Early 22 GM Thread! (Trade Ideas here)

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Gson

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The price on Rodriguez will likely be excessive. MLB has him ranked #2 in all of baseball. I think there'd be a higher chance of getting a buy low on Kelenic, but I'm not sure we'd like to deal with him either. Plus he'd hopefully be able to fill in from day 1.
The Mariners outfield, while appearing deep..may not actually be that deep.. Injuries, under performance and uncertainty are realistic concerns with Lewis, Trammel and Ju-Rod.. Haniger is a godsend to them.. and will want to keep him.. So.. this shouldn't take away a chance to make a deal with "Jumpy Jerry".. He's always ready to wheel & deal..

With Ty France grasping and running with the 1B job.. Evan White, ceremonially offered and accepted a deal for six years including a couple club controlled option years that is very similar in many ways to the JRam deal.. Upon review of White's medicals.. make the Mariners an offer.. a real offer.. An SP candidate choice (Joey Cantillo, Scott Moss or Carlos Vargas others) & a middle infielder choice (Aaron Bracho, Owen Miller, Ernie Clement, Yu, others..) might just do it..

It could be the best deal of the off season..White was known for his glove and had quite a hitter's eye coming into the M's system..

Thoughts?..
 

sportscoach

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The Mariners outfield, while appearing deep..may not actually be that deep.. Injuries, under performance and uncertainty are realistic concerns with Lewis, Trammel and Ju-Rod.. Haniger is a godsend to them.. and will want to keep him.. So.. this shouldn't take away a chance to make a deal with "Jumpy Jerry".. He's always ready to wheel & deal..

With Ty France grasping and running with the 1B job.. Evan White, ceremonially offered and accepted a deal for six years including a couple club controlled option years that is very similar in many ways to the JRam deal.. Upon review of White's medicals.. make the Mariners an offer.. a real offer.. An SP candidate choice (Joey Cantillo, Scott Moss or Carlos Vargas others) & a middle infielder choice (Aaron Bracho, Owen Miller, Ernie Clement, Yu, others..) might just do it..

It could be the best deal of the off season..White was known for his glove and had quite a hitter's eye coming into the M's system..

Thoughts?..

I think Seattle jumped the gun on White and I wouldn't be against the move, but it wouldn't be at a price I think the Mariners would like in a sense. I'd be willing to give up two middle tier prospects, maybe a Battenfield plus Bracho type of deal for him, but anything higher, I don't think I would personally do.
 

Gson

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I think Seattle jumped the gun on White and I wouldn't be against the move, but it wouldn't be at a price I think the Mariners would like in a sense. I'd be willing to give up two middle tier prospects, maybe a Battenfield plus Bracho type of deal for him, but anything higher, I don't think I would personally do.
I don't think we do anything with the Mariners vis^a^vis 1B until the health of Evan White is determined.. his trajectory for return is known and the Guardians FO is clearly supporting a deal that brings him here.. No more Jake Bauers..
 

CATS44

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I am not against Laureano, but at the same time, I am not willing to give up much for him cause of the suspension...

Looking at the projected arb raises, Manaea, Bassitt, Olson and Chapman will be due 40ish million and those four could easily get a lot of prospects back... Laureano was projected at 2.8 million which really isn't even all that high and Montas was at 5.2... I think if Oakland trades, it will be from those first four names, plus Laureano would be sold low right now and honestly I don't think they will do that unless they don't expect him to be back to his old self ya know?

I think it's a good chance the A's trade at least two of the mentioned guys... personally I'd try to get Bassitt and extend him, but thats just me

Do you have any problems with Clase's suspension?

Laureano fits the Guardians, because he is a team leader that everyone over there looks up to.

While Bassitt would be nice, he is a 33 yr old rental. Rental pitchers are not on the shopping list.

**********

Evan White is guaranteed $20 mil over the next four years, whether he plays or not. Unless Seattle is willing to throw in a very good prospect in order to get out from under that obligation, IMO his contract is untradeable.
 

Gson

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yes.. there is a problem with Clase's suspension.. no doubt, it's a concern and it should be.. any further malfeasance and he's would be gone for a LONG time..something that would be very harmful to the club..

yes for Laureano's suspension to start the 2022 season..just when his LACK of leadership would be most needed.. HARD PASS..

Agree on Bassitt..

Assuming the health.. and it must be confirmed..and can't be glossed over... Evan White at six years 30.4 MM including exercising the two option years in 2025 and 2026 and not making the payouts.. would be a HUGE addition.. Gold Glove 1B.. with one of the best hit tools in his class.. The return from injury was originally slated to afford him fully ready to go for the 2022 season and the run up to it..

The acquisition of Evan White could be worth the gamble..
 

