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Early 22 GM Thread! (Trade Ideas here)

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I hope they intend to move on from Perez. I wish him the best though.

I think signing Gomes is a long shot because there will certainly be several teams bidding on him and that never works out for Cleveland.

Kelly is better than you're giving him credit and is just entering his prime. He's owed $3M in 22 and isn't a FA until 25.

I still like the idea of acquiring Stassi too.

We do not see eye to eye at all for catchers... lol
 
We do not see eye to eye at all for catchers... lol
Well, Perez wasn't worth $7M to a team with a good amount of money to spend so what does that tell you. He hasn't been able to stay on the field either and that is certainly a factor. He can't hit for shit. The pitching staff is mature enough to the point that they can carry their own weight out there and don't need Perez to coddle them any longer. If they do then Hedges can do that as well as Perez and stay healthy doing it. Having Hedges and Perez is redundant, and it doesn't help improve the team. If Perez returns then they'd be pissing in the wind.

We both would like to see Gomes return, but we differ on the likelihood of it happening. That's no biggie.

So our big difference is you think keeping Naylor is somehow detrimental to the Guardians success and I don't. I think common sense should tell you that you would get a lot of pushback on that idea. He won't be ready for another 2-3 yrs and a lot can happen in that time span. Hell, he happened in that time span.

They're going to get another C. They have Hedges. Lavastida will probably be ready sometime late next year. I fail to see the panic in dealing Naylor as part of a package to get a good major league C if that could/would occur.
 
Well, Perez wasn't worth $7M to a team with a good amount of money to spend so what does that tell you. He hasn't been able to stay on the field either and that is certainly a factor. He can't hit for shit. The pitching staff is mature enough to the point that they can carry their own weight out there and don't need Perez to coddle them any longer. If they do then Hedges can do that as well as Perez and stay healthy doing it. Having Hedges and Perez is redundant, and it doesn't help improve the team. If Perez returns then they'd be pissing in the wind.

We both would like to see Gomes return, but we differ on the likelihood of it happening. That's no biggie.

So our big difference is you think keeping Naylor is somehow detrimental to the Guardians success and I don't. I think common sense should tell you that you would get a lot of pushback on that idea. He won't be ready for another 2-3 yrs and a lot can happen in that time span. Hell, he happened in that time span.

They're going to get another C. They have Hedges. Lavastida will probably be ready sometime late next year. I fail to see the panic in dealing Naylor as part of a package to get a good major league C if that could/would occur.

What if Lavastida flames out? Then guess what our options for our roster ends up back to the AAAA catchers... you are banking 100% of Lavastida being an everyday player. Lavastida moved in front of Naylor as MLB ready cause of his bat and athleticism are way better than scouts want to give him credit for. He has very few innings behind the plate and that's what is going to make or break him. Lavastida will make it to the pros cause of his plus bat, but we are hoping he can put the catching all together..

I know full well what Naylors time-line is and he had a horrible 21 when it comes to hitting as well, but the moving up to AA is usually a make or break for prospects, especially hitters. Naylor is still a solid athlete and he has done well behind the plate. We have to see in 22 how he recovers from 21.

Those are your only two C prospects at the current moment with any hope of making the pro roster anytime soon, so any Plesac or JRam trade, you know we will try and get a prospect to get behind/near these two so we can get depth that way...We still may even swap a player like Tena for a young but solid catching prospect...

I actually think you are overestimating Gomes' price tag. Bimbo was thinking a 1/6.5 and MLBtraderumors thought a 2/10... On average via Fangraphs most places have him less than 7 million a season. He stays within the Guardians price point more than likely and honestly I'd sign him for two seasons. I want him being Lavastida's mentor along with Hedges and Alomar...

Stassi possibly could be non-tendered by the Angels... I could have stolen a base off of him in high school. Stassi has no arm and is on the last season of his contract. He would be cheap enough to go easily get, but I don't think he would be better than spending more money for Gomes... I mean Stassi via MLBTR, is projected 2.7 million...

