Early 22 GM Thread! (Trade Ideas here)

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Tondo

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Well said Tondo. Thank you.

Yes, he wants Reynolds or Mullins and would pay a hefty price to get one of them because he thinks they alone will put us as the division favorites. Ironically, I would pay a hefty price as well, it just wouldn't be with the upper level prospects other than maybe Jones or Bo Naylor if Josh goes with him.

I do agree with CATS that there is more MIFers than will be needed. Where we part ways is I don't know which ones I would keep at this time. That's all I'm trying to say.
Yep, the MIF is the toughest one to figure out right now. Whoever you part with could be the best of the bunch, so for me it would need to be for a good 3+ years controllable bat.

I'd rather keep them for now and find a way to get Happ without including any of them (but throw in one of the ML group of Chang, Miller, Clement).
 

Gson

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.....I am willing to trade "them", I'm just not sure who is "them" at this time and I doubt Chernoff does either.

We would all like to know.
I think Chernoff absolutely knows who he will or won't trade at this point.. your list has many, not all of "them" listed.. Some of the lower level guys that should make your "rather not trade" list include Palacios, Williams, Xzavion and others..

Chernoff makes the big money.. it's his job to know !!..

Thoughts?
 

CDAV45

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I think Chernoff absolutely knows who he will or won't trade at this point.. your list has many, not all of "them" listed.. Some of the lower level guys that should make your "rather not trade" list include Palacios, Williams, Xzavion and others..

Chernoff makes the big money.. it's his job to know !!..

Thoughts?
Yeah I didn't list them all, but Palacios and Xzavion are in the upper levels now and I'm not interested in dealing either of them. I would deal Williams for the right bat, but I'm not looking to trade him so there would have to be a very good reason to do so. A rebuilding team like Pittsburgh may be inclined to take him. Does Williams, Jones, Martinez, and Burns get it done? If not then they want too much for my liking. If they like that return then make it happen.

No, I don't agree that Chernoff knows who he would prefer to deal out of the MIF bunch. Like Tondo said, whoever we part with could end up being the best.
 

CATS44

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The Dolan is Cheap crowd needs to peruse these boards to see who is really cheap...lol.

Prospect value works two ways. We may not know which ones will become truly productive players right now. (History says 30% of the top ones )

But if you wait long enough, you will also learn which 70% won't, and they lose all trade value.

We are not gonna significantly upgrade this team thru free agency. We are also not gonna upgrade it significantly by trading players that even we don't want...Zimmer, Chang, Mercado...or prospects who we don't care that much about.

**********

One thing I did not say was that one acquisition alone would put us at the top of the division.

What I have always said....from the beginning of this thread...is that it would take two...one long term and one short term.

*********

Yes, I did say that amassing SSs was a good thing, because they can often be moved to other positions. We are seeing that with Palacios. We've seen it with Mercado, Jose, and Chisenhall.

But which ones do you want to move now?

*******

And again, you don't answer the question. Waiting ad nauseum to figure out which ones to keep is not an answer. We need MLB players now, not in two or three years. We also need to clear at least four roster spots by March...even if we don't make a major trade. We can't go into the season with one catcher and only seventeen pitchers.

********

I see that Palacios is the new prospect du jour. At this time last year it was Jones. Then it was Miller. Then it was Arias. For some it was Gonzalez, and even Kwan. Now its Richie.

********

We played 13 rookies last year. How did that work out? Now some want to go with another dozen.

We never learn.

But keep on believing....believing that we can contend by fielding the youngest and most inexperienced team in MLB. Keep on believing that a bunch of rookies are gonna hit the ground running, and be immediate impact players Keep on believing that every freaking prospect is gonna be a perennial all star...much to valuable to trade.

Keep on telling yourself that Zimmer, Chang, Frazier, Andy Marte, Matt LaPorta, Alex Escobar, and Alex White never existed. They were just bad dreams, because elite prospects connected to the Indians never fail.

Sleep tight.
 

CDAV45

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Zimmer, Chang, Marte, LaPorta, Escobar, and White absolutely existed. So did Thome, Ramirez, Sabathia, Lindor, JRam, Brantley, Sizemore, Kluber, Carrasco, Bieber, Civale, Plesac, Perez and on and on. All of Zimmer, Frazier, LaPorta, Escobar, and White sustained career changing injuries. Which is why there is strength in numbers. Are you suggesting that someone like Reynolds or Mullins isn't capable of getting injured?

I'd go easy with the "we played 13 rookies last year". Outside of Miller, which one was really a gem in the minors?

Palacios isn't some random prospect selected by some of us just to be stingy. Look at what he's done and doing. Consider the timing of his shoulder injury and the pandemic shutdown. C'mon CATS, you have to be smarter than this.

Waiting to see which ones to keep is absolutely an answer. Just giving up what other teams prefer would be the antithesis of what they've done.