Benway

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Evan White (25) is a rare BR TL. (like Rickey Henderson)
He's certainly looked Awful at the plate so far, well shy even of Jake Bauers' standard.
Would he be Free? As in, cost us nothing to acquire?
 

KluberSociety

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Re: Laureano, I wonder what the track record is on suspended players' performance after suspension. We can point to Clase or look at how Nelson Cruz is still producing in old age but are they the exception or the rule? If Laureano was performing well due to PEDs and we trade for him then he'd be a disappointment if he stopped using them, or if he used them and got caught again. I'd imagine we'd just have to look at this on a case-by-case level. One thing he doesn't have is a particularly noticeable power surge.

Also may be worth noting with the way WAR and other stats work which give positional advantage, Laureano was racking up points playing CF. With his arm providing most of his defensive value though he would maybe even make a better RF so I don't think I'd be worried about that change.
 

Gson

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Evan White (25) is a rare BR TL. (like Rickey Henderson)
He's certainly looked Awful at the plate so far, well shy even of Jake Bauers' standard.
Would he be Free? As in, cost us nothing to acquire?
No..he would not be free.. While his value is reduced (sell low) from the start of his career and injury.. the actual return is only speculative. In other words.. he's still going to cost.. just not sure how much.. It should be noted that in October of 2019, his peak value of $ 24.3 MM (@ signing of his 6 year plus 2 single year options...controllable through 2027 w/ the options) versus $ -11.7 MM as his current value. So, he would be severly discounted from his peak value after partial years service in both the 2020 and 2021 seasons, respectively. He also accumulated less than 300 AB's during this stilted, muddled, and imbalanced partial year(s) start to his career.

BTW.. the Ramon Laureano suspension has the added distaste of restriction from post season play, however, because this is a wrap around 80 game suspension, the 2021 season is considered by MLB as Laureano's post season restriction period. He'll have 27 games at the start of the 2022 season to complete the suspension. It should be noted that Laureano was adamant in his response to the suspension that he did not knowingly ingest the PED nor would he. So any contrition was not offered..

It is said that he has a great clubhouse presence and energy that makes him a great teammate.. that was missed immediately at the onset of the suspension.. At that time..the A's were holding onto the wildcard spot.. and subsequently went into a tailspin..

Thoughts?
 

CalBuckeyeRob

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Interesting data developing on long term contracts for players before they have done a thing. Brandon Lowe (he had a handful of ABs) and Eloy Jimenez seem to be successes. Evan White and Scott Kingery have been fails. Others? See that as a strategy in Cleveland at any time?
 

PPark

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Its not as far off base as you would make it out to be...and far different than us trading Jose.

The key to the trade is Laureano, not Montas.

The key for Oakland is fourfold. Beane needs to cut payroll, field a 26 man roster, fill a 40 man, and rebuild his lousy farm system. And if at all possible, contend in the AL West.

This trade would be...

1) Nine years of two MLB SPs

2) Fifteen years of three MIFs, two with MLB experience

For...

1) Two years of one MLB SP

2) Three years of one MLB OF.

3) $8 mil in savings this year, probably $12-14 next year.

At least three of the players they received would start for Oakland next year.
The two deals are rough value equivalents.
 

CATS44

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My thought is that Laureano is an all around 4 WAR ballplayer who hits, hits for power, runs well, can play plus defense in the corner outfield with one of the best OF arms in baseball...and has rave reviews for his clubhouse presence....suspension not withstanding.

He has three years of control, with a total salary of around $15 mil.

What Laureano provides is the #1 priority for this org.

White is a high pedigreed...top 60 prospect..that has produced at the minor league level about the same as Bobby Bradley, and much worse at the MLB level in the same amount of opportunity.

He is recovering from hip surgery, which means that his defensive calling card is in jeopardy. He has $20 mil guaranteed coming.

He and Bradley are the exact same age.

What White provides is hardly a priority.

Laureano is #1 on my hit parade. I'd want Seattle to pay me in big time talent to take White off their hands. I have no interest in paying the next Jake Bauers $20 mil, and the odds are closer to Bauers than they are to significant upgrade.

White is the type of gamble that the Yankees can shrug off if it doesn't work, but the type that could cripple the Guardians for several years.

The number one rule in gambling is that if you can't afford to lose, don't get in the poker game. The Guardians can't afford to gamble that kind of money, esp on that long of a shot.
 

CATS44

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The two deals are rough value equivalents.
Rough value equivalents are BS, esp since they are given in a vacuum with no consideration of each orgs situation.

Consider this...

As good as he is, Jose has very little value as a player to a lot of teams, because of the situation they are in, and/or the construction of their present roster.

