Early 22 GM Thread!

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sportscoach

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Okay, Rules of this thread!

1) You are in the GM seat, you have a 70 million dollar budget for the 22 season. If you need to go over, then you will need a mods approval @Wham with the Right Hand @The Human Q-Tip as the deciding vote. (I didn't tell them ahead of time so good luck! Lol)

2) Other posters than the original poster can chime in, but you can only chime in as advisors. What I mean by that is, no bashing or attacking the original poster at all. Start with I Believe or I don't believe (something on that order) and explain your reasoning. Ex: let's say you set a trade for Reynolds and they don't believe that is enough from the Indians side. They will have to say I dont believe that trade would go through because, give the reason why and give a counter trade offer that they believe could happen.

3) this is a place for your personal ideas and good discussions, if you don't like the other person's ideas, to bad so sad, keep it to yourself! Counter only when it's properly done... Advisors don't bash their bosses and expect to get away with it. Don't get yourself fired in here!
 

Gson

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First step in a GM's off season is an assessment of the current status of each player and the collective group of players within specific areas:

1. middle infield
2. corner infield
3. catching
4. outfield corners/center/all three spots
4a. corner outfield
5. starting pitching
5a. starting pitching/opener
6. bullpen late/close/winning/high leverage/handedness
7. bullpen blow out/long relief/handedness

Budgetary restrictions are always present... and should be.. As an example.. whether an incumbent should hold onto a spot or not will almost always cost more..and needs to be considered in the budgetary profile..

Agreed?
 

sportscoach

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First step in a GM's off season is an assessment of the current status of each player and the collective group of players within specific areas:

1. middle infield
2. corner infield
3. catching
4. outfield corners/center/all three spots
4a. corner outfield
5. starting pitching
5a. starting pitching/opener
6. bullpen late/close/winning/high leverage/handedness
7. bullpen blow out/long relief/handedness

Budgetary restrictions are always present... and should be.. As an example.. whether an incumbent should hold onto a spot or not will almost always cost more..and needs to be considered in the budgetary profile..

Agreed?

Definitely agree there! This could create some long posts, if people don't mind the typing and reading...
 

sportscoach

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I started the thread, so I will go first...

Wilson Ramos, Parker, Shaw, are all free agents, so they will be let go...

Next, Cam Hill, Nick Wittgren, Alex Young, Gianpaul Gonzalez, Ryan Lavarnway will be DFA'd (Lavarnway may get the DFA during the season). I want all back as minor league free agents, but I don't expect that from Wittgren...

This will put the roster down to 36...

Next moves to make (I'd make them once the season ends)...

Giants get: SP Plesac, OF Daniel Johnson, SS Arias

Indians get: C Joey Bart, OF Luis Matos, SS Aeverson Arteaga, Util Brett Auerbach...

I know people are like why!!! But Plesac likely was to be moved, so I went and got Bart...

Next move... Bryan Reynolds!

Indians get OF Bryan Reynolds, OF Lonnie White

Pirates get: C Joey Bart, 3B/OF Nolan Jones, INF Jose Tena, SP Battenfield and SP Adam Scott

Now I am gambling a little bit, but I felt getting Reynolds was a priority, but I couldnt see a 3 way trade that worked well, so I did it another way...

Puts down my 40 man to 32... I know some say it's not possible to get this done in Nov, but I think some of this trade would have been personally started during the season and we did it when rosters needed to be set.

Perez, I would take his 7 million/resign for a 2 year/4-5 per type of deal. I think with our young pitchers, we need to keep him...

Then it's onto first adds for the 40 man! iNF Freeman, OF Valera, INF Rocchio, C Lavastida, 2B/OF Palacios, SP Morris, SP Pilkington, SP Cantillo...

Now I have a choice to make... Who do I keep... I am not going to protect Benson or Noel. I would like to, but one hasn't been above A ball yet, the other is an athlete not a baseball player.

Next though I think I will DFA HRam for Kwan... We have an OF now of Reynolds, Straw, Naylor with Zimmer and Mercado on the bench. To me HRam makes no sense and id rather have a better defensive guy than an okay hitter with no defense. Id like to keep him within the organization, if he gets claimed, then I oh wellz!