If I was looking for a defensive catcher... McGuire from the Blue Jays is available and he is pre-arb or Ali Sanchez of the Cardinals.. if I was looking for one with more offense... I would love Varsho from the D-Backs but it would have to be Carson Kelly, but his value overall is way below giving up Naylor for even if we did get Marte...
 
What if Lavastida flames out? Then guess what our options for our roster ends up back to the AAAA catchers... you are banking 100% of Lavastida being an everyday player. Lavastida moved in front of Naylor as MLB ready cause of his bat and athleticism are way better than scouts want to give him credit for. He has very few innings behind the plate and that's what is going to make or break him. Lavastida will make it to the pros cause of his plus bat, but we are hoping he can put the catching all together..

I know full well what Naylors time-line is and he had a horrible 21 when it comes to hitting as well, but the moving up to AA is usually a make or break for prospects, especially hitters. Naylor is still a solid athlete and he has done well behind the plate. We have to see in 22 how he recovers from 21.

Those are your only two C prospects at the current moment with any hope of making the pro roster anytime soon, so any Plesac or JRam trade, you know we will try and get a prospect to get behind/near these two so we can get depth that way...We still may even swap a player like Tena for a young but solid catching prospect...

I actually think you are overestimating Gomes' price tag. Bimbo was thinking a 1/6.5 and MLBtraderumors thought a 2/10... On average via Fangraphs most places have him less than 7 million a season. He stays within the Guardians price point more than likely and honestly I'd sign him for two seasons. I want him being Lavastida's mentor along with Hedges and Alomar...

Stassi possibly could be non-tendered by the Angels... I could have stolen a base off of him in high school. Stassi has no arm and is on the last season of his contract. He would be cheap enough to go easily get, but I don't think he would be better than spending more money for Gomes... I mean Stassi via MLBTR, is projected 2.7 million...

If I was looking for a defensive catcher... McGuire from the Blue Jays is available and he is pre-arb or Ali Sanchez of the Cardinals.. if I was looking for one with more offense... I would love Varsho from the D-Backs but it would have to be Carson Kelly, but his value overall is way below giving up Naylor for even if we did get Marte...
There are an unusually large number (4 or 5) of potential Rule V catchers this year that could be considered. Some will be protected, but, all will be available in trade.. A deal where one of these backstops comes to the Guards could be considered:

Ford Proctor (Rays)
Ricardo Genoves (Giants)
Brandon Valenzuela (Padres)
Willie McIver (Rockies)

Source/Link: https://www.mlb.com/news/toughest-t...ule-5-draft-decisions?t=mlb-pipeline-coverage
 
It is insanity to hold on to prospects that you can't use and who have a much better than 50% chance of failure.

We are satiated with SP and MIF prospects, most of whom will fail. Even if every one of them succeeds, we can't play them all. If we bring in a young veteran OF with three/four years of control, the need for Valera disappears.

We have at the moment two years of JRam and three of Bieber. So what should we do, hold on to everybody until they both are gone? Or trade some of them for significant upgrades that make us the best team in the Central?

As we have already seen, Chicago and Detroit will spend to improve their teams. If we don't spend some significant prospect capital, we will fail to keep up....and our window will close.

The FO did not spend the last three/four years acculating SPs and MIFs with the idea that they all would play for Cleveland. It did so with the idea that some of them would be used to improve other areas of the team.

Just like Chicago has done, and Detroit is doing, the time has come to acquire significant MLB talent to enhance a strong, young core.
 
What if Lavastida flames out? Then guess what our options for our roster ends up back to the AAAA catchers... you are banking 100% of Lavastida being an everyday player. Lavastida moved in front of Naylor as MLB ready cause of his bat and athleticism are way better than scouts want to give him credit for. He has very few innings behind the plate and that's what is going to make or break him. Lavastida will make it to the pros cause of his plus bat, but we are hoping he can put the catching all together..

