Mullins at what may be his shouldn't go unconsidered. I guess I need to know what else has to be included for it to happen. Like you said, "the right prospects".

 

[CATS44]

If Mullins were a Guardian, there's no way I give him up for a single prospect. He's way too valuable IMO. Having said that, the risk of selling Espino well before his peak and buying Mullins at what may be his shouldn't go unconsidered. I guess I need to know what else has to be included for it to happen. Like you said, "the right prospects".

I've provided the reason that Mullins shouldn't be considered a one year wonder.

He has a long track record of crushing RH pitching. .833 OPS in his career...931 in 2021.

His problem was that he simply can't hit right handed. The simple decision to give up switch hitting changed everything. He went from a .439 OPS vs lefties to .788.

There is a far better chance that his 2022 production is close to reality going forward than there is that Espino will ever be a reliable MLB SP.

 

[CDAV45]

I've provided the reason that Mullins shouldn't be considered a one year wonder.

He has a long track record of crushing RH pitching. .833 OPS in his career...931 in 2021.

His problem was that he simply can't hit right handed. The simple decision to give up switch hitting changed everything. He went from a .439 OPS vs lefties to .788.

There is a far better chance that his 2022 production is close to reality going forward than there is that Espino will ever be a reliable MLB SP.

I want to believe you CATS, I'd just like to see another year of it before "giving up the farm" for him. The more I consider it, the more I believe that Baltimore won't trade him anyway. Great target though, and certainly appears to be a difference maker. He's the type that would make all of us happy should he continue to perform like he did this season. He's a 5 tool player.

Edited to say that I think it's more realistic to acquire Happ and Haniger, and I would focus my energy and resources on that type of player(s).

 

[rmacd]

If I want to improve my roster significantly, and by significantly I mean go toe to toe with Chicago the next three years, it is gonna come at significant prospect cost.

I won't shy away from trading any prospect who is part of an overwhelming abundance and who I dont figure will make a significant contribution in the next two years. That description fits Espino.

In addition to the all around offense Mullins would provide, he would be a plus plus defender in left field.

I am also not a historical revisionist. Weve had other pitching prospects rated as highly...or higher... than Espino, and most of them did little or nothing at the MLB level.

Sheffield
Pomeranz
White
Adam Miller
Jason Knapp
Jeremy Guthrie

I can also look at the top pitching prospects of 2018...three years ago...and see what they have done in MLB since then...three years being my time frame.

Forest Whitney #9.... nada.
Kopech #10...1.6 WAR
Honeywell #12... nada
Buehler #13....awesome
Mitch Keller #15....2.1 WAR over three years.
Alex Reyes #18....0.4 WAR over four years
Makenzie Gore....nada
Hunter Greene #21...nada
TMac #23...1.7 WAR

Out of nine elite can't miss pitching prospects, only Buehler has done enough to make a difference over the three years since 2018, and Buehler was already in MLB by then.

Those are just the ones in the top 25. Espino is barely in the top 100.

Over the past three years, Plesac has put up 3.4 WAR, making him more valuable than any elite prospect on that list, other than Buehler.

Of the 6 Tribe prospects you have rated equal to Espino only Adam Miller has the stuff of Espino. The reason he was not successful he developed a blister on his finger and never pitched in the majors.

 

[FFRva]

Of the 6 Tribe prospects you have rated equal to Espino only Adam Miller has the stuff of Espino. The reason he was not successful he developed a blister on his finger and never pitched in the majors.

It was a rare ligament damage to his middle finger but he also had blister problems and one other injury that escapes me, but he was a flat out stud.

 

[Criznit]

Of the 6 Tribe prospects you have rated equal to Espino only Adam Miller has the stuff of Espino. The reason he was not successful he developed a blister on his finger and never pitched in the majors.

If you look at both Adam Miller's and Daniel Espino's age 20 seasons in high A ball.... Espino DESTROYS Miller.

If Daniel can do repeat what he did in 2021 in 2022 in AA/AAA and dare I hope, progress/improve he may just become the biggest darling in all the minors...

I know Adam Miller was hot shit, but IMO Espino is clearly a better prospect.

 

[Gson]

If you look at both Adam Miller's and Daniel Espino's age 20 seasons in high A ball.... Espino DESTROYS Miller.

If Daniel can do repeat what he did in 2021 in 2022 in AA/AAA and dare I hope, progress/improve he may just become the biggest darling in all the minors...

I know Adam Miller was hot shit, but IMO Espino is clearly a better prospect.

There hasn't been a pitching prospect that relies so well and so consistently on his lower half than Daniel Espino.. He repeatedly generates easy high end velo effortlessly.. This kid is truly special..

 

[Gson]

A trade in the MLB Trade Rumors evening chat suggested by a poster named
Jerry Dipoto
5:59
Kyle Lewis, Evan White, Justus Sheffield, and Jake Fraley for Jose Ramirez. Does this offer tempt Cleveland?

Mark P
6:00
Cleveland would get able to get a lot more from another team, or be in position to ask for more from Seattle

Not sure about returning Sheffied.. otherwise.. it's a good start..

FYI.. later on in the chat.. Soto from the Washington Nationals was discussed as a trade to Seattle with:
SOTO
7:10
Kelenic, Julio Rodriguez, and ONE of Kirby or Hancock? This is another reason you're nowhere near qualified to do this. That wouldn't even be HALF the return for Soto. He's ONLY 22, and he's ALREADY one of the best players in baseball. This isn't some washed-up veteran near the end of his peak. Soto doesn't even start to peak for another 4-5 seasons! Just quit your job now. The Nats could ask a team for AT LEAST their top 5-6 prospects, and NOBODY would be off-limits.

Mark P
7:11
The question was specifically, "what would Seattle realistically offer for Soto," not what would it take for the Nats to actually trade Soto.

7:12
If the Nats actually made Soto available, who knows how aggressive Jerry Dipoto might get if he thought there was a realistic chance of getting Soto to Seattle. But it's really kind of a moot point, since there is no way Soto is being dealt.