You ever stop and ask yourself while you're bashing the idea of keeping the best prospects why in the fuck would a team like Pittsburgh give up Reynolds for a batch of "I don't knows" and "never will be's"? It's not like he's expensive and the same could be said for Mullins. You've basically got BS coming out of both sides of your mouth.

"We never learn"? This organization is healthier than it's been since the early 90's and we didn't have to suck for decades to get it there. Then, just when it's about to bear fruit you want to sell it off. That's a philosophy I don't share.

Many of these kids aren't 2 or 3 yrs away. You and your exaggerated views and constantly moving goalposts.
 

Gson

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Yeah I didn't list them all, but Palacios and Xzavion are in the upper levels now and I'm not interested in dealing either of them. I would deal Williams for the right bat, but I'm not looking to trade him so there would have to be a very good reason to do so. A rebuilding team like Pittsburgh may be inclined to take him. Does Williams, Jones, Martinez, and Burns get it done? If not then they want too much for my liking. If they like that return then make it happen.

No, I don't agree that Chernoff knows who he would prefer to deal out of the MIF bunch. Like Tondo said, whoever we part with could end up being the best.
I'll compromise on this.. Chernoff has a pretty good idea of who he would prefer to deal.. and who he would prefer to keep.. none are, as you're alluding to, absolute and need more time to fully arrive at a decision..
 

KluberSociety

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Nothing is certain in baseball. With all our OF options the chance is high we can get something reasonable out of some combination of them, enough to fill up maybe one slot with potentially some surplus off the bench.

It's not even like a Zimmer/Mercado platoon isn't significantly over replacement level.

Comparing Palacios/Kwan to Owen Miller and Jones isn't exactly fair either. First off they (in particular Kwan) have put up convincing numbers in AAA beyond just BABIP magic (see: Miller). Jones is still highly regarded, but had never shown anything in AAA prior to 2021 so he's hardly similar.

Per Fangraphs:

Of 275 hitters with at least 800 plate appearances since the start of 2019, Kwan boasts the following accolades:
  • He is one of just two hitters with more walks (10.1%) than strikeouts (9.3%), the other being Isaac Paredes
  • He has the highest ratio of walks to strikeouts (1.09 BB/K)
  • He has the lowest swinging strike rate (3.2%) by more than one-and-a-half percentage points
 

sportscoach

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Nothing is certain in baseball. With all our OF options the chance is high we can get something reasonable out of some combination of them, enough to fill up maybe one slot with potentially some surplus off the bench.

It's not even like a Zimmer/Mercado platoon isn't significantly over replacement level.

Comparing Palacios/Kwan to Owen Miller and Jones isn't exactly fair either. First off they (in particular Kwan) have put up convincing numbers in AAA beyond just BABIP magic (see: Miller). Jones is still highly regarded, but had never shown anything in AAA prior to 2021 so he's hardly similar.

Per Fangraphs:

Of 275 hitters with at least 800 plate appearances since the start of 2019, Kwan boasts the following accolades:
  • He is one of just two hitters with more walks (10.1%) than strikeouts (9.3%), the other being Isaac Paredes
  • He has the highest ratio of walks to strikeouts (1.09 BB/K)
  • He has the lowest swinging strike rate (3.2%) by more than one-and-a-half percentage points

Essentially Kwan knows the strike zone very well... if the kid had more power, he would likely be a top 100 prospect. Since they did add him to the 40 man roster they must of felt he could play in the pros. He isnt flashy, but outside of some power issues and average speed (maybe a little below average) for an OF, he does everything well.
 

CDAV45

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Essentially Kwan knows the strike zone very well... if the kid had more power, he would likely be a top 100 prospect. Since they did add him to the 40 man roster they must of felt he could play in the pros. He isnt flashy, but outside of some power issues and average speed (maybe a little below average) for an OF, he does everything well.
I don't think he lacks speed at all. In his brief minor league career he has stolen 87 bases and been thrown out 9 times. He's a good defensive CFer too. So his power or lack thereof begs the question. Is he a capable LFer? There's really only 1 way to find out. He might be the closest thing to Michael Brantley we've had. If the power he showed in Columbus last season is sustainable then he's a 20 HR hitter with excellent OBP and contact skills. I'd take that with good defense every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Worst case scenario is that he's a damn fine 4th OFer/late inning defensive replacement.

None of this dissuades me from wanting to acquire Vientos though. I like the power and the performance and he could come cheaply as he is blocked at every turn in NY.

When you consider these options, trading for a Reynolds or Mullins seems much more unlikely. I think they'll add an OFer, but it will be somebody like Vientos or Lane Thomas as someone else mentioned. In all honesty, I would be fine with that approach, but I don't blame someone if they would prefer to go "bigger" for Mullins or Reynolds. Even if we don't see eye to eye on how they should approach the 22 season, we all want to see the Guardians win.
 
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Kevalier

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I do.

If were trading Espino and Freeman, we better go after Reynolds first and worry about catcher later.
You do realize that the central component of the deal for the Guardians would be Ketel Marte, All-Star and MVP finalist who is on an insanely team-friendly contract for three more seasons, right?
 

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