I know full well what Naylors time-line is and he had a horrible 21 when it comes to hitting as well, but the moving up to AA is usually a make or break for prospects, especially hitters. Naylor is still a solid athlete and he has done well behind the plate. We have to see in 22 how he recovers from 21.

Those are your only two C prospects at the current moment with any hope of making the pro roster anytime soon, so any Plesac or JRam trade, you know we will try and get a prospect to get behind/near these two so we can get depth that way...We still may even swap a player like Tena for a young but solid catching prospect...

I actually think you are overestimating Gomes' price tag. Bimbo was thinking a 1/6.5 and MLBtraderumors thought a 2/10... On average via Fangraphs most places have him less than 7 million a season. He stays within the Guardians price point more than likely and honestly I'd sign him for two seasons. I want him being Lavastida's mentor along with Hedges and Alomar...

Stassi possibly could be non-tendered by the Angels... I could have stolen a base off of him in high school. Stassi has no arm and is on the last season of his contract. He would be cheap enough to go easily get, but I don't think he would be better than spending more money for Gomes... I mean Stassi via MLBTR, is projected 2.7 million...

If I was looking for a defensive catcher... McGuire from the Blue Jays is available and he is pre-arb or Ali Sanchez of the Cardinals.. if I was looking for one with more offense... I would love Varsho from the D-Backs but it would have to be Carson Kelly, but his value overall is way below giving up Naylor for even if we did get Marte...
I can do what ifs too. What if Lavastida becomes an all-star and Naylor flames out? What if they both flame out? What if they sign a C and Lavastida continues to progress and becomes very good? What if they trade for a C using Naylor and then get another C prospect back in another trade in the next yr or 2 that's better than Naylor? The possibilities are limitless, but one thing is for certain. The only way Bo Naylor will help this club inside of 3 yrs is if he can help bring a major league player(preferably a C) back in a trade.

I'm all for swapping some of the MIF depth for a good C prospect.

How do you predetermine the success of a major league season based upon a C prospect in AA that's at the very least 2 yrs away?

Hey, you won't here me complain if Gomes is signed for less than what I think it would take. I'm a huge fan and that would be a great offseason gift. I'm not holding my breath, but you can if you think he'll sign for 1/6.5 or 2/10. The fucking Yankmees will give he a 3/21 easily, and their probably not the only team that would do so. I'm guessing there will be 4-5 aggressively trying to sign Yan.

You're so wrong about Stassi that it's not even funny. Not only is he a good receiver with an average arm, he can hit and he can run.

You probably would prefer some C like McGuire from the Blue Jays because you're so caught up in what you think is good behind the plate that you don't give a single shit about the other half of the game. You basically want to continue doing what hasn't been successful. McGuire sucks coach. There will probably be better options in the R5 or on the waiver wire. How you can rip on Stassi out of one side of your mouth and claim you "like" McGuire out of the other is astonishing to me.
 
I can do what ifs too. What if Lavastida becomes an all-star and Naylor flames out? What if they both flame out? What if they sign a C and Lavastida continues to progress and becomes very good? What if they trade for a C using Naylor and then get another C prospect back in another trade in the next yr or 2 that's better than Naylor? The possibilities are limitless, but one thing is for certain. The only way Bo Naylor will help this club inside of 3 yrs is if he can help bring a major league player(preferably a C) back in a trade.

I'm all for swapping some of the MIF depth for a good C prospect.

How do you predetermine the success of a major league season based upon a C prospect in AA that's at the very least 2 yrs away?

Hey, you won't here me complain if Gomes is signed for less than what I think it would take. I'm a huge fan and that would be a great offseason gift. I'm not holding my breath, but you can if you think he'll sign for 1/6.5 or 2/10. The fucking Yankmees will give he a 3/21 easily, and their probably not the only team that would do so. I'm guessing there will be 4-5 aggressively trying to sign Yan.

