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Early 22 GM Thread! (Trade Ideas here)

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Marte deal starts with Plesac or McKenzie. Their ask from Marlins was one of P. Lopez or E. Hernandez plus a top 5 prospect...just for Marte.

So, Plesac+Arias and more for Marte

Then, one of Naylor/Lavastida, comp pick and more for Kelly

More list are a couple of Hankins, Halpin, C. Vargas, Durango, C. Tucker etc
 
Marte deal starts with Plesac or McKenzie. Their ask from Marlins was one of P. Lopez or E. Hernandez plus a top 5 prospect...just for Marte.

So, Plesac+Arias and more for Marte

Then, one of Naylor/Lavastida, comp pick and more for Kelly

More list are a couple of Hankins, Halpin, C. Vargas, Durango, C. Tucker etc
If you're telling me that I can get Marte and Kelly for a package of Plesac, Arias, Naylor, and a comp pick then sign me up. I don't want to see Arias go, but I'll help him pack if we can get Marte and Kelly. Just my opinion.
 
If you're telling me that I can get Marte and Kelly for a package of Plesac, Arias, Naylor, and a comp pick then sign me up. I don't want to see Arias go, but I'll help him pack if we can get Marte and Kelly. Just my opinion.

On paper that makes a ton of sense especially if we feel Allen can take the last spot in the rotation... I don't think we will trade Naylor or Lavastida though...
 
On paper that makes a ton of sense especially if we feel Allen can take the last spot in the rotation... I don't think we will trade Naylor or Lavastida though...
Allen, Morgan, or Morris. Take your pick, but it would be nice to see Allen build some value.

I don't have any evidence nor have I heard any rumors, but my gut tells me Naylor would be available in the right deal. Lavastida........not so much. Looking forward, a combo of Kelly and Lavastida would be pretty solid.
 
I can't recall anyone even mentioning "untouchable" and "Palacios" in the same sentence.

A GM that brings up a prospect that performs well looks like a genius. That's the other side of an assumption that didn't get addressed. There are numerous examples of both. Every year there are rookies the help their teams win, but that doesn't fit the narrative.

Stating that not trading prospects for whichever player preferred is a double edged sword. Either way, there's 1 side of the deal getting the short end of the stick. Especially if their trading a young player controlled for several years. The idea of prospects having a small chance of making it is accurate with lower level prospects. Take the lower level prospects out of the equation and you have a very different picture. Projection is pretty much out the window and that's where the inaccuracy comes into play.

It's been made public that Pittsburgh will not take anything less than a haul for Reynolds. I don't blame them, but you see he's still in a Pirates uniform and their are cost limits to everything. Remove Reynolds name and insert Mullins and the same applies.

Marte's ability to play OF and hit would help this team if he's healthy and the cost to get him would be significantly less than Reynolds or Mullins, but his hamstring issues concern me TBH. Those things never really go away. The WAR numbers mentioned aren't the whole story. In 2019 Marte put up 6.9 WAR in 628 PA and an OPS+ of 149. His OPS+ was 143 last season which is right there with his 2019 production. The big difference in his WAR is that the metrics didn't like his defense last season which was the only anomaly in his career. Defensive metrics aren't worth a shit anyway and I'd guess his defense in a corner OF would be excellent if his hammy's hold up.

Their going make a trade or 2. I think the biggest one will be one of the SP again. If they make a 2nd trade it could be a few prospects for a major league need, but they probably have a list that they will not deal from. The farm is deep enough that they don't have to trade any of the upper level prospects that look like they can help this team win.
Some of this is just plain wrong, but lets concentrate on the part about taking lower level prospects out of the equation of MLB success.

Several researches have been done on just Top 100 prospects, using BAs lists. (BA is certainly a respected rating service.)

70% of top 100 prospects fail over their first six years in MLB, the rate being nearly 80% for pitching prospects.

Failure is measured as averaging less than 1.5 WAR over the first six years in MLB.