I am at 40 now... The next question is what am I doing with Allen, Mejia, Hentges, Chang, Zimmer, Mercado and Amed... and Oscar Gonzalez... I think Gonzalez gets traded for Cash/international money to whomever wants him and they will add him to their 40 man. Sorry I don't see the room for him personally.

I don't think I'll get this move off before the Rule 5, but I have one more trade to make...

INF Aaron Bracho, SP Mejia and a PTBNL/cash/something for LHP Ben Bowden... (gamble for us, but I think he would do a whole lot better in Cleveland, number 11 ranked prospect via MLB.com for the Rockies in 20)

Next will be my signing of LRP Andrew Chafin... I am thinking I will DFA Nelson (or Perez) whomever I think can get through waivers... 2 years 3-4 million per range with bonus and a third year team option...

Also Reynolds, Bieber, JRam, Civale and Reyes will all be offered an extension...

My 40 man to start spring will be

Pitchers:
LHP Logan Allen
RHP Shane Bieber
LHP Ben Bowden
LHP Joey Cantillo
LHP Andrew Chafin
RHP Aaron Civale
RHP Emmanuel Clase
RHP Justin Garza
LHP Sam Hentges
RHP James Karinchak
RHP Triston McKenzie
RHP Eli Morgan
RHP Cody Morris
LHP Scott Moss
LHP Francisco Perez
LHP Konnor Pilkington
RHP Nick Sandlin
RHP Trevor Stephan
RHP Carlos Vargas

Position players

Catchers

Roberto Perez
Austin Hedges
Bryan Lavastida

Infielders

Bobby Bradley
Yu Chang
Ernie Clement
Tyler Freeman
Andres Gimenez
Owen Miller
Jose Ramirez
Brayan Rocchio
Amed Rosario

Outfielders

Bryan Reynolds
Steven Kwan
Oscar Mercado
Josh Naylor
Richard Palacios
Franmil Reyes
Myles Straw
George Valera
Bradley Zimmer

Top 30 prospects to start the season something like... (Full names are added via trades or not on MLB.coms top 30 list)

1) T. Freeman
2) G. Valera
3) D. Espino
4) OF Luis Matos (SF)
5) B. Naylor
6) B. Rocchio
7) A. Martinez
8) G. Williams
9) L. Allen
10) T. Burns
11) OF Lonnie White (Pit)
12) SS Aeverson Arteaga (SF)
13) B. Lavastida
14) R. Palacios
15) C. Tucker
16) D. Nikhazy
17) P. Halpin
18) T. Mace
19) E. Hankins
20) C. Morris
21) L. Torres
22) G. Rodriguez
23) J. Noel
24) M. Tolentino
25) C. Vargas
26) I. Greene
27) W. Brennan
28) X. Curry
29) Josh Wolf (Indians farmhand)
30) Util Brett Auerbach (SF)

So quick summary... We lost Jones, Arias, Tena, Bracho, Battenfield, Scott, Meija, Oscar Gonzalez in trades (Bart as well but he was acquired to trade and maybe Wittgren)

Got Reynolds, Bowden plus prospects Matos, White, Arteaga, Auerbach... Then signed Chafin...

Then of course we are trying to bring back any DFA'd guy to a minor league deal... Then I will try to get back Parker, Shaw etc on minor league deals. I'll offer something to Kipnis and veterans with MLB experience to make the roster...

Now I am not sure on the numbers for the extensions... my guess is something similar for Kluber for Both Bieber and Civale, so 5 years about 70ish with an option for a 6th season... So I am guessing it would add 5 million on 22 cap, then Chafin, let's do 4 million, JRam will be let's say 22, Amed will be 4.5 while Reynolds and Reyes will be 3 million a piece, Perez will be 5 million, Zimmer will be 1.3 million... Hedges will be 4 million, that like 52 million, then... It's about 11 million for the rest of the roster if no one from the minor league free agents makes it, so 63 million... Makes it under the 70 mark...


Any questions on my decisions?
 
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Gson

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Waaaaaaay too much to read/reflect/comment/question.. so.. in pieces..

the first trade:

Giants get: SP Plesac, OF Daniel Johnson, SS Arias
Indians get: C Joey Bart, OF Luis Matos, SS Aeverson Arteaga, Util Brett Auerbach...
I know people are like why!!! But Plesac likely was to be moved, so I went and got Bart...


