Early 22 GM Thread! (Trade Ideas here)

[Benway]

If Fukudome is considered a successful acquisition, consider this.

Yeah, but his name was literally "Fuk U Do Me".

Priceless!

 

[CATS44]

Karinchak for Adell?

Interesting.

But the Rincon for Giles comparison is a bit off.

Rincon at the time was probably a better reliever than Karinchak...without the question marks.

But Adell isn't in the same area code as Giles was. Giles was coming off a 4 WAR season. He had already put up 7.7 fWAR in slightly less than a full two seasons of PAs.

At the time of the trade, Giles was what guys like Laureano and Reynolds are today.

So far, Adell is more like Zimmer and Frazier.

Still, its a trade I would be tempted to make. The Angels wouldnt.

 

[Gson]

Karinchak for Adell?

Interesting.

But the Rincon for Giles comparison is a bit off.

Rincon at the time was probably a better reliever than Karinchak...without the question marks.

But Adell isn't in the same area code as Giles was. Giles was coming off a 4 WAR season. He had already put up 7.7 fWAR in slightly less than a full two seasons of PAs.

At the time of the trade, Giles was what guys like Laureano and Reynolds are today.

So far, Adell is more like Zimmer and Frazier.

Still, its a trade I would be tempted to make. The Angels wouldnt.

Well.... Karinchak is going to have Andres Gimenez carrying his golf clubs, Konner Pilkington will be his forecaddy and JC Mejia will be driving the golf cart.. but tell him it's a limo.. He likes that. This is the four man team heading to Anaheim.. Of course.. Jo Adell and his 15 game breakout season (massive 15 game breakout) will need some pals too. Two of them ! Those pals don't need 40 man roster protection, unlike everyone coming from the Guardians..

There were several other differences as well..the Indians outfield was a bit more crowded with absolute studs.. as an example..

 

[CDAV45]

The Trade Value site is fun to play around with, but its full of hocum.

According to it, trading Arias for Civale would be an even trade. Anybody here interested in trading Civale for someone else's Arias.

And would you trade Civale and Franmil for a Plesac?

Interesting, though, on how it values our prospects. According to its values, our prospects go...

Rocchio
Freeman
Jones
Valera
Arias
Espino
Naylor
Martinez
Tucker
Williams
Allen, jr
Lavastida
G Rodriguez
Burns
Halpin

**********

Please, Lord, please....

Let the Orioles, A's, and Pirates use this site as a guide.

I've gone back and forth with the site's director about the values assigned to many players. It's not a "guide" and they use a formula contrived of many different factors. Clearly performance of some prospects weighs more heavily than others. Otherwise Peyton Battenfield would be assigned a measly 2.5 value. It's not like he just broke out this season. The same can be said for LT Allen, although his value is a little higher than Battenfield's.

It's fun to play around on that site, but it by no means would ever be used by any GM's to conduct a deal. More of a predicting tool would be the best description I think.

 

[Gson]

I've gone back and forth with the site's director about the values assigned to many players. It's not a "guide" and they use a formula contrived of many different factors. Clearly performance of some prospects weighs more heavily than others. Otherwise Peyton Battenfield would be assigned a measly 2.5 value. It's not like he just broke out this season. The same can be said for LT Allen, although his value is a little higher than Battenfield's.

It's fun to play around on that site, but it by no means would ever be used by any GM's to conduct a deal. More of a predicting tool would be the best description I think.

More of a sanity check than an IRL evaluation tool.. although..the site administrator claims agreement on IRL trades to a high degree.. whatever that means..

 

[PPark]

Uhhhhh Joey Gallo produced a total of 4.6 WAR between Texas and NY. We didn't have anyone sniff that kind of production so your "solid hitter" assessment appears to be a little inaccurate. Wisdom produced 2.3 WAR in about half of a season's worth of AB(338). Again, we didn't have anyone close to being that productive. I don't quite know what to make of Happ. He's put up some pretty good numbers in the past, but was a bit underwhelming this season. His history suggests that he's better than he was this season, but I'm not paying top dollar for him. He would make this team better in its current standing, but I doubt he's the best available option.