Top ten prospects have a much higher rate of success than 50 thru 100. Surprisingly, most of the 30% who do succeed become major producers, averaging over 3 WAR per season over their first six years, meaning that they often are immediate impact players.

On our active roster right now we have these former BA top 100 prospects:

TMac
Allen
Quantrill
Hedges
Bradley
Naylor
Amed
Zimmer
Gimenez


We presently have two BA top 100 prospects listed in our system...

Freeman
Jones

(That will likely change when the new lists are put out in February. It may have already changed.)

In any case, Rocchio, Valera, and Espino have to be considered top 100.

We presently have NINE former BA top 100 prospects on the active roster. How many of them made an immediate impact when they hit MLB?....the kind of impact that could be considered significant enough to make a difference to a contending team?

Zero

How many had that kind of impact in his second year?

Zero

How many in their third year?

Quantrill and Amed.

Of all the BA top 100s that we have had in the last decade, how many made an instant difference?

Lindor and Santana

How many made a significant difference over their first three years?

Lindor and Kipnis
 
Lets look at offensive production of several of the names mentioned in this thread in terms of wRC+ over the past three years. Some of these guys are not available. Two are on our team right now. But they all tend to illustrate what we are and what we should not be looking for.

JRam 131
Franmil 117

Renfroe 104
Calhoun 104
Canha 129

McCutchen 109

Laureano 117
Mullins 116
Reynolds 127
Marte 137
Happ 114
 
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There is sentiment not to trade Palacios for two years of Ian Happ.

Are you crazy?
 
There is sentiment not to trade Palacios for two years of Ian Happ.

Are you crazy?

Ian Happ is an upgrade over what we have has but at the same time, he hasn't produced above a 2 WAR.. His two full seasons, he really didnt produce at a high clip, so if you were high on a prospect, would you want to trade them for a Happ?
 
Ian Happ is an upgrade over what we have has but at the same time, he hasn't produced above a 2 WAR.. His two full seasons, he really didnt produce at a high clip, so if you were high on a prospect, would you want to trade them for a Happ?
Depends on what level you are talking about.

But the need on this team is offense, and Happ provides it. Over those three years, Happ has had just over 900 PAs, the equivalent of 1.5 full seasons. He has put up 4.5 fWAR, or 3 fWAR per full season.

If you believe that our new batting coach was a good hire, and last season he was successful in 'fixing' Happ in the second half....

Palacios is not an elite prospect. I'd trade him tomorrow for Happ. If you can't buy offense thru free agency, you can't get offense by only be willing to trade castoffs...the prospects you are happy to get rid of.

The only other alternative is to expect a true rookie to provide an instant 3 WAR, and we've had only one true rookie do that in the last fifty years, if not longer.

Happ isn't at the top of my wish list for several reasons, but he also won't cost as much as the ones I have rated higher.

I am totally bumfuddled that there seem to be only about three members of this forum that want to contend for the division next year. The rest seemingly are aiming for the title of best farm system and are willing to wait several more years to put a contending team on the field.
 
Depends on what level you are talking about.

But the need on this team is offense, and Happ provides it. Over those three years, Happ has had just over 900 PAs, the equivalent of 1.5 full seasons. He has put up 4.5 fWAR, or 3 fWAR per full season.

If you believe that our new batting coach was a good hire, and last season he was successful in 'fixing' Happ in the second half....

Palacios is not an elite prospect. I'd trade him tomorrow for Happ. If you can't buy offense thru free agency, you can't get offense by only be willing to trade castoffs...the prospects you are happy to get rid of.

The only other alternative is to expect a true rookie to provide an instant 3 WAR, and we've had only one true rookie do that in the last fifty years, if not longer.

Happ isn't at the top of my wish list for several reasons, but he also won't cost as much as the ones I have rated higher.