You're so wrong about Stassi that it's not even funny. Not only is he a good receiver with an average arm, he can hit and he can run.

You probably would prefer some C like McGuire from the Blue Jays because you're so caught up in what you think is good behind the plate that you don't give a single shit about the other half of the game. You basically want to continue doing what hasn't been successful. McGuire sucks coach. There will probably be better options in the R5 or on the waiver wire. How you can rip on Stassi out of one side of your mouth and claim you "like" McGuire out of the other is astonishing to me.

First off no one exactly knows what a prospect will be, but how well a prospect does at AA is actually quite important since it's honestly a huge hurtle for pitchers and hitters... Krieger was a top 15 prospect for us until he hit AA, then he fell off the map cause he did so poorly there. Naylor is one of the younger guys at AA, but he still needs to show he can hit there or he isnt going to be anything but a bust. We have to get a C with team control in a deal if we were to move Bo Naylor... there is no ifs, ands or buts about it...

You have a way different concept on what a catcher should be than I do... I don't really like Stassi since he cannot throw the ball, I can throw better than he can with a bum shoulder... he has thrown out 17 in the last 84 attempts...

To tell ya the truth, it's very possible we can sign Stassi... It's a good probability he gets non-tendered...
 
First off no one exactly knows what a prospect will be, but how well a prospect does at AA is actually quite important since it's honestly a huge hurtle for pitchers and hitters... Krieger was a top 15 prospect for us until he hit AA, then he fell off the map cause he did so poorly there. Naylor is one of the younger guys at AA, but he still needs to show he can hit there or he isnt going to be anything but a bust. We have to get a C with team control in a deal if we were to move Bo Naylor... there is no ifs, ands or buts about it...

You have a way different concept on what a catcher should be than I do... I don't really like Stassi since he cannot throw the ball, I can throw better than he can with a bum shoulder... he has thrown out 17 in the last 84 attempts...

To tell ya the truth, it's very possible we can sign Stassi... It's a good probability he gets non-tendered...
And you don't think that 17 of 84 has anything to do with their pitching staff that is terrible at holding runners? Sometimes you have to look deeper than the surface stats coach. No, Stassi isn't going to throw runners out at the rate that Hedges or Perez does, but he'll be a damn site better in Cleveland due to our pitchers' ability to hold runners.

I'll take that bet on Stassi getting non-tendered. He's a good C and unless the Angels pick someone else up then he'll go nowhere. Good grief, this conversation is silly.

So if the jump to AA is so important(I agree) then you should be wanting to trade Naylor. I specifically said in my original post that I would trade Naylor in a package for a major league C. I believe I mentioned Carson Kelly did I not? Bo is a good C prospect and I like him, but if he can be used to improve the big league club then I'm all for it. I think CATS explained that idea in detail very well. Some prospects are what we like to label as untouchable, but I don't view Naylor in that light. In fact, they are all available in my mind even though nobody would give me what I want for guys like Espino, Rocchio, Arias, Lavastida, and a couple of others.
 
I dont care how good or bad Stassi is. Its irrelevant. He would be a rental.
Yes his contract expires after the 22 season, but that may work perfectly with Lavastida. Besides, I'll be the first to admit that Max Stassi is no Buster Posey so he could probably be signed relatively inexpensively if that was mutually desired. I'm concerned with the 22 season, we can worry about the rest later. Every single one of us probably agrees that we would love to see Gomes signed, but what do you think the chances of that are CATS? There are a few teams out there that need a good C and have the means to invest heavily in acquiring one. Gomes is above average on both sides and he can handle a pitching staff with the best of them.

Right now I kinda feel like our beloved team is caught between a rock and a hard place when it comes to finding a good C and 2 corner OF upgrades. Bimbo stated that Garcia's cost will have to come down before Cleveland can get into talks with him. I'd imagine Conforto is in the same boat. Where does that leave us?
 
