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Evan Mobley: 2023 All Defensive 1st Team

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Is Evan Mobley the Greatest Player of All Time?

  • Yes

    Votes: 48 39.0%
  • Yes

    Votes: 21 17.1%
  • Yes

    Votes: 7 5.7%
  • YAAASSS!!!

    Votes: 36 29.3%
  • Jim Chones

    Votes: 25 20.3%

  • Total voters
    123
Their skillset overlaps. They don't complement each other. They are so good individually that they make it work. Ofcourse a good guard play will boost both of them.

It overlaps in that they're both great finishers around the basket, and that's about it.

ETA: The defensive synergy is dominant, and is already worth what limitations they bring sharing the court offensively. I don't think there's a world where that will ever change. The Cavs are a dominant defense when anchored by these two, and they're already effective on offense together in year 1.
 
It overlaps in that they're both great finishers around the basket, and that's about it.

ETA: The defensive synergy is dominant, and is already worth what limitations they bring sharing the court offensively. I don't think there's a world where that will ever change. The Cavs are a dominant defense when anchored by these two, and they're already effective on offense together in year 1.

It currently overlaps as they both operate in similar spots. IT is probably bound to change in the future.

Not once in my post did I say the Cavs should trade Allen. He has superstar impact right now on a good contract with still fairly good upside.
 
Their skillset overlaps. They don't complement each other. They are so good individually that they make it work. Ofcourse a good guard play will boost both of them.
you can compliment with overlapping skill sets.

I used to hate seeing a guitarist and a piano player in the same jazz ensemble because it is easy to get in the way harmonically, but guys who can play know how to work around that and excel at pushing each other.

Allen and Mobley can't both park it in the post at the same time but they are good enough to make space for each other while helping the team win. And they compliment each other perfectly on defense.

It currently overlaps as they both operate in similar spots. IT is probably bound to change in the future.
I think it changes by way of Evan's range. That 15-20' jumper is looking real good and opens up passing angles with Allen that will increase with more range and more consistency.

Great time to be a Cavaliers fan!
 
you can compliment with overlapping skill sets.

I used to hate seeing a guitarist and a piano player in the same jazz ensemble because it is easy to get in the way harmonically, but guys who can play know how to work around that and excel at pushing each other.

Allen and Mobley can't both park it in the post at the same time but they are good enough to make space for each other while helping the team win. And they compliment each other perfectly on defense.


I think it changes by way of Evan's range. That 15-20' jumper is looking real good and opens up passing angles with Allen that will increase with more range and more consistency.

Great time to be a Cavaliers fan!


Defensively they certainly complement each other.

Allen should be on the Cavs long term plans, ofcourse, but am I the only one who is curious to see Evan Mobley actually be developed on the wings if Allen is going to be the long term Center? Like. Mobley's long term best position would probably be at C once he bulks up? and offensively, i'm not sure the PF spot puts him at the best position to be a mismatch nightmare in that scenario. So if he isn't bound to be the C, what if you develop him as a wing? fuck it.. make him the point guard!

I had a few WTF moments last night watching Mobley... that's for sure.
 
Mobley is dunking on the faces of elite paint defenders after backing them down (finishing with his off-hand), he's shooting 3's at close to league average clip, his fadeaway game is looking good, he's shown a reliable midrange shooting game. If he can improve his handle, he's a mismatch for pretty much anyone from the 3 point line and in. If you're a big, he's going by you. If you're a little, he's shooting over you. If you're in the paint with him, you're fucked.

I'm not sure the typical position stereotypes are going to apply here.
 
Mobley is dunking on the faces of elite paint defenders after backing them down (finishing with his off-hand), he's shooting 3's at close to league average clip, his fadeaway game is looking good, he's shown a reliable midrange shooting game. If he can improve his handle, he's a mismatch for pretty much anyone from the 3 point line and in. If you're a big, he's going by you. If you're a little, he's shooting over you. If you're in the paint with him, you're fucked.

I'm not sure the typical position stereotypes are going to apply here.
Not to mention that we are talking about a 20 y/o in his 29th NBA game. I have a feeling (just a feeling) he’ll be fine in any lineup LOL! We are so fucking blessed!
 
