Early 22 GM Thread! (Trade Ideas here)

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CDAV45

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I get the steep price, but it is for a player with 4 controllable years remaining and he will make minimum wage in 2022.. That's as good as it gets for a perpetually cash strapped team like us.

Also you are hoping/expecting that Reynolds is an All-Star/MVP candidate/etc. in each of those 4 years.. One top prospect a year sounds about right. Also if it comes to it, we trade Reynolds when the time is right and recoup some of our prospect loss.

Again though, I can go either way on this one as long as they make a substantial move or 3 this off-season.
For the sake of conversation let's say Reynolds continues to perform like he has and maybe even gets a little better. What's he gonna make in arbitration? He's gonna cost in not only money, but a plethora of good prospects too. I think we'd be better off trying to get Marte, Yaz, Happ and so on. I doubt anyone is willing to give Pittsburgh what they want just the same as no team will give Cleveland what it demands for JRam. The idea of trading for a corner OF is spot on IMO, just not Reynolds at the current asking price.
 

Criznit

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I agree with this. I'd add Battenfield and Pilkington towards the top of that list. They're most likely not TOR SP Gson, but they are work horse types that should be solid MOR SP when all is said and done. I think Battenfield's ceiling is ever so slightly higher because he limits walks a bit better than Pilkington right now. I'm really looking forward to seeing some Clippers' games if I can find the time between watching my kid play college ball and my work.

Shane Bieber is our undisputed ace and pitchers like him don't grow on trees. I have no delusions that Battenfield, Pilkington, or Allen are Shane Bieber reincarnate, but for S&G's let's look at some numbers:
At the age of 23 Bieber pitched for Akron and Columbus. He gave up 6.3 H9, .8 BB9(unheard of) with 8.7 SO9.
Battenfield at the age of 23 pitched in AA and gave up 5.8 H9, 1.7 BB9(very good) with 11.4 SO9.
Pilkington at the age of 23 pitched in AA and gave up 5.5 H9, 3.5 BB9(needs to improve) with 10.7 SO9.
LT Allen at the age of 22 pitched in A+ and AA and gave up 6.2 H9, 2.1 BB9 with 11.6 SO9.
Curry at the age of 22 pitched across 3 levels which ended in AA and he gave up 6.5 H9, 1.5 BB9(very good), with 10.4 SO9.

Again, I'm not trying to say these guys are Shane Biebers waiting to happen. I'm just pointing out that there is a trend and these guys are nothing to be scoffed at IMO. You can probably add Burns and Nikhazy to that list as well.

All Morris did once sent to Columbus is give up 6.0 H9, 3.0 BB9(like to see it reduced) with a silly 13.7 SO9. I think this dude is for real.

All of Espino, Torres, Vargas, Hankins, and Williams have huge arms and upsides, but are further away than those I listed above. Espino had an amazing 14.9 SO9, but carried a 3.8 BB9 as well. He's only 20 and I don't know if that 3.8 BB9 is even much of a concern when you SO damn near 15 batters per 9IP.

Sorry, got off on a tirade.........again.


Just wanted to add this nugget regarding Espino - his BB9 and K rate both improved quite a bit when he was promoted - shaved off 2BB per 9 from 4.9 to 2.9 and added almost 3 K per 9. His SO9 went from an excellent 13.5 to a staggering 16.2. That was in 42.2IP in Low A and 49.0IP in High A.

They probably start him at LC but hope and wouldn't be surprised if he starts in AA. IMO he is a lot closer to being a year away, not 2.

Edit. Certainly not expecting it but imagine if his improvement curve carries over to 2022 and we see a line of 0.9BB9 -18.9SO9.... Wowza.
 
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DCTribefan

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Just wanted to add this nugget regarding Espino - his BB9 and K rate both improved quite a bit when he was promoted - shaved off 2BB per 9 from 4.9 to 2.9 and added almost 3 K per 9. His SO9 went from an excellent 13.5 to a staggering 16.2. That was in 42.2IP in Low A and 49.0IP in High A.

They probably start him at LC but hope and wouldn't be surprised if he starts in AA. IMO he is a lot closer to being a year away, not 2.

