- Apr 15, 2011
- Reaction score
Yankees DFA Clint Frazier. Flyer?
Damn! I was hoping they were stupid enough to do it. They'd have another Miggy situation if they did.The Detroit Tigers are reportedly not interested in throwing an absurd amount of money towards free agent Carlos Correa. The Houston Astros are going to ha...fansided.com
I don't get the Gurriel Jr. fandom. He's a 2-3 WAR player and that would be setting the bar kind of low IMO. I want nothing to do with him, Biggio, or Kirk from the Blue Jays.Posted in the Thursday MLB Tr Chat:
Shortty: Can the Jays pry Bieber away from Cleveland with an offer of big prospects? I’m thinking Moreno, Pearson and Groshans
Mark P: You're in the ballpark of what it would take to obtain Bieber, but the Guardians would want even more. From Toronto specifically, probably something like Gurriel and another prospect
If the "another prospect" is Hoglund or Lopez, then considered would be mandatory, imho...
The single star player versus the wave of talent is what you're arguing.. Both have merit.. both have risk..I don't get the Gurriel Jr. fandom. He's a 2-3 WAR player and that would be setting the bar kind of low IMO. I want nothing to do with him, Biggio, or Kirk from the Blue Jays.
If I were a Blue Jays' fan then I would be reluctant to give those 3 prospects for Bieber having seen the upside of Pearson. If he's healthy then he's an ace. If he's not then this package isn't good for Cleveland. I think a trade between these 2 teams will be very difficult to commensurate.
I'm not opposed to dealing Bieber, but not until he's down to 2 yrs of control or less or one of the young guns takes the top spot away from him. If this team has any aspirations of being competitive in 22 then dealing Bieber is out of the question. They could survive a Ramirez trade long before a Bieber trade at this time.
The single star player versus the wave of talent is what you're arguing.. Both have merit.. both have risk..
The relative values show that with Gunnar Hoglund as the "other prospect", then the fully burdened value of the deal would have the Blue Jays coughing up 113.9 in value.. while the Guardians would be sacrificing 113.2 in value for Shane, alone.. The deal, using the BTV algorithm as a sanity check is "commensurate"..
Truth be told..if the Guards can get one healthy year out of Lourdes Gurriel Jr and Nate Pearson can give 20 + starts in 2022.. then this would equate to "stealing"!!! Moreno would be akin to the deal from back in the late 80's/early 90's for a more athletic and better throwing Sandy Alomar from the Padres.. all over again.. Moreno is as good as any catcher I've seen at this age...
I like the deal mainly because it takes the Guards catching situation from "holding on with Austin Hedges/hoping for the development of Lava and Bo.. to no one in MLB has a better catching group in the league.. including the orioles"..
I hate losing Shane.. but I can't overlook what our catching situation is.. That's why I'm not the GM..
A pretty good argument could be made that with this theoretical deal.. we would do nothing but compete.. in 2022 and beyond..If we got Moreno, Pearson, Guirrel Jr, Hoglund and Groshans, it would be hard to say no in a lot of ways except for the fact we do want to compete in 22, but long term that would be a great trade...
A pretty good argument could be made that with this theoretical deal.. we would do nothing but compete.. in 2022 and beyond..
The loss of Shane cannot be over stated.. but.. w/ a healthy Nate Pearson delivering 80 to 90 % of the productivity of what Shane brought.. then most of Shane's production will be re-coup'd in the pitching.. Coupling that with the further development/improvement of Plesac, Civale and mostly, the dynamic duo of Quantrill & McKenzie.. and this is a starting pitching staff that can compete..with anyone.. and especially, everyone in the AL Central..
IOW..using the deal as a reason to claim the Guards would not compete in 2022.. is pessimistic.... It's can be stated that it's better to go with the horse you know.. Shane is that.. Pearson isn't and hasn't been.. but he can be... Even you'd agree with that.. Then, adding Gurriel Jr, an ~ 3 WAR player to Left Field (plugging a HUGE hole in the Guards team).. this makes the offense WITH Jose Ramirez that much better..
There is no doubt that both Moreno and Groshans will be making their ML debut with the Jays as things stand right now..or with their new club.. Near ML ready, well thought of, bat first, superb prospects are what paves the way to competing.. Like I said.. it's not my call.. but an argument for the deal can be made.. and not dismissed under the banner of "..they won't compete in 2022..."