Oakland is one of them.
 

Gson

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My thought is that Laureano is an all around 4 WAR ballplayer who hits, hits for power, runs well, can play plus defense in the corner outfield with one of the best OF arms in baseball...and has rave reviews for his clubhouse presence....suspension not withstanding.

He has three years of control, with a total salary of around $15 mil.

What Laureano provides is the #1 priority for this org.

White is a high pedigreed...top 60 prospect..that has produced at the minor league level about the same as Bobby Bradley, and much worse at the MLB level in the same amount of opportunity.

He is recovering from hip surgery, which means that his defensive calling card is in jeopardy. He has $20 mil guaranteed coming.

He and Bradley are the exact same age.

What White provides is hardly a priority.

Laureano is #1 on my hit parade. I'd want Seattle to pay me in big time talent to take White off their hands. I have no interest in paying the next Jake Bauers $20 mil, and the odds are closer to Bauers than they are to significant upgrade.

White is the type of gamble that the Yankees can shrug off if it doesn't work, but the type that could cripple the Guardians for several years.

The number one rule in gambling is that if you can't afford to lose, don't get in the poker game. The Guardians can't afford to gamble that kind of money, esp on that long of a shot.
This is severely flawed thinking..

4 WAR players don't cost $ 15 MM over three years.. they cost double that.. perhaps more than double..

The medical check out pre-empts any consideration for abject failure due to a past injury (hip surgery for labrum repair).. Presenting a past injury as a means to future doom is disingenuous and flawed thinking..

Bradley has zero relevance to the topic..

There is more than one priority to achieving success in this offseason.. Getting an OF'er, even one as good as Laureano is, doesn't prevent getting a 1B.. and / or a C that can hit.. This is a "make believe" reason for precluding a full address of the Guardians priorities.. All three of these spots are considered priorities for the club.. your thinking.. someone else's thinking.. or group thinking, aside..

If the Guardians can't afford 1.4 MM in 2022 or 3.0 MM in 2023... then affording Laureano is also impossible.. One side can't be true if the other side is untrue.. Playing two ends against the middle as a means to argue a point soon runs out of real estate and is exposed as serious flawed thinking.. I'm sure the Yankees would hesitate at spending 2.2 MM / year for the next two years, if that's the case..

It's one thing to not like a player.. this isn't that..
 

sportscoach

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This is severely flawed thinking..

4 WAR players don't cost $ 15 MM over three years.. they cost double that.. perhaps more than double..

The medical check out pre-empts any consideration for abject failure due to a past injury (hip surgery for labrum repair).. Presenting a past injury as a means to future doom is disingenuous and flawed thinking..

Bradley has zero relevance to the topic..

There is more than one priority to achieving success in this offseason.. Getting an OF'er, even one as good as Laureano is, doesn't prevent getting a 1B.. and / or a C that can hit.. This is a "make believe" reason for precluding a full address of the Guardians priorities.. All three of these spots are considered priorities for the club.. your thinking.. someone else's thinking.. or group thinking, aside..

If the Guardians can't afford 1.4 MM in 2022 or 3.0 MM in 2023... then affording Laureano is also impossible.. One side can't be true if the other side is untrue.. Playing two ends against the middle as a means to argue a point soon runs out of real estate and is exposed as serious flawed thinking.. I'm sure the Yankees would hesitate at spending 2.2 MM / year for the next two years, if that's the case..

It's one thing to not like a player.. this isn't that..

I have my priority list as Corner OF (with proven MLB track record) then veteran LHRP, Catcher (if Perez isn't retained) then 1B...

Laureano fits the first need since on paper he should be a very good RF, but his value took a nosedive cause of the suspension and I feel like for the A's he will have more value there than he would get a in trade in 22 since his value is so low right now. Oakland also may need to trade Olson, Chapman, Bassitt and Manaea to restock the overall roster and leaving Laureano as one of the few veteran hitters for the middle of the lineup. If I was the A's I dont think i would trade Laureano unless I got full value (aka pre-suspension value)...

And when it comes to Bassitt, his age isn't as friendly, but his numbers don't show a decrease at all and if we could sign him for an additional two years or so, we would have Bieber, Bassitt and Civale as our 1-2-3 with Quantrill and TMac/Morris/Morgan winner in 22... Tell me who would have a better rotation in baseball on paper?
 

PPark

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Rough value equivalents are BS, esp since they are given in a vacuum with no consideration of each orgs situation.

Consider this...

As good as he is, Jose has very little value as a player to a lot of teams, because of the situation they are in, and/or the construction of their present roster.

Oakland is one of them.
Huh? It doesn’t change Jose’s market value nor make your initial proposal more realistic.
 

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