Early 22 GM Thread! (Trade Ideas here)

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hockeyjohn

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Launching the continuing angle where JRam is not extended:

(Y) = 40 Man roster protection is required
(N) = 40 Man roster protection is not required
Note: These deal(s) net as no change to the 40 Man Roster Protection

Indians get:
Outfielders: Jo Adell (Y), Lourdes Gurriel Jr (Y) and Jordyn Adams (Y)
Infielder: Jordan Groshans (N)
Starting Pitchers: Sam Bachman (N) and Kyle Muller (Y)
Relief Pitcher: Ky Bush (N)
Catcher: Williams Contreras (Y)
Cash: $ 7 MM

The Indians sacrifice:
Jose Ramirez (Y)
Zach Plesac (Y)
Andres Gimenez (Y)
Ethan Hankins (Y)
Carson Tucker (Y)

Would you make a deal where the Guardians sacrifice these five guys for those eight guys and $ 7 MM in cash?
According to Fangraphs Roster Resource - Tucker is not rule 5 eligible until December 2024 and Hankins and Adams until December 2022 so we add 4 40 man and lose 3 so that leaves one roster space less for our own prospects. So by your trade, it actually those 8 guys for our possible 6 guys with a possible rule 5 loss of a prospect that we can't protect. Another comment - Would the Angels want to part with Bachman and Bush with their constant need of pitching? Just adding some things to consider when discussing this proposal.
 

Criznit

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On paper, yes, because he is a plus fielder and would be a nice bat in the lineup OPS wise... I dont think he is within budget though... he can easily be a 4 WAR type of player since positive oWAR and dWAR so I dont think he would be within the ten mil range the Guardians are looking to spend max on one free agent player. I think he will get at least a 4/80 if not more and that's not something we can do for 22... Now another reason why we wouldn't offer that is his road/home splits... they are too far apart not to mention how much the ballpark he plays in factors in but he has had good career numbers playing in American League Central ball parks so it may not be too much of a factor...
If he can get 4 years at 20 mil a season then why would the Yankees move on? He should get between 10-11 million in his final year of arby.

Think the Yanks will try to trade him myself.
 

sportscoach

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If he can get 4 years at 20 mil a season then why would the Yankees move on? He should get between 10-11 million in his final year of arby.

Think the Yanks will try to trade him myself.

Yanks could extend him as well but we will see
 

Gson

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According to Fangraphs Roster Resource - Tucker is not rule 5 eligible until December 2024 and Hankins and Adams until December 2022 so we add 4 40 man and lose 3 so that leaves one roster space less for our own prospects. So by your trade, it actually those 8 guys for our possible 6 guys with a possible rule 5 loss of a prospect that we can't protect. Another comment - Would the Angels want to part with Bachman and Bush with their constant need of pitching? Just adding some things to consider when discussing this proposal.
The carson tucker rule 5 thing is true..

In almost every case.. a rule 5 prospect that might be lost.. should be lost..

The Angels would be getting a bona fide ML starting pitcher (Plesac) and another upside SP that has an ETA to the ML's in 2023. The two pitchers mentioned have ETA's of 2024. The Angels have a more urgent / now need for SP's.. while the Guardians don't. The Angels are desperate for a REAL ML SS.. and they get that too..

As far as parting goes.. everyone wants to keep every one of their prospects.. it's just unrealistic..

Thanks for responding..
 

sportscoach

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Launching the continuing angle where JRam is not extended:

(Y) = 40 Man roster protection is required
(N) = 40 Man roster protection is not required
Note: These deal(s) net as no change to the 40 Man Roster Protection

Indians get:
Outfielders: Jo Adell (Y), Lourdes Gurriel Jr (Y) and Jordyn Adams (Y)
Infielder: Jordan Groshans (N)
Starting Pitchers: Sam Bachman (N) and Kyle Muller (Y)
Relief Pitcher: Ky Bush (N)
Catcher: Williams Contreras (Y)
Cash: $ 7 MM

The Indians sacrifice:
Jose Ramirez (Y)
Zach Plesac (Y)
Andres Gimenez (Y)
Ethan Hankins (Y)
Carson Tucker (Y)

Would you make a deal where the Guardians sacrifice these five guys for those eight guys and $ 7 MM in cash?

No, because we go backwards in 22 on paper... We trade an all-star 3B and a proven MLB MOR SP for Guirrel and a bunch of unproven players... We swapped a good 9+ WAR for 3 WAR and a million unknowns...

Guirrel and Adell I can deal with, but moving JRam and Plesac and only getting prospects (Adell to me is still one) plus one MLB proven back, we may as well trade Guirrel and Amed and plan for 23 not 22 since we lose our only legit 3 hole hitter...

Adams hasn't even proven he can hit in the minors, and he is Rule 5 Eligible, so I dont want him on paper at all, I'd rather just go Paris/Vera there since both guys have time before rule 5 and they are still very young. So Adams is a no for me...

William Contreras isn't as good of a prospect as Lavastida in all honesty. He doesn't improve hitting, defense etc. If anything he doesn't do anything well enough to stay in the bigs in my mind... I'd take him for cheap/throw in, but nothing more. I think he's gonna bust...

Langeliers I would take in a deal, but honestly I doubt Atlanta would part with him...

Groshans and Bachman on paper I am all for... Bush is borderline but the upside and whatnot is there, so I would definitely take him prospect wise...

Muller looks like Hentges in some ways, I think he flops as a starter. His walk ratio is way to high and that's not a normal target for the Indians at all. Normally they want high command guys...
 

sportscoach

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@Gson

Honestly for me to lose JRam, I'd better be getting an army back of prospects/players. There is a good reason why Toronto couldn't get him from us and that is because the price is way to high... I'd better get Moreno, Groshans, Hoglund, Lopez, Smith and another prospect at least for him... Thats his going price, if you can give me 7 of your top 10 prospects, then I'd think about it...
 