What Evan is doing right now on offense is awe inspiring. The tough shots he is able to take and make with relative ease it seems is really crazy.

However, and that's a big one for me, this is not how you want Evan to operate offensively and the Cavs offensively as a whole. Right now, these post ups, even if they are sustainable, are not creating any offensive flow and gravity for anyone else. And it's not just Mobley, there are simply way too many post ups right now by the Cavs without anyone else moving off the ball. It's ugly basketball and it happens way too much.

Sure, you can say that once teams adjust to Mobley's uber efficient post up play, he will draw more double teams and that will open up the game for everyone else. Could be. But most double teams happen closer to the basket rather than where he is currently operating, and for him to get closer to the basket he is going to need to become stronger at his core. Despite all of that, the dude isn't soft at all. He goes right at whoever is guarding him. Kudos to the dude, he has incredible passion.

In addition to that, I can't imagine posting up like that with his current body, with how much energy he has to exert on each possession not taxing to his body at his current stage of his development. That will have an effect on his overall defense and perhaps on other areas.

What I do want Evan to do, and the team to do is to operate in the short roll waaaay more and as a ball handler. It doesn't quite compute for me how the Cavs can't get Evan easier looks than what they are able to achieve right now. I'm not talking about lobs.. i'm talking about even a simple pick and pop from the top of the key... it has to be easier than those turnaround fadeaways with a man all over him.

It pains me to say it, but offensively Allen and Mobley currently do not fit well. Mobley offensively will be at his best playing in a spaced out floor and the same applies to Allen. Both of them are great in the post and both of them are deemed rather unuseful when the other is going 1 on 1 in the post. In are occasions you can see them playing a pretty neat big to big game, but it happens rather seldomly.

Also, I can not stress this one enough, Mobley is a terrible, terrible screen setter right now and Allen's okay at best screen setting doesn't offset that all. This kinda limits what the team is able to do offensively on the ball, and especially off the ball. Particularly now without Garland, the true engine of the team out of action.

So, Mobley and Allen fit really well defensively, no question about that. But for them to actually be great together offensively, they are going to need to actually complement each other...there are numerous ways for them to be able to do that on paper:

- Evan will need to develop a good 3pt shot and make himself available when Allen is operating in the post. Quite a realistic expectation imho.

- Mobley will need to develop as a ball handler and operate at the top of the break. Mobley's ball handling and quickness with the ball is not close to where you need it to be as a ball handler that can create separation and get by his man in iso. However, using him as a ball handler when Allen is the one setting the pick as a roll man is really interesting. I'm confident in Mobley's ability to find Allen on the roll and i'm really confident in Allen as a finisher. However, teams will probably switch the PnR, making this play probably unsuccessful. Could try slipping the screen instead. It all comes down to how far Mobley can improve his quickness with the ball as a ball handler, because I trust his decision making and execution a lot.

This is why the Cavs need another creator on the wing that is able to punish mismatches. Teams will switch against the Cavs a lot, and the Cavs will need to find ways to counter and make this tactic a lost cause. Actually having a wing with a good 3pt shot and creation abilities be the one setting the pick, or heck even Garland is something I want to explore. I think if Garland is brave enough, he can be a good candidate for that.

-Allen will need to develop a solid mid range jumper and a corner 3. It's not a must, but it's a nice option to have depending on the matchups. Cavs will always have a favorable matchup against any team, so having more options to attack through either one is always a plus.

Now what I really want Mobley to do is operate in the short roll. He is at his best as a decision maker when he has the numbers advantage and when getting the ball in momentum. Allen's man will always be an obstacle in his way in the short roll unless Allen develops his range outside the paint and/or they develop such a good big to big passing in short spaces that would make this irrelevant.

Anyhow, What Mobley is doing right now offensively is absolutely mind boggling. I have not seen a big make these type of moves on a consistent basis with such pure touch on his fadeaways since...forever? I just don't think it's the way the Cavs should operate on offense unless it's the end of a shot clock and they have run out of time or the play was broken, or on some rare occasions. But that shouldn't be most of Evan's offense. Nope. Luckily for us, Evan seems to be a jack of all trades and master of all. The coaching staff just need to put him in the best position to succeed not only for Evan as an individual but for the team as a whole.
Great post.

