sportscoach
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I dont think Vargas will be since once the season starts he can be put on the 60 day DL... I think teams with open spots will snap him up
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Early 22 GM Thread! (Trade Ideas here)
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I dont think Vargas will be since once the season starts he can be put on the 60 day DL... I think teams with open spots will snap him up
Criznit
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There is no doubt Vargas is talented but he hasn't pitched above short season A ball and has missed the last 2 years. He is certainly more Luis Oviedo than Daniel Espino.
I'm sure they'll keep him but have to wonder if there are better uses for his roster spot.
sportscoach
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It would be weird to move on from him now since teams would be able to stash him while recovering without having to worry about a Rule 5 add...
I like Palacios' bat, but have major reservations about his defense anywhere.
Another question is whether you prefer him over Kwan, another LH hitter with no power...or do you want to keep two eggs in the same basket at the expense of another position?
*************
In re the Cubs:
I'd like to have Happ and Contreras. But there are some obstacles. First, Contreras is strictly a rental. Second, between them they will make $15 mil next year. Third, Happ strikes out a lot. Between he, Bradley, Franmil...if they all play fulltime and get 600 PAs, the Guardians will have 575 Ks in the middle of the lineup. Thats 42% of the team total for this year. I dont see how that leads to a vastly improved offense.
But strictly looking at the second obstacle...
The exercise lists $70 mil as the budget. After all is said and done...which was explained much earlier...I'm figuring on having about $15 mil to spend on player additions. If I dont bring back Roberto at a reduced rate, the number jumps to close to $20 mil. A trade for both of them would pretty much blow up my budget money wise, while also reduce my prospect capital significantly....still leaving me with a hole in the OF and no backup plan at first base.
Its a move I would certainly consider, with all the usual caveats. But only after I had exhausted efforts for other moves I prefer.
In other words, I prefer trading multiple (four) prospects for a controllable OF and signing a decent FA OF/IB...at a similar total cost.
The additional problem is that I have to make a prospects for player trade before having to set the 40 man, and Im not sure I can sift thru my preferred objectives in order to get to this trade in that short of a time.
Another question is whether you prefer him over Kwan, another LH hitter with no power...or do you want to keep two eggs in the same basket at the expense of another position?
*************
In re the Cubs:
I'd like to have Happ and Contreras. But there are some obstacles. First, Contreras is strictly a rental. Second, between them they will make $15 mil next year. Third, Happ strikes out a lot. Between he, Bradley, Franmil...if they all play fulltime and get 600 PAs, the Guardians will have 575 Ks in the middle of the lineup. Thats 42% of the team total for this year. I dont see how that leads to a vastly improved offense.
But strictly looking at the second obstacle...
The exercise lists $70 mil as the budget. After all is said and done...which was explained much earlier...I'm figuring on having about $15 mil to spend on player additions. If I dont bring back Roberto at a reduced rate, the number jumps to close to $20 mil. A trade for both of them would pretty much blow up my budget money wise, while also reduce my prospect capital significantly....still leaving me with a hole in the OF and no backup plan at first base.
Its a move I would certainly consider, with all the usual caveats. But only after I had exhausted efforts for other moves I prefer.
In other words, I prefer trading multiple (four) prospects for a controllable OF and signing a decent FA OF/IB...at a similar total cost.
The additional problem is that I have to make a prospects for player trade before having to set the 40 man, and Im not sure I can sift thru my preferred objectives in order to get to this trade in that short of a time.
Criznit
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IMO Vargas is a sure fire loss if we don't keep him, because, as noted, he is no risk, because of being able to move to the 60 day IL.
We kept Vargas over Oviedo last winter.
He began the season, pre surgery, as a 45 FV, in a grouping with Cantillo, Hentges, Torres, and Hankins. In short stints, he has thrown 100+...more like 95-97 in extended outings.
We kept Vargas over Oviedo last winter.
He began the season, pre surgery, as a 45 FV, in a grouping with Cantillo, Hentges, Torres, and Hankins. In short stints, he has thrown 100+...more like 95-97 in extended outings.
Gson
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About 9 months ago I wrote this in response to an Angels/Dodgers/Indians trade suggestion by Username1001:
(trade #35720) : https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/trade-35720/
GSon on January 4, 2021 at 4:33 am
The deal as presented has little chance… but it’s a good trade.. and it is fun..
Now for the really important part of this deal..
