Early 22 GM Thread! (Trade Ideas here)

[Gson]

OK @CATS, you want to win it all without dealing Ramirez then let's do it. To hell with the farm system. It will take 3 offseason trades to fill Progressive field up and here they are:

1. A 3 way deal between the Guardians, Mets, and Pirates. The Mets get Hayes from the Pirates and Sandlin from us. The Pirates get Mauricio, Valera, and Vientos. We get Alonso, McCann, McNeil, and Yajure.

2. A deal between the Guardians and the Orioles that has Espino, Freeman, Plesac, and Jones going to Baltimore with Means and Mullins coming to Cleveland.

3. This deal is another 3 way, but this time it is Cleveland, Seattle, and Arizona involved. Cleveland sends Rosario to Seattle and McKenzie to Arizona. Seattle sends Haniger to Cleveland and DeLoach to Arizona. Arizona sends Marte to Cleveland.

When the smoke clears at Progressive Field we'll have a rotation that looks like this:
1. Bieber
2. Means
3. Civale
4. Quantrill
5. Yajure/Morris/Morgan/Hentges/Mejia/whoever else

...and a lineup that looks like this:
C- McCann
1B- Alonso
2B- McNeil
3B- Ramirez
SS- Marte
LF- Haniger
CF- Straw
RF- Mullins
DH- Reyes

I used the values at the BTV sight to keep things fair(according to them anyway), and I think I just came in my pants. Want to know something funny? JRam would still be the highest paid Guardian. Unless I'm mistaken the payroll would be under $80M, and likely in the mid 70's.

We've hit the farm system very hard, but how in the hell would you even pitch to that lineup?

a deep lineup that will strike out some.. but would otherwise be tough to go through regularly.

Losing Espino / Freeman / Valera / McStix and Plesac is very hard, indeed.. Adding back Means covers most of what is lost by McStix..

Try this one on for size/fit/finish:

Three trades.. a three way with the cardinals & marlins.. and a follow up deal with the marlins..and one with the M's.. The Guardians lose Jose Ramirez, Zach Plesac, Angel Martinez, Nolan Jones, and Carson Tucker.. The Guardians shed approximately 10 MM (including one of Bebo/Hedgie) while adding back Haniger who should cost $ 6 MM +/-. The Guardians losses are not minor ! The Guardians also add Brandon Williamson (M's) Dax Fulton (SP) Joe Mack (C) & Eury Perez (SP). This gives the Guardians a catching core of Ivan Herrera, Joe Mack and Bo Naylor.

C - Ivan Herrera / retained vet
1B - Bobby Bradley
2B - Tommy Edman
3B - Nolan Gorman
SS - Amed Rosario
LF - JJ Bleday
CF - Myles Straw
RF - Mitch Haniger

SP1 Shane Bieber
SP2 Aaron Civale
SP3 Cal Quantrill Jr.
SP4 Trison McKenzie
SP5 Eli Morgan

There are about six names that can be considered for spots in the starting rotation. Don't sleep on Kyle Nelson Cody Morris or Carlos Vargas..among many others..

The bullpen remains effectively unchanged:

CL - Emmanuel Clase
SU1 - James Karinchak
SU2 - Sam Hentges
SU3 - Nick Sandlin
SU4 - Anthony Gose
SU5 - Trevor Stephan
SU6 - Franklyn Perez
Mop / Long Relief - JC Mejia/Scott Moss/Joey Cantillo/others..

and several others..

The payroll is embarrassingly low.. only Haniger, the retained vet catcher, and Rosario are making any kind of salary. Even Shane Bieber will be able to see that with these trades, the depth of the farm and the new additions to the farm, this is going to remain a strong contender for the AL Central in 2022 and onward.. Perhaps, if an extension is to be made..it will be with Bieber.. ?..

Thoughts?..

 

[CATS44]

One major trade is difficult. It took eight months to pull off the Bauer trade, because it took time to find a third team.

Three major trades involving four teams is impossible, because in reality it is a four team trade involving a dozen players. But worse than that, it involves a dozen contracts, four player personnel departments, financial officers, multiple attorneys for each team. You are probably talking about at least fifty decision makers and advisors, all who have to be in agreement at the same time. If one person adamantly says no, the house of cards come down.

The days of two GMs having dinner and writing things down on a napkin, then telling everybody after the fact, are long gone.

And its a good thing. There is no way that Frank Lane could have traded Rocky Colavito and Norm Cash for crap today.

You also have to look at a trade from every angle for every team involved. Thats hard enough to do with two teams. I have proposed one specific trade broken down into two options. I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box, so it took me a week to figure out why and how both teams would be interested. It would take me six months to look into everything for four teams.

 

[sportscoach]

I think for the most part everyone agrees that only moving for one MLB bat won't be enough to get over the hump. Getting one MLB bat is well within the teams means, but what are we willing to give up to get the second one?

 

[CATS44]

One 4 for one trade for a younger OF that will cost us $3-5 mil.

One short term FA OF/1B that will cost us $8-10 mil.

I've listed most of the targets for both.

 

[Gson]

I think for the most part everyone agrees that only moving for one MLB bat won't be enough to get over the hump. Getting one MLB bat is well within the teams means, but what are we willing to give up to get the second one?

Unless that one trade encompasses two bats.. then one move...

I don't know about any hump, though...

As far as what to give up.. it's more valuable to know what won't be given up.. like Arias, Espino.. maybe one other prospect.. EVERYONE else is open for consideration..

 

[CDAV45]

One major trade is difficult. It took eight months to pull off the Bauer trade, because it took time to find a third team.