I am totally bumfuddled that there seem to be only about three members of this forum that want to contend for the division next year. The rest seemingly are aiming for the title of best farm system and are willing to wait several more years to put a contending team on the field.

I actually think everyone wants to compete but feel like the guys available aren't better than the players we currently have... why trade talent for guys who aren't an upgrade?

Baseball can be kind of fickle... we could have the best team and not make the playoffs and have a team 100% rookies and win it all... We don't know what guys do until they go out there and play.

Now I think we need to make a splash move and go get an OF upgrade, but maybe the cost of that upgrade is greater than the production so we don't do it. I am willing to make moves, but in no way am I willing to make a move just to make one...
 
Some of this is just plain wrong, but lets concentrate on the part about taking lower level prospects out of the equation of MLB success.

Several researches have been done on just Top 100 prospects, using BAs lists. (BA is certainly a respected rating service.)

70% of top 100 prospects fail over their first six years in MLB, the rate being nearly 80% for pitching prospects.

Failure is measured as averaging less than 1.5 WAR over the first six years in MLB.

Top ten prospects have a much higher rate of success than 50 thru 100. Surprisingly, most of the 30% who do succeed become major producers, averaging over 3 WAR per season over their first six years, meaning that they often are immediate impact players.

On our active roster right now we have these former BA top 100 prospects:

TMac
Allen
Quantrill
Hedges
Bradley
Naylor
Amed
Zimmer
Gimenez


We presently have two BA top 100 prospects listed in our system...

Freeman
Jones

(That will likely change when the new lists are put out in February. It may have already changed.)

In any case, Rocchio, Valera, and Espino have to be considered top 100.

We presently have NINE former BA top 100 prospects on the active roster. How many of them made an immediate impact when they hit MLB?....the kind of impact that could be considered significant enough to make a difference to a contending team?

Zero

How many had that kind of impact in his second year?

Zero

How many in their third year?

Quantrill and Amed.

Of all the BA top 100s that we have had in the last decade, how many made an instant difference?

Lindor and Santana

How many made a significant difference over their first three years?

Lindor and Kipnis
How does BA's top 100 list have anything to do with Cleveland's method of building a winning team?

Relax CATS, they're going to make a trade or 2. There's a whole cast of characters(players and prospects) that could be dealt. I wouldn't be expecting Reynolds or Mullins though. I mean you can, but you'll be setting yourself up for disappointment.

Edited to say that you might have to accept the idea that they won't quite be ready to fully compete in 22 unless all the stars align. This probably isn't an "all in" scenario for CA and MC. They'll be patient and prudent. If an opportunity presents itself then they make a move. If the cost is prohibitive then they'll probably put most of the emphasis on the prospects. I'm kind of in wait and see mode myself.
 
I am probably the biggest Palacios "fan" on this board, and would prefer to keep him then trade him for Happ. However, the FO and others may disagree. That is fine with me, and it would certainly be reasonable.

Palacios has never been "old" for his level with the exception of this years AFL and his 1st 5 games as a pro which were in the the Arizona rookie league directly after he signed. Then he was moved up.

He is not untouchable by any stretch, and would certainly be available in a deal.

 
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I am probably the biggest Palacios "fan" on this board, and would prefer to keep in than trade him for Happ. However, the FO and others may disagree. That is fine with me, and it would certainly be reasonable.

Palacios has never been "old" for his level with the exception of this years AFL and his 1st 5 games as a pro which were in the the Arizona rookie league directly after he signed. Then he was moved up.

He is not untouchable by any stretch, and would certainly be available in a deal.

@Criznit - it’s debatable which of us is the bigger Palacios fan but we are both at the front of his bandwagon..
 
@Criznit - it’s debatable which of us is the bigger Palacios fan but we are both at the front of his bandwagon..
Both of you take the back seat. I was all over Palacios pre-draft.

I would rather trade the comp A pick than Palacios, but he's exactly the kind of prospect C. Hawkins would ask back (and more) for Happ.
 

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