CDAV45

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@Gson

Honestly for me to lose JRam, I'd better be getting an army back of prospects/players. There is a good reason why Toronto couldn't get him from us and that is because the price is way to high... I'd better get Moreno, Groshans, Hoglund, Lopez, Smith and another prospect at least for him... Thats his going price, if you can give me 7 of your top 10 prospects, then I'd think about it...
I don't need or want the lower level guys. If I'm trading JRam it will be for guys that are ready/near ready to contribute to a championship. For me it would have to be Groshans, Moreno, and Hernandez and contingent on a seperate deal for a 3B. It's an overpay for Toronto, but I'm not giving up JRam for anything less because his play at 3B cannot be replaced. Hernandez and Moreno should improve the offense significantly at their positions. I would then look to trade for another young, controllable 3B that is blocked. Vientos would be a good target IMO. Maybe they could deal Plesac to the Mets for Vientos and JD Davis. You could then pencil Davis in as the starting LFer and insurance for 1B and 3B.

In Columbus you could have Lavastida at C, Groshans at 1B, Rocchio at SS, Arias at 3B, Freeman at 2B, Jones in LF, Kwan in CF, Benson in RF and Gonzalez in DH/LF.

I don't for one second think this is realistic, but it's what it would take for me to trade JRam. The question would be which team is more loaded, the Guardians or the Clippers?
 

Gson

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@Gson

Honestly for me to lose JRam, I'd better be getting an army back of prospects/players. There is a good reason why Toronto couldn't get him from us and that is because the price is way to high... I'd better get Moreno, Groshans, Hoglund, Lopez, Smith and another prospect at least for him... Thats his going price, if you can give me 7 of your top 10 prospects, then I'd think about it...
I don't want an army (I'll take it.. but).. I want what's fair or close to fair, either way.. The Groshans/Moreno/Hernandez return is not fair.. Switch out Hernandez for Gurriel Jr and it's closer to fair...and solves three of the four priorities needed to put the Guardians on a path to a more complete competitive team for several years to come.. Looking at the remaining teams in the playoffs.. all four are more complete..(or, have the ability to cover the weaknesses of the club).. The Guardians cannot compete with the elite teams while having the worst outfield in the league.. not having a LHRP (Ky Bush).. and not having a mix of RHSP's and LHSP's in the starting rotation.

It's the cards (economic restrictions) we're dealt with that makes considering many of these "changes"...

BTW.. the question about 3B (in the event JRam is dealt).. Arias/Palacios/G-Rod/M-Tol/Bracho all qualify at that spot.. Yu Chang too.. It wouldn't require an additional deal to fill most of the void.. but.. as always.. being open to suggestion for our club is essential..

Thoughts?...
 

CalBuckeyeRob

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Given the pressure soon to occur to the 40 man roster, from a timing perspective, does a Jose Ramirez trade for multiple guys more likely occur before or after the winter meetings and Rule 5?
 

sportscoach

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If I am the Blue Jays, I am not moving Hernandez or Gurriel for JRam. I want to finish my lineup. With the group I have, I have a top 5 offense in all of baseball and getting JRam, I want to make sure it is number one... Hernandez is also projected to be out of the Guardians price range... Guirrel isn't, so from the Guardians side Hernandez is out of the discussion even if we trade JRam...

Blue jays honestly be looking for pitching first before hitting since Matz and Ray are both free agents and they don't have MLB proven pitching to replace them yet. With a lot of guys free agents in 24, they will want to win in 22 or 23 while getting the young guys (Biggio, Bichette, Guerrero) all extended.
 

sportscoach

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Given the pressure soon to occur to the 40 man roster, from a timing perspective, does a Jose Ramirez trade for multiple guys more likely occur before or after the winter meetings and Rule 5?

JRam will be after Rule 5 draft and before spring training. We will try to get the extension done in that time, but if it's not done before spring training that's sadly when he comes available in a trade. The player option needs to be picked up within like 5 days of the season ending but the extension would give him a nice signing bonus etc that would put his salary in a sense up to that 20+ million dollar mark in 22. If he is moved it will be close to spring training.
 

CATS44

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Gallo is a rental that would cost more than I want to pay. He also Ks more than our lineup can afford.

It we are gonna fantasize, fantasize about Schwarber.
 

Gson

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JRam will be after Rule 5 draft and before spring training. We will try to get the extension done in that time, but if it's not done before spring training that's sadly when he comes available in a trade. The player option needs to be picked up within like 5 days of the season ending but the extension would give him a nice signing bonus etc that would put his salary in a sense up to that 20+ million dollar mark in 22. If he is moved it will be close to spring training.
GM Meeting..the deals are laid out...

due diligence occurs...

Winter Meetings.. the deals are closed...
 

sportscoach

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GM Meeting..the deals are laid out...

due diligence occurs...

Winter Meetings.. the deals are closed...

There is a bunch of deals not done at the winter meetings...
 

Criznit

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Gallo is a rental that would cost more than I want to pay. He also Ks more than our lineup can afford.

It we are gonna fantasize, fantasize about Schwarber.

I don't think anyone is fantasizing Gallo's acquisition, merely pointing out he might be in a precarious position entering the off-season/2022 season. The Yanks may like some of our prospects, its worth looking at before deciding it will cost too much. Yanks could use some help at SS, or maybe Gio hangs, IDK.

As of now and this may certainly change, his current contract is 10-12 million in arby and a QO consideration. Does he fit our needs? Kinda.... Are there better or more complete options? Certainly..
 

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