Bart.. is a key player for the Guardians.. theee best choice there is as a backstop not named Adley.. Joey Bart is guy is a keeper.. Luis Matos is an equal or better version of George Valera.. also a keeper.. IDK about Brett Auerbach.. I'd replace him with Matt Mikulski, LHP who would profile best as a LHRP in high leverage situations.. Brett is just another middle infielder, imho.. Arteaga is a damn good player..

I'd even add Bracho & Nikhazy to the offer to make this happen.. Both Mikulski and Matos would not require 40 man roster protection..giving the Indians four 40 man roster spots.. For the Giants, only Nikhazy would not require rostering.. If this deal could be made.. I'd keep all three of them and call it an off season. Using the BTV site.. this deal is about a 10 % overpay by the Guards..

Thoughts?
 
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DCTribefan

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I started the thread, so I will go first...

Wilson Ramos, Parker, Shaw, are all free agents, so they will be let go...

Next, Cam Hill, Nick Wittgren, Alex Young, Gianpaul Gonzalez, Ryan Lavarnway will be DFA'd (Lavarnway may get the DFA during the season). I want all back as minor league free agents, but I don't expect that from Wittgren...

This will put the roster down to 36...

Next moves to make (I'd make them once the season ends)...

Giants get: SP Plesac, OF Daniel Johnson, SS Arias

Indians get: C Joey Bart, OF Luis Matos, SS Aeverson Arteaga, Util Brett Auerbach...

I know people are like why!!! But Plesac likely was to be moved, so I went and got Bart...

Next move... Bryan Reynolds!

Indians get OF Bryan Reynolds, OF Lonnie White

Pirates get: C Joey Bart, 3B/OF Nolan Jones, INF Jose Tena, SP Battenfield and SP Adam Scott

Now I am gambling a little bit, but I felt getting Reynolds was a priority, but I couldnt see a 3 way trade that worked well, so I did it another way...

Puts down my 40 man to 32... I know some say it's not possible to get this done in Nov, but I think some of this trade would have been personally started during the season and we did it when rosters needed to be set.

Perez, I would take his 7 million/resign for a 2 year/4-5 per type of deal. I think with our young pitchers, we need to keep him...

Then it's onto first adds for the 40 man! iNF Freeman, OF Valera, INF Rocchio, C Lavastida, 2B/OF Palacios, SP Morris, SP Pilkington, SP Cantillo...

Now I have a choice to make... Who do I keep... I am not going to protect Benson or Noel. I would like to, but one hasn't been above A ball yet, the other is an athlete not a baseball player.

Next though I think I will DFA HRam for Kwan... We have an OF now of Reynolds, Straw, Naylor with Zimmer and Mercado on the bench. To me HRam makes no sense and id rather have a better defensive guy than an okay hitter with no defense. Id like to keep him within the organization, if he gets claimed, then I oh wellz!

I am at 40 now... The next question is what am I doing with Allen, Mejia, Hentges, Chang, Zimmer, Mercado and Amed... and Oscar Gonzalez... I think Gonzalez gets traded for Cash/international money to whomever wants him and they will add him to their 40 man. Sorry I don't see the room for him personally.

I don't think I'll get this move off before the Rule 5, but I have one more trade to make...

INF Aaron Bracho, SP Mejia and a PTBNL/cash/something for LHP Ben Bowden... (gamble for us, but I think he would do a whole lot better in Cleveland, number 11 ranked prospect via MLB.com for the Rockies in 20)

Next will be my signing of LRP Andrew Chafin... I am thinking I will DFA Nelson (or Perez) whomever I think can get through waivers... 2 years 3-4 million per range with bonus and a third year team option...

Also Reynolds, Bieber, JRam, Civale and Reyes will all be offered an extension...