Edit. Certainly not expecting it but imagine if his improvement curve carries over to 2022 and we see a line of 0.9BB9 -18.9SO9.... Wowza.
Exactly why he should not be traded this off-season.
 

CATS44

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I understand what you're saying CATS, but to be fair the farm system hasn't been this good since the early 90's so I don't think we're comparing apples to apples here. Please don't mistake that for the idea that I wouldn't trade any prospects to improve the MLB team because I absolutely would. I guess I just have my limits on how much I'm willing to spend.

I don't recall anyone bemoaning the choosing of Brantley. He was the PTBNL in the CC deal. He was a good hitter, but to claim you knew what he was going to be from the get go is...well...BS.

In hindsight, we didn't give up much to get Miller other than Frazier and that kinda hurts right now even though it was worth it at the time. The point being, he was clearly the best prospect in that deal and where do you think he would rank in this system now?

The Brewers were willing to take Mejia, Chang, Allen, and Armstrong for LuCroy. What Cleveland fan wouldn't make that deal?

In the end, nobody would cry over the loss of one of our top prospects, but when/if they're asking for 3-4 of them then it's time to end the conversation IMO. My point is simply that the asking price is too high for Reynolds and we should shop elsewhere. You're list is good and we could start there.
We are not that far apart, but a little history.

At the time of the CC trade, the PTBNL was a choice between Brantley and a 3B named Green. The general concensus among fans that posted then...and there were about a dozen good ones...that Green was the best choice.

People can deny it now, but very few thought that Brantley would ever amount to much more than a fourth OF.

But Brantley was hitting .319 in the Southern League, at the time the most pitching friendly league in MiLB...with nearly twice as many walks as Ks, but no power. He was, and still is, my prototype.

As soon as I saw him swing a bat in ST, I was certain. He has the most perfect, almost motionless, swing I have ever seen. For several years, against nearly unanimous opposite opinions, I insisted that he would become a very productive hitter.

*******

If today we had Frazier and Mejia, and they were at the point of their careers as they were at the time of the Miller trade, they and Zimmer would our top three prospects...higher rated than anybody we have now.

They were all at minimum 55 FVs. Sheffield would be our second highest rated pitching prospect, behind only Espino...with a 50 FV.

Those ratings/rankings are via fangraphs.

But if you prefer BA, BP, and MLB...all three were ranked higher than anybody we have today, including Espino, across the board...although Zimmer was beginning to fall in BA and BP.

*************

Now compare our situation after the 2015 season to the situation right now. We had basically a .500 team that finished 13.5 games behind the Royals.

We had an anemic offense that finished 11th in runs scored, but we had a promising younger rotation led by a CY winner. We had a young, very good closer and an excellent set up man.

Offensively, we had a handful of core players, and a bunch of promising youngsters. Two of those youngsters had failed in 2015, and another had yet to do much at the MLB level. We also had a bunch of lousy vets. We only had one viable OF. And we had a loaded farm system.

Sound like any team we know? The only major difference was that we did not have a roster crunch.

So, what did the FO do? Since it didn't have a roster crunch, there was no pressure to make an early move, so it brought in four aging FAs to plug holes. Two worked out, two did not.

But when it came to crunch time, the FO was willing to trade off half of its top prospects to win the division.

Because of the roster crunch, our crunch time is now, which is the only major difference between today and November 2015.
 

rmacd

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What trades has Clev - made prospects for a good MLB player? Can only think of one, Frazer & Sheffield for Miller. Must have been several.
 

Criznit

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Baltimore currently has SEVEN open 40 man spots.. Welcome to Cleveland Cedric Mullins or maybe Mancini??
 

CATS44

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What trades has Clev - made prospects for a good MLB player? Can only think of one, Frazer & Sheffield for Miller. Must have been several.
Off hand, I can't think of many prospects for player trades Cleveland has made in the last twenty years.

White and Pomeranz for Ubaldo.

The Miller trade.

Maybe someone else can think of another.
 

petes999

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Can also say Diaz and guy named Maton for Straw (50/50 prospect and rp)
 

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