Yes his contract expires after the 22 season, but that may work perfectly with Lavastida. Besides, I'll be the first to admit that Max Stassi is no Buster Posey so he could probably be signed relatively inexpensively if that was mutually desired. I'm concerned with the 22 season, we can worry about the rest later. Every single one of us probably agrees that we would love to see Gomes signed, but what do you think the chances of that are CATS? There are a few teams out there that need a good C and have the means to invest heavily in acquiring one. Gomes is above average on both sides and he can handle a pitching staff with the best of them.

Right now I kinda feel like our beloved team is caught between a rock and a hard place when it comes to finding a good C and 2 corner OF upgrades. Bimbo stated that Garcia's cost will have to come down before Cleveland can get into talks with him. I'd imagine Conforto is in the same boat. Where does that leave us?

Canha... then a trade for an OF then I really do believe Gomes is attainable in free agency plus I think he will get a two year deal from us as well. Reason why I say that... Lavastida and Naylor at the current moment will be your catchers on the 40 man in 23. We need someone else outside of Lavastida anyways and id rather have Gomes than Hedges since Hedges just cannot hit...
 
Whoever is acquired at catcher, based on this discussion, will be the back up or equal to Austin Hedges.. and that's not all that bad.. If the Guardians do what was stated by several posters: decline Bebo's option.. resign him for a lower price.. could be the path chosen. The "better the devil you know" approach may be what wins out in the event these C-rentals and other teams' back up catchers aren't able to solve the Guardians problem of finding a back up backstop..

While it won't help this year & perhaps several years.. the 2022 June first entry draft offers an unusually strong group of catchers (including Kevin Parada, my pick for the first Guardians pick in history). The 2021 draft was either equally or stronger w/r to catching talent.. The Guardians will do well to consider catching as an area addressed in the coming two or three drafts as well as international talent acquisition..

The discussions regarding the acquisition of a corner OF'er (or two.. I say, get the first one, then, consider the next one) should have a competing priority for a catcher who can play, either immediately or shortly thereafter and a prospect catcher that can/should be discussed:

Pirates: Bryan Reynolds.. w/ Jacob Stallings [Henry Davis]
Angels: Jo Adell.. w/ Max Stassi [Edgar Quero]
Mariners: Mitch Haniger.. w/ Cal Raleigh [Harry Ford]
Atlanta Braves: Drew Waters.. w/ William Contreras [Shea Langeliers]
LA Dodgers: Gavin Lux.. w/ Austin Barners [Diego Cartaya]
etc..
etc..

Catching remains an area of need, if not equal to OF'ers, close.. Thoughts?.
 
I dont see catching as an equal need to both corners OFs....not even close.

At the worst we end up with superior defense behind the plate as things stand now...which is exactly what this org emphasizes.

And two offensive upgrades in the OF eases the need for offense behind the plate.

Plus, the elephant in the room...the budget. There are teams that can throw money at multiple positions, but the Guardians must prioritize needs. A catching upgrade is at most #3 on the shopping list.

**********

I'd like to have Gomes back at a reasonable cost, but lets not oversell him.

Who has the highest career wRC+?

Gomes, Stallings, Stassi, or Kelly?

If you automatically answered Gomes, you are half right. He and Stassi are at 91. Stallings is at 90. Kelly is at 88. There isn't much difference.

But when you throw defense into the equation, Stallings is the best of the four.
 
Would you trade Espino, Rocchio, Burns and others for Reynolds, Stallings and a lotto ticket?
 
Would you trade Espino, Rocchio, Burns and others for Reynolds, Stallings and a lotto ticket?
Not enough, but if we could save Rocchio by including both Freeman and N. Jones, I'd consider it, but we wouldn't get any lotto ticket back.

Espino, Freeman, N. Jones, Burns, C. Tucker for Reynolds alone, add Lavastida, Curry, one of Frias/Durango/Tolentino for Stallings

And they'd probably still turn it down....
 

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