My 40 man to start spring will be

Pitchers:
LHP Logan Allen
RHP Shane Bieber
LHP Ben Bowden
LHP Joey Cantillo
LHP Andrew Chafin
RHP Aaron Civale
RHP Emmanuel Clase
RHP Justin Garza
LHP Sam Hentges
RHP James Karinchak
RHP Triston McKenzie
RHP Eli Morgan
RHP Cody Morris
LHP Scott Moss
LHP Francisco Perez
LHP Konnor Pilkington
RHP Nick Sandlin
RHP Trevor Stephan
RHP Carlos Vargas

Position players

Catchers

Roberto Perez
Austin Hedges
Bryan Lavastida

Infielders

Bobby Bradley
Yu Chang
Ernie Clement
Tyler Freeman
Andres Gimenez
Owen Miller
Jose Ramirez
Brayan Rocchio
Amed Rosario

Outfielders

Bryan Reynolds
Steven Kwan
Oscar Mercado
Josh Naylor
Richard Palacios
Franmil Reyes
Myles Straw
George Valera
Bradley Zimmer

Top 30 prospects to start the season something like... (Full names are added via trades or not on MLB.coms top 30 list)

1) T. Freeman
2) G. Valera
3) D. Espino
4) OF Luis Matos (SF)
5) B. Naylor
6) B. Rocchio
7) A. Martinez
8) G. Williams
9) L. Allen
10) T. Burns
11) OF Lonnie White (Pit)
12) SS Aeverson Arteaga (SF)
13) B. Lavastida
14) R. Palacios
15) C. Tucker
16) D. Nikhazy
17) P. Halpin
18) T. Mace
19) E. Hankins
20) C. Morris
21) L. Torres
22) G. Rodriguez
23) J. Noel
24) M. Tolentino
25) C. Vargas
26) I. Greene
27) W. Brennan
28) X. Curry
29) Josh Wolf (Indians farmhand)
30) Util Brett Auerbach (SF)

So quick summary... We lost Jones, Arias, Tena, Bracho, Battenfield, Scott, Meija, Oscar Gonzalez in trades (Bart as well but he was acquired to trade and maybe Wittgren)

Got Reynolds, Bowden plus prospects Matos, White, Arteaga, Auerbach... Then signed Chafin...

Then of course we are trying to bring back any DFA'd guy to a minor league deal... Then I will try to get back Parker, Shaw etc on minor league deals. I'll offer something to Kipnis and veterans with MLB experience to make the roster...

Now I am not sure on the numbers for the extensions... my guess is something similar for Kluber for Both Bieber and Civale, so 5 years about 70ish with an option for a 6th season... So I am guessing it would add 5 million on 22 cap, then Chafin, let's do 4 million, JRam will be let's say 22, Amed will be 4.5 while Reynolds and Reyes will be 3 million a piece, Perez will be 5 million, Zimmer will be 1.3 million... Hedges will be 4 million, that like 52 million, then... It's about 11 million for the rest of the roster if no one from the minor league free agents makes it, so 63 million... Makes it under the 70 mark...


Any questions on my decisions?
Yes, why not put this in the trade speculation thread?
 

sportscoach

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Waaaaaaay too much to read/reflect/comment/question.. so.. in pieces..

the first trade:

Giants get: SP Plesac, OF Daniel Johnson, SS Arias
Indians get: C Joey Bart, OF Luis Matos, SS Aeverson Arteaga, Util Brett Auerbach...
I know people are like why!!! But Plesac likely was to be moved, so I went and got Bart...


Bart.. is a key player for the Guardians.. theee best choice there is as a backstop not named Adley.. Joey Bart is guy is a keeper.. Luis Matos is an equal or better version of George Valera.. also a keeper.. IDK about Brett Auerbach.. I'd replace him with Matt Mikulski, LHP who would profile best as a LHRP in high leverage situations.. just another middle infielder, imho..

I'd even add Bracho & Nikhazy to the offer to make this happen.. Both Mikulski and Matos would not require 40 man roster protection..giving the Indians four 40 man roster spots.. For the Giants, only Nikhazy would not require rostering.. If this deal could be made.. I'd keep all three of them and call it an off season. Using the BTV site.. this deal is about a 10 % overpay by the Guards..

Thoughts?

Well I am okay with a slight overpay there, Bart was my target so I can go get Reynolds. Even if we didn't get Reynolds, I felt Bart was someone who would be able to fit in long term, allowing me to move Naylor/Lavastida in another trade. I felt if we could get Bart, plus Matos for Plesac I think we win at the end of the day. Since I added Arias, I wanted Artega back since he looks like a solid 18 year old prospect...