Yeah it took me an eternity to find the time but better late than never.

The issue with low-contact hitters is consistency:

Gallo .434 .515 1.496

Yes. You read that right 2.011 OPS over 132 PA in 2021.

The rest of the year:

.130 .293 .161 (.454 OPS) over 484 PA in 2021 with 13 RBI.

That isn’t unusual for these type of hitters. Gallo was non-existent offensively for nearly 80% of the season. The way production comes matters. When you multiply these type of hitters in a lineup you’ll have an issue scoring runs.
An entire lineup of this type? You’ll maul opponents on your way to 50 wins in a 162 game season.

 

[CATS44]

Yeah it took me an eternity to find the time but better late than never.

The issue with low-contact hitters is consistency:

Gallo .434 .515 1.496

Yes. You read that right 2.011 OPS over 132 PA in 2021.

The rest of the year:

.130 .293 .161 (.454 OPS) over 484 PA in 2021 with 13 RBI.

That isn’t unusual for these type of hitters. Gallo was non-existent offensively for nearly 80% of the season. The way production comes matters. When you multiply these type of hitters in a lineup you’ll have an issue scoring runs.
An entire lineup of this type? You’ll maul opponents on your way to 50 wins in a 162 game season.

This

 

[CalBuckeyeRob]

Yeah it took me an eternity to find the time but better late than never.

The issue with low-contact hitters is consistency:

Gallo .434 .515 1.496

Yes. You read that right 2.011 OPS over 132 PA in 2021.

The rest of the year:

.130 .293 .161 (.454 OPS) over 484 PA in 2021 with 13 RBI.

That isn’t unusual for these type of hitters. Gallo was non-existent offensively for nearly 80% of the season. The way production comes matters. When you multiply these type of hitters in a lineup you’ll have an issue scoring runs.
An entire lineup of this type? You’ll maul opponents on your way to 50 wins in a 162 game season.

Why do your hitters have to get hot together? Is lineup consistency better? Sure. But history says your run differential is a pretty accurate predictor of record and it has no idea how many 12-2 wins are mixed with the 2-1 losses.

 

[CATS44]

To have a consistently productive lineup, you have to fill it with pieces that fit together. Thats why there is so much talk, using phrases like 'one thru nine' and 'extending the lineup.'

IMO the key is consistent OBP with enough pop to turn one run innings into a few crooked numbers.

 

[CDAV45]

Yeah it took me an eternity to find the time but better late than never.

The issue with low-contact hitters is consistency:

Gallo .434 .515 1.496

Yes. You read that right 2.011 OPS over 132 PA in 2021.

The rest of the year:

.130 .293 .161 (.454 OPS) over 484 PA in 2021 with 13 RBI.

That isn’t unusual for these type of hitters. Gallo was non-existent offensively for nearly 80% of the season. The way production comes matters. When you multiply these type of hitters in a lineup you’ll have an issue scoring runs.
An entire lineup of this type? You’ll maul opponents on your way to 50 wins in a 162 game season.

The issue with hitting in general is consistency. The best hitters are successful around 30% of the time and shifting has put a dent in those types unless they can power the ball in a gap or over the wall. Filling a lineup with punch and judy hitters will get you nowhere IMO. There just aren't that many JRam's to be had so your either going to try to get some power that comes with flaws or you're going to try to get some consistent hitters that just can't string enough hits together often enough to make a difference. Pick your poison I guess. I just know when we're down a run or 2 I don't want to see a lineup full of weak ass hitters like we had this year. JRam and Franmil carried a large burden for this team in 21. That burden needs to be spread around a bit if this team is going to win anything.

I'm not a Gallo fan and an average below the Mendoza line is pretty lousy. With an OPS+ of 122 I think it's safe to say that when he did put the bat on the ball he did damage. I don't know if those came against shitty pitchers or how many of those 38 HR and 13 2B actually helped win games. I just know that what he produced wasn't touched by a single OFer wearing a Cleveland uniform and it needs addressed before the 22 season gets started.