FWIW… You’ve uncovered/exposed Carlos Vargas to the rest of the world.. This is a big kid that is just beginning to grow into his fully mature body.. He has a floor as a HIGH leverage back of the pen / potential closer.. to another one of the mid rotation starters that the Indians have drafted/signed/traded for/stolen.. Carlos Vargas and his mid/upper 90’s high riding FB that he can reach back for a little more.. along with a wipe out / two plane / late moving hard slider.. that comes out of the same tunnel.. is devastating when he’s on.. and he’s just 21.. He also features a fading change up that will define his future role: RP or SP.. Great eye on this guy.. one of my personal favorites of the Tribe system..
Letting him go.. I don't think so..
Criznit
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Full disclosure - I have never been that high on Vargas. A 22 year old (his b-day was yesterday) yet to throw a pitch in full-season ball and someone I don't consider a top 25 prospect.
I get he has enormous potential but we'll see where he is next year.
They will almost certainly keep him, I would look to move him now. Sell low.
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Gson
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Yeah.. that's understandable.. this Covid year and any injury/malady.. makes for some really confusing development trajectories.. The first time I saw him warming up.. I believe Logan Ice was catching him.. and he was popping that mitt.. like a howitzer.. His motion was easy and repeating.. he threw maybe a dozen fastballs.. not a single one went straight.. I was hooked. This is a guy that has the talent to be as good as anyone in the tribe system (until I saw Hankins).. I've never seen Espino.. but I will this coming year..
There is no doubt in my mind that Vargas has the stuff to be a deadly reliever.. clearly back of the pen potential. He still needed some polish putting the ball where he wanted in the zone.. what 21 year old doesn't?.. I am told he throws a change up.. I've never seen one. If it's a quality pitch.. he could be on a tract to becoming a starter.. but.. my guess.. he'll be in the mix for a spot in the pen.. taking over for one of the cast offs that will be coming..
I guess you can't like everyone.. we'll disagree on Car-Var...
sportscoach
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Vargas will be a reliever once he starts pitching in 22 anyways cause of the limited innings, it will be 23 they will decide which way they go...
Gson
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The Braves used to bring a LOT of their pitchers up to the Big Leagues.. and pitched them out of the bullpen while they assimilated into the Show.. It doesn't change the work required for the pitcher.. it just changes their routine.. Instructs and side work and bullpens all continue, but they do the work under the direct tuteledge of major league pitching coaching.. Vargas may respond to it.. or.. like some, be overwhelmed by it..
We'll see.. he has the talent.. there is no doubt about that..
daddywags
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Until we learn otherwise, I'm assuming they want Josh Naylor to play more or less everyday next season. He may not be ready to start the season, but I can't see them populating the corner OF and 1B spots without regard to giving Naylor a legit shot at playing full time. To me none of H. Ramirez, Zimmer, Mercado, Johnson, Clement, Miller, or Chang are necessary on the 40-man roster. Not that they will all be left off it, but any or all could be IMO.
Good debate on Vargas by everybody involved.
Without a defining trade that eases the 40 man crunch, Vargas is surely a bubble guy. (I have him staying, but barely.)
IMO we are gonna lose somebody of value, but sometimes a choice comes down to which prospect/player is most likely to be lost. I think Vargas is more likely to be lost than somebody that I might value more.
Of course, a four for one trade eliminates the need to make some of these choices.
Without a defining trade that eases the 40 man crunch, Vargas is surely a bubble guy. (I have him staying, but barely.)
IMO we are gonna lose somebody of value, but sometimes a choice comes down to which prospect/player is most likely to be lost. I think Vargas is more likely to be lost than somebody that I might value more.
Of course, a four for one trade eliminates the need to make some of these choices.
I agree with this, the only question is whether he will make a full recovery, and what is the timeline for when he can be expected to be fully capable.
Without the injury, we probably aren't debating the need for an OF/1B. At worst, we would be looking at a Naylor-Mercado LF platoon. Both had .800 OPS this past season vs opposite handed pitching. Naylor was surprisingly much better vs RHers than Bradley, including SLG.
Naylor was also beginning to improve at the plate at the time of the injury. After a horrid April he put up a .735 OPS. Not great, not even average for a defensively limited player...but improvement.
Vs RHers he averaged an XBH every ten plate appearances. And he never got to play when the wind consistently blew out at the Prog and the pitchers had to forego the sticky stuff.
Unfortunately, the questions surrounding his ankle won't be answered probably before opening day.
KluberSociety
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Even before the injury I feel like Naylor should be thought of as an "emergency outfielder" rather than anything resembling a full-time one. If we're throwing him in RF again after this injury, that's not a very good sign for the rest of our OF. I do think the idea of Naylor as a platoon in the future makes some sense if he never reaches his potential but more at 1B (which I know doesn't fit our current organization).