I grabbed Auerbach mostly because he is an utility guy with a good contact bat. He has played just about everywhere on the diamond including catcher. He is a depth piece, but he is 23 and doesn't need protected until 24... Giants need pitching so I wasn't trying to take any arms from them. Your way works for the most part other than I moved Bracho in the Bowden deal.

Edit: his numbers between A and High A this season are:

.294/.388/.532 19 2Bs, 14 HRs, 37 BBs, 79 SOs, 28 SBs,

Then on defense: 186 innings at C, 297 Innings at 2B, 51 innings at 3B, 38 innings in CF, 27 in LF... I like having depth pieces that have solid hit numbers that can play a bunch of positions. We also are light on catchers in the organization and he can play that ..
 
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CATS44

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First step first.

We have to have a 40 man for the R5. I dont see why a team would make a major trade with us (Reynolds, Bart, etc) before then, because lots of teams are in the same situation as us.

20 position players.

Hedges
Franmil
Bradley
Naylor
Jose
Amed
Gimenez
Straw
Zimmer
Arias
Jones
Miller
Mercado

Freeman
Rocchio
Valera
Lavastida
Palacios
Tena
Noel

19 pitchers.

Biebs
Civale
Plesac
Quantrill
TMac
Morgan
Allen

Karinchak
Clase
Sandlin
Wittgren
Hentges
Mejia

Stephan
Moss
Vargas

Morris
Pilkington
Cantillo

The last spot goes to one of Chang, Scott, Kwan, Gonzalez.

Kwan is LH. Gonzalez is one tool. Scott is overload. Chang is one of dozens of DFAs who will be floating around after all the cuts are made.

I will pick Scott.

This leaves us without a second catcher and a legit OF bat, but it buys time to make a 3/4 for one trade.

I also think that there will be so many DFAs that a lot of fringe players will end up being outrighted to their same orgs.

This leaves us with a base payroll of about $38 mil...including all raises due to arby.

**********

Second step...

One major 3/4 for one trade for a corner bat to open at least two roster spots...hopefully three.

Targets would be...but not limited to...bats like Reynolds, Kyle Lewis, Haniger, Dominic Smith, Mullins, Teoscar Hernandez, and Laureano.

Big names, but we have what everybody wants...young front line pitching.

That will raise the payroll between $4-7 mil...lets go with $6 mil to put us at $44 mil.

*****

Third step.

Resign Berto for $5 mil. To this org, he is worth it.

$49 mil.

*************

Step Four.

Now, we are in luxury territory. We have a legitimate contender, but with money to spend to make it even better.

Offer Canha, or a similar 1B/OF bat, $8-10 mil.

We are at about $58 mil.

********

Step Five

We have about $10 mil left to use to up 2022 salaries in extensions for Jose, Biebs, etc....and $2 mil for vet middle relievers on make good contracts.

And we have retained all of our top level prospects to develop or use in the above mentioned trade....maintained most of our pitching depth...and have a lineup that could look like...

C) Hentges/Berto
DH) Franmil
1B) Bobby, with Canha as a RH option, or Naylor.
2B) Gimenez/whoever out of Arias/Miller/ Rocchio/Freeman is left.
SS) Amed
3B) Jose
CF) Straw
COF) Canha, Major bat
4th OF) Zimmer, Mercado, Naylor
Util inf) Whoever is left out of the 2Bs

The pen looks like...

Clase
Sandlin
Karinchak
Hentges
Mejia
Wittgren
Two old vets to choose from.
A bunch of young SPs who could be moved to relief.

$70 mil can buy a lot, if we are willing to use prospects to upgrade....and we have prospects.
 

DCTribefan

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First step first.

We have to have a 40 man for the R5. I dont see why a team would make a major trade with us (Reynolds, Bart, etc) before then, because lots of teams are in the same situation as us.

20 position players.

Hedges
Franmil
Bradley
Naylor
Jose
Amed
Gimenez
Straw
Zimmer
Arias
Jones
Miller
Mercado

Freeman
Rocchio
Valera
Lavastida
Palacios
Tena
Noel

19 pitchers.