As it happens, I agree on almost everything. One interesting thing you didn't discuss is the fact that Garland's absence has quickly turned Mobley into the #1 frontcourt offensive option. Earlier in the season it used to be Allen, simply because the chemistry he shared with Darius was tremendous.

JA's stats are still fine, but make no mistake... he's struggling a bit. It's clear that Pangos and Goodwin are not finding him the way Garland did, but more importantly, Mobley's growing usage and aggression is pushing Allen into no-man's land on many possessions. Early on it was Mobley whose role it was to "stay out of the way" and get his points off rebounds and occasional lobs... now it's almost the other way around.

Allen is a smart guy and he does understand spacing, but there's only so much you can do when you simply can't shoot at all. This is a slight problem now, and it will be a bigger one in the near future.

It will be interesting to see how JBB manages the situation when Garland returns. Does he go right back to the lethal two-man-game we saw early on, or does he let Mobley expand his on-ball role (while decreasing Garland's)?

I understand people will want to remain optimistic and say "this just means we have more weapons", but the fact remains that this is a team that needs to find a way to win as a team. Mobley and Allen are not meshing very well offensively, and IMO that problem will continue to grow as Mobley becomes even more assertive.
 
I think Allen in the low post and Mobley operating out of the high post has some potential to be some amazing basketball. We need Garland back to spread the floor and someone who can hit the corner 3 at 35% plus clip.
 
I think Allen in the low post and Mobley operating out of the high post has some potential to be some amazing basketball. We need Garland back to spread the floor and someone who can hit the corner 3 at 35% plus clip.
That's still not enough. Generally speaking, Allen's defender can't be hanging around the rim when Mobley (hopefully) goes to work at the high post.

IMO this means that unless Allen learns to shoot the corner 3, he's bound to end up as a back up 5.
 
That's still not enough. Generally speaking, Allen's defender can't be hanging around the rim when Mobley (hopefully) goes to work at the high post.

IMO this means that unless Allen learns to shoot the corner 3, he's bound to end up as a back up 5.


This wasn't an issue pre 2005ish

Everyone likes the 3pt shot, but you can dominate with a traditional style PF and true center still on both sides of the ball. Evan is even more gifted than your traditional because he can stretch the floor, or he can distribute out of the high post, to cutters coming off of cross screens. It has been working great until we got hit with injuries and covid protocol's.
 

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I guess the real question is who having caught it yet, I know Ja Morant had it not sure if Banes or either of there big man has caught it….This shit is your to hour if you having caught it yet….Pacers lost 2 players just before the game yesterday
 
That's still not enough. Generally speaking, Allen's defender can't be hanging around the rim when Mobley (hopefully) goes to work at the high post.

IMO this means that unless Allen learns to shoot the corner 3, he's bound to end up as a back up 5.
This only applies to bigs in a purely half-court offense that cannot handle the ball, are unathletic, short, and are surrounded by zero spacers.
 
This wasn't an issue pre 2005ish

Everyone likes the 3pt shot, but you can dominate with a traditional style PF and true center still on both sides of the ball. Evan is even more gifted than your traditional because he can stretch the floor, or he can distribute out of the high post, to cutters coming off of cross screens. It has been working great until we got hit with injuries and covid protocol's.
I wouldn't say Mobley can stretch the floor at this point. He may well get there, but right now he's shooting 31% from the perimeter on very low volume. Teams want him to take 3pt shots.

He thrives in the paint, as does Allen.
 
What will make him really special is that I believe he keeps an internal "I need to get better at ...." list and will do what he needs to do to fix his deficiencies. It is what I always loved about Olajuwon. He perfected the things he was good at and added new things throughout his career. This should be fun to watch.
 
I wouldn't say Mobley can stretch the floor at this point. He may well get there, but right now he's shooting 31% from the perimeter on very low volume. Teams want him to take 3pt shots.

He thrives in the paint, as does Allen.
He should take those shots then. Mobley doesn't have the frame type to consistently bang in the paint like a traditional big. His center of mass is too high and will likely always be too high. Players with similar proportions (KD, Pau Gasol, etc.,) excelled at face-up mismatches and pick and pops. Players like JA with lower center of masses excel at pick and rolls and cuts to the basket.
 

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