Three major trades involving four teams is impossible, because in reality it is a four team trade involving a dozen players. But worse than that, it involves a dozen contracts, four player personnel departments, financial officers, multiple attorneys for each team. You are probably talking about at least fifty decision makers and advisors, all who have to be in agreement at the same time. If one person adamantly says no, the house of cards come down.

The days of two GMs having dinner and writing things down on a napkin, then telling everybody after the fact, are long gone.

And its a good thing. There is no way that Frank Lane could have traded Rocky Colavito and Norm Cash for crap today.

You also have to look at a trade from every angle for every team involved. Thats hard enough to do with two teams. I have proposed one specific trade broken down into two options. I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box, so it took me a week to figure out why and how both teams would be interested. It would take me six months to look into everything for four teams.

Whatever, go ahead and take a big stinky shit all over my dreams.

 

[CDAV45]

a deep lineup that will strike out some.. but would otherwise be tough to go through regularly.

Losing Espino / Freeman / Valera / McStix and Plesac is very hard, indeed.. Adding back Means covers most of what is lost by McStix..

Try this one on for size/fit/finish:

Three trades.. a three way with the cardinals & marlins.. and a follow up deal with the marlins..and one with the M's.. The Guardians lose Jose Ramirez, Zach Plesac, Angel Martinez, Nolan Jones, and Carson Tucker.. The Guardians shed approximately 10 MM (including one of Bebo/Hedgie) while adding back Haniger who should cost $ 6 MM +/-. The Guardians losses are not minor ! The Guardians also add Brandon Williamson (M's) Dax Fulton (SP) Joe Mack (C) & Eury Perez (SP). This gives the Guardians a catching core of Ivan Herrera, Joe Mack and Bo Naylor.

C - Ivan Herrera / retained vet
1B - Bobby Bradley
2B - Tommy Edman
3B - Nolan Gorman
SS - Amed Rosario
LF - JJ Bleday
CF - Myles Straw
RF - Mitch Haniger

SP1 Shane Bieber
SP2 Aaron Civale
SP3 Cal Quantrill Jr.
SP4 Trison McKenzie
SP5 Eli Morgan

There are about six names that can be considered for spots in the starting rotation. Don't sleep on Kyle Nelson Cody Morris or Carlos Vargas..among many others..

The bullpen remains effectively unchanged:

CL - Emmanuel Clase
SU1 - James Karinchak
SU2 - Sam Hentges
SU3 - Nick Sandlin
SU4 - Anthony Gose
SU5 - Trevor Stephan
SU6 - Franklyn Perez
Mop / Long Relief - JC Mejia/Scott Moss/Joey Cantillo/others..

and several others..

The payroll is embarrassingly low.. only Haniger, the retained vet catcher, and Rosario are making any kind of salary. Even Shane Bieber will be able to see that with these trades, the depth of the farm and the new additions to the farm, this is going to remain a strong contender for the AL Central in 2022 and onward.. Perhaps, if an extension is to be made..it will be with Bieber.. ?..

Thoughts?..

Yeah.......mines better. LOL

 

[sportscoach]

Yeah.......mines better. LOL

Lol am I allowed to say my moves are better than all of yours!

Well once the World Series is done, we will know...

 

[CDAV45]

Lol am I allowed to say my moves are better than all of yours!

Well once the World Series is done, we will know...

Only if I ask your "thoughts". Otherwise just agree with what I'm rambling about.

 

[sportscoach]

Only if I ask your "thoughts". Otherwise just agree with what I'm rambling about.

But... but... but... I still like mine better! lol

We do need some actually news. If not somehow we will end up with Mike Trout in a trade for Zimmer and a peanut butter and jelly sandwich from Costco...

 

[CATS44]

Everybody...every prospect...is available, if it makes the Guardians significantly better over the next three years.

 

[CDAV45]

Everybody...every prospect...is available, if it makes the Guardians significantly better over the next three years.

Key words being "three years". They won't give up a prospect like Espino for a rental. Or at least I don't think they will.

 

[Gson]

Key words being "three years". They won't give up a prospect like Espino for a rental. Or at least I don't think they will.

It's doubtful they'll trade away Espino at all.. perhaps not until he is approaching his free agency.. if he is fortunate.. stays healthy and stays after his craft... Deals should give the opportunity for the Guardians to be at least equal in the current year.. and improve/become better as the years go by..

There was a trade suggested by Appletax, # 59457... that seems to be a single deal that covers the vast majority of what more than one poster including myself have suggested would require 3 trades.. Perhaps a small change, removing a 2.7 value 3B for a LHRP or a different 1B.. IDK.. but it's posted for all to see and comment..

 

[CDAV45]

It's doubtful they'll trade away Espino at all.. perhaps not until he is approaching his free agency.. if he is fortunate.. stays healthy and stays after his craft... Deals should give the opportunity for the Guardians to be at least equal in the current year.. and improve/become better as the years go by..

There was a trade suggested by Appletax, # 59457... that seems to be a single deal that covers the vast majority of what more than one poster including myself have suggested would require 3 trades.. Perhaps a small change, removing a 2.7 value 3B for a LHRP or a different 1B.. IDK.. but it's posted for all to see and comment..

I would have to be a very special player coming back in the deal. He's a rare talent for sure.

 

[CDAV45]

But... but... but... I still like mine better! lol

We do need some actually news. If not somehow we will end up with Mike Trout in a trade for Zimmer and a peanut butter and jelly sandwich from Costco...

Ehhhh, it's all in good fun. When the dust settles and the 22 season starts, we can all look back and ask WTF were we thinking.