Biebs
Civale
Plesac
Quantrill
TMac
Morgan
Allen

Karinchak
Clase
Sandlin
Wittgren
Hentges
Mejia

Stephan
Moss
Vargas

Morris
Pilkington
Cantillo

The last spot goes to one of Chang, Scott, Kwan, Gonzalez.

Kwan is LH. Gonzalez is one tool. Scott is overload. Chang is one of dozens of DFAs who will be floating around after all the cuts are made.

I will pick Scott.

This leaves us without a second catcher and a legit OF bat, but it buys time to make a 3/4 for one trade.

I also think that there will be so many DFAs that a lot of fringe players will end up being outrighted to their same orgs.

This leaves us with a base payroll of about $38 mil...including all raises due to arby.

**********

Second step...

One major 3/4 for one trade for a corner bat to open at least two roster spots...hopefully three.

Targets would be...but not limited to...bats like Reynolds, Kyle Lewis, Haniger, Dominic Smith, Mullins, Teoscar Hernandez, and Laureano.

Big names, but we have what everybody wants...young front line pitching.

That will raise the payroll between $4-7 mil...lets go with $6 mil to put us at $44 mil.

*****

Third step.

Resign Berto for $5 mil. To this org, he is worth it.

$49 mil.

*************

Step Four.

Now, we are in luxury territory. We have a legitimate contender, but with money to spend to make it even better.

Offer Canha, or a similar 1B/OF bat, $8-10 mil.

We are at about $58 mil.

********

Step Five

We have about $10 mil left to use to up 2022 salaries in extensions for Jose, Biebs, etc....and $2 mil for vet middle relievers on make good contracts.

And we have retained all of our top level prospects to develop or use in the above mentioned trade....maintained most of our pitching depth...and have a lineup that could look like...

C) Hentges/Berto
DH) Franmil
1B) Bobby, with Canha as a RH option, or Naylor.
2B) Gimenez/whoever out of Arias/Miller/ Rocchio/Freeman is left.
SS) Amed
3B) Jose
CF) Straw
COF) Canha, Major bat
4th OF) Zimmer, Mercado, Naylor
Util inf) Whoever is left out of the 2Bs

The pen looks like...

Clase
Sandlin
Karinchak
Hentges
Mejia
Wittgren
Two old vets to choose from.
A bunch of young SPs who could be moved to relief.

$70 mil can buy a lot, if we are willing to use prospects to upgrade....and we have prospects.
Still think a $70 million payroll is overly optimistic.
 

sportscoach

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Still think a $70 million payroll is overly optimistic.

*Sighs* just either play along with the thread or not post...

Plus the Indians FO did say they were increasing payroll, they were originally projected about 50ish million this season, so that is not an unreasonable especially since they need to make a splash with the new name...
 

sportscoach

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First step first.

We have to have a 40 man for the R5. I dont see why a team would make a major trade with us (Reynolds, Bart, etc) before then, because lots of teams are in the same situation as us.

20 position players.

Hedges
Franmil
Bradley
Naylor
Jose
Amed
Gimenez
Straw
Zimmer
Arias
Jones
Miller
Mercado

Freeman
Rocchio
Valera
Lavastida
Palacios
Tena
Noel

19 pitchers.

Biebs
Civale
Plesac
Quantrill
TMac
Morgan
Allen

Karinchak
Clase
Sandlin
Wittgren
Hentges
Mejia

Stephan
Moss
Vargas

Morris
Pilkington
Cantillo

The last spot goes to one of Chang, Scott, Kwan, Gonzalez.

Kwan is LH. Gonzalez is one tool. Scott is overload. Chang is one of dozens of DFAs who will be floating around after all the cuts are made.

I will pick Scott.

This leaves us without a second catcher and a legit OF bat, but it buys time to make a 3/4 for one trade.

I also think that there will be so many DFAs that a lot of fringe players will end up being outrighted to their same orgs.

This leaves us with a base payroll of about $38 mil...including all raises due to arby.

**********

Second step...

One major 3/4 for one trade for a corner bat to open at least two roster spots...hopefully three.

Targets would be...but not limited to...bats like Reynolds, Kyle Lewis, Haniger, Dominic Smith, Mullins, Teoscar Hernandez, and Laureano.

Big names, but we have what everybody wants...young front line pitching.