 

[sportscoach]

The issue with hitting in general is consistency. The best hitters are successful around 30% of the time and shifting has put a dent in those types unless they can power the ball in a gap or over the wall. Filling a lineup with punch and judy hitters will get you nowhere IMO. There just aren't that many JRam's to be had so your either going to try to get some power that comes with flaws or you're going to try to get some consistent hitters that just can't string enough hits together often enough to make a difference. Pick your poison I guess. I just know when we're down a run or 2 I don't want to see a lineup full of weak ass hitters like we had this year. JRam and Franmil carried a large burden for this team in 21. That burden needs to be spread around a bit if this team is going to win anything.

I'm not a Gallo fan and an average below the Mendoza line is pretty lousy. With an OPS+ of 122 I think it's safe to say that when he did put the bat on the ball he did damage. I don't know if those came against shitty pitchers or how many of those 38 HR and 13 2B actually helped win games. I just know that what he produced wasn't touched by a single OFer wearing a Cleveland uniform and it needs addressed before the 22 season gets started.

Gallo is also a legit OF defender... A lineup always needs a guy like him honestly, but we don't have the hitters who get on base in front of him. We don't have a legit 6-9, heck, we don't have a legit 1-2...

 

[KluberSociety]

I honestly just don't think there's a big difference between how you accomplish production. It's easy to point to someone like Gallo and call him 'inconsistent' but he's still drawing walks when the HRs aren't falling and he's one piece in a lineup of 9. The impact of the kind of player (given that they have equal wRC+'s) is very minimal. However, for the future I do see contact skills being a bit more valuable than power ones due to all the pitchers being developed with K stuff. A lot of hitters seem to hit a sort of "K-wall" where they start striking out too much in some level and really don't have much MLB viability as a result (see: Bradley Zimmer, Benson, etc).

 

[Gson]

Hmmm... Gallo is a hard pass for me..

Gallo didn't just hit poorly.. he hit poorly all season, in general.. and really stunk it up as a Yankee (boo hoo ).. He sucked for the Rangers all of last season.. following an on again/off again couple of years where he sold out for power numbers in a park where the ball flies during the heat of the summer.. He's a poorer version defensively of Brad Zimmer without the speed (now).. but he carries an 8 figure contract that is largely based on a half decade ago's production.. The Yankees of the past would be thrilled to give this windmill his walking papers.. As a free agent, they probably will and should.. There has to be at least a dozen guys that are his equal without the baggage..

Maybe, this opinion shouldn't be so sugar coated?..

 

[CATS44]

The idea that high contact, high BABIP, guys are Punch and Judy hitters is bunk.

We don't need more power. We hit more home runs than Chicago, but they scored more runs. Which would you rather have, homers or runs.

Everybody looks a SLG and says Chicago has more power, but it ain't so. Chicago has better contact hitters.

Batting average is a component of SLG. If our guys had hit for the BA that Chicago did, our team would have had a higher SLG and a better OPS...without a single additional home run....and would have scored more runs. We would have been fourth in the AL in scoring.

The emphasis in acquisitions this winter has to be on contact hitters who get on base, not on three outcome batters. Solid defense would be a plus. Straw was a good start.

Unless we don't want to improve.

 

[sportscoach]

The idea that high contact, high BABIP, guys are Punch and Judy hitters is bunk.

We don't need more power. We hit more home runs than Chicago, but they scored more runs. Which would you rather have, homers or runs.

Everybody looks a SLG and says Chicago has more power, but it ain't so. Chicago has better contact hitters.

Batting average is a component of SLG. If our guys had hit for the BA that Chicago did, our team would have had a higher SLG and a better OPS...without a single additional home run....and would have scored more runs. We would have been fourth in the AL in scoring.

The emphasis in acquisitions this winter has to be on contact hitters who get on base, not on three outcome batters. Solid defense would be a plus. Straw was a good start.

Unless we don't want to improve.

Chicago also has a mix of hitters as well, they don't have a one trick pony type of team. We didn't manufacture runs very well in 21... we need more just pure hitters and then the power duo of Bradley and Reyes will see ABs with people on base and statistically we will see more runs. But if they aren't doing well, we still need guys to produce. I would bet we had a winning record with the bottom of the lineup we're getting hits/on base... we have power, now we need OBP/contact guys to come through to get on base for that power...