That will raise the payroll between $4-7 mil...lets go with $6 mil to put us at $44 mil.

*****

Third step.

Resign Berto for $5 mil. To this org, he is worth it.

$49 mil.

*************

Step Four.

Now, we are in luxury territory. We have a legitimate contender, but with money to spend to make it even better.

Offer Canha, or a similar 1B/OF bat, $8-10 mil.

We are at about $58 mil.

********

Step Five

We have about $10 mil left to use to up 2022 salaries in extensions for Jose, Biebs, etc....and $2 mil for vet middle relievers on make good contracts.

And we have retained all of our top level prospects to develop or use in the above mentioned trade....maintained most of our pitching depth...and have a lineup that could look like...

C) Hentges/Berto
DH) Franmil
1B) Bobby, with Canha as a RH option, or Naylor.
2B) Gimenez/whoever out of Arias/Miller/ Rocchio/Freeman is left.
SS) Amed
3B) Jose
CF) Straw
COF) Canha, Major bat
4th OF) Zimmer, Mercado, Naylor
Util inf) Whoever is left out of the 2Bs

The pen looks like...

Clase
Sandlin
Karinchak
Hentges
Mejia
Wittgren
Two old vets to choose from.
A bunch of young SPs who could be moved to relief.

$70 mil can buy a lot, if we are willing to use prospects to upgrade....and we have prospects.

Personally, I want to do the trades before the rule 5 mostly because a lot of teams have a roster crunch and they want to be able to keep everyone. Don't be surprised if teams make more deals than normal in Nov.

Also my hunch is we need to keep Chang... I think he will be a monster in 22, hence why I kept him.

Honestly I cannot disagree with your logic and it looks more realistic than mine, but personally I am more willing to make some riskier moves than some...
 

CATS44

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Personally, I want to do the trades before the rule 5 mostly because a lot of teams have a roster crunch and they want to be able to keep everyone. Don't be surprised if teams make more deals than normal in Nov.

Also my hunch is we need to keep Chang... I think he will be a monster in 22, hence why I kept him.

Honestly I cannot disagree with your logic and it looks more realistic than mine, but personally I am more willing to make some riskier moves than some...
I understand what you are saying, and I'd rather make a big trade before the 40 man has to be set.

But if we are going to trade for a major bat, its gonna include multiple prospects that need to be protected....its probably gonna be with a team that is not gonna contend next year and already has a fistful of prospects.

Trading with Pittsburgh sounds good, but Pittsburgh has almost as big of a problem as we do...more prospects than roster spots. The Pirates right now probably can't take on multiple prospects in return for Reynolds....unless those prospects are three or four years away. I dont think Reynolds can be had for a bunch of lower level prospects.

I dont see many trades before the R5, outside of some minor reshuffling of rosters. Few GMs are willing to fly blind, and will want to see how rosters shake out before pulling the trigger.

Why make a trade for a young MIF when you might be able to pick up one of equal value for free in the Rule Five?

*********

This years R5 is gonna be fascinating, because...more than usual...nobody knows what anybody is gonna do.

Its possible that nearly everybody hordes their prospects, which means that there are gonna be a ton of DFAs available by trade or waiver...but only if you have a spot on the 40 man.

The question is how many teams will not fill up their 40 mans. Usually, you can depend on Pittsburgh and Baltimore to circle like vultures, but maybe not this year.

Maybe everybody fills up their 40 man's. Maybe several teams figure that there is gonna be so much talent that they will bite the bullet in 2022, save multiple roster spots, and take three or four Rule Fives.

And because of the plethora of R5 eligible prospects this year, I think that there is a decent chance that the players we DFA will clear waivers...because there may not be roster openings.
 

CDAV45

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I understand what you are saying, and I'd rather make a big trade before the 40 man has to be set.

But if we are going to trade for a major bat, its gonna include multiple prospects that need to be protected....its probably gonna be with a team that is not gonna contend next year and already has a fistful of prospects.

Trading with Pittsburgh sounds good, but Pittsburgh has almost as big of a problem as we do...more prospects than roster spots. The Pirates right now probably can't take on multiple prospects in return for Reynolds....unless those prospects are three or four years away. I dont think Reynolds can be had for a bunch of lower level prospects.

I dont see many trades before the R5, outside of some minor reshuffling of rosters. Few GMs are willing to fly blind, and will want to see how rosters shake out before pulling the trigger.

Why make a trade for a young MIF when you might be able to pick up one of equal value for free in the Rule Five?

*********

This years R5 is gonna be fascinating, because...more than usual...nobody knows what anybody is gonna do.

Its possible that nearly everybody hordes their prospects, which means that there are gonna be a ton of DFAs available by trade or waiver...but only if you have a spot on the 40 man.

The question is how many teams will not fill up their 40 mans. Usually, you can depend on Pittsburgh and Baltimore to circle like vultures, but maybe not this year.

Maybe everybody fills up their 40 man's. Maybe several teams figure that there is gonna be so much talent that they will bite the bullet in 2022, save multiple roster spots, and take three or four Rule Fives.

And because of the plethora of R5 eligible prospects this year, I think that there is a decent chance that the players we DFA will clear waivers...because there may not be roster openings.
I feel just about exactly the same CATS which is why I've stated before that it's just as likely Cleveland claims a potential bat as it is to lose a prospect or 2 via the R5. For that reason I don't think much will happen until the R5 has occurred either. Although it makes sense for teams to trade possible R5 candidates prior to the draft. Clearly we're in uncharted waters here, and the majority of organizations will have to make some difficult decisions.

So which R5 eligible corner OFers could be possible claims? I'd be interested in seeing that list. Hell, I could be way off base and there not be a single one worth f'ing with. Whatever happens, I'm curious to see how it shakes out.

I'm just as interested in seeing what lies ahead for Zimmer, Mercado, Johnson, and Chang. Is it possible that exactly nothing happens and they start the 22 season with pretty much the same roster? Clearly the pitching staff is good to go outside of a quality LHRP......maybe. Like you've stated, this pitching staff will be able to keep us in a lot of games so does that buy the fringe guys some more time? The more I consider the circumstances the more unsure I get about what they intend to do. Good thing I trust this FO to make sound, logical decisions.
 

Gson

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@sportscoach
Onto trade # 2:

Next move... Bryan Reynolds!
Indians get OF Bryan Reynolds, OF Lonnie White
Pirates get: C Joey Bart, 3B/OF Nolan Jones, INF Jose Tena, SP Battenfield and SP Adam Scott


This assumes the Joey Bart trade happens...

Bryan Reynolds...is having a great 2021.. not so much in the weirdness that was 2020.. but, very good/better than even 2021 in 2019.. He is clearly a piece to the puzzle.. The switch hitting outfielder will be entering into his Arb I season in 2022 with three more to follow (i.e. 4 years of control after the completion of the 2021 season).. He'll be on the same path as Lindor w/r to payroll.. Over the next four years, assuming there is no work stoppage following the 2021 season's fall classic, he should achieve an AAV of approximately $ 10 MM - $ 12 MM.. IOW.. a pretty good cost/price.. At the end of that time and before the 2026 season, he'll be turning 30.. So, his biography says.. he's our kind of guy.. At the cost of Joey Bart, Nolan Jones, two pitchers and one of second or third tier Indians middle infield prospects.. that's a steep price but, perhaps worth while to the Indians..

What I don't understand is why would the Pirates make this deal?.. The Pirates already have one of theee best backstop prospects in their system, a hit first.. throw first.. baseball IQ first.. leader who has really quick feet, soft hands and an aptitude for being a backstop.. The only other spot that might fit for Henry Davis is 3B.. and that spot is more than ably covered by Ke'Bryan Hayes.. In a long winded way.. I don't see why the pirates would want Joey Bart as the centerpiece for a deal involving their best ML player right now.. What the Pirates lack is bullpen pitching, middle inning pitchers and starting pitching.. Instead of Bart.. how about one of Tyler Freeman or Angel Martinez and Arteaga along with the two pitchers?..

Btw.. w/r to Lonnie White.. IDK why you picked him.. he's a LOT like Wil Benson..perhaps a little better at the same time in their career paths.. other than he's the Pirates best OF prospect?.. Pick someone else?..

Sorry for shitting all over this deal.. but.. it just doesn't make a lot of sense for the Indians to send away a guy who can fill one of the three biggest holes in the club...

Thoughts?..
 
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