finding defense at the C position

[KCOTT]

Not sure if this is an overreaction from yesterday's GSW game, but Timofey Mozgov (as much as I love the guy) is not having quite the year we were hoping for. Easy missed baskets, fumbling passes, and he has overall been lacking confidence at the C position. But honestly for me, it's not even the offensive lapses that bother me, it's been his inability to be a shot blocker and a rim protector. Yes, he has his moments and I firmly believe he can bounce back to last year's form with time. But regardless if he returns to that state or not, I do believe we need a greater defensive presence at the C position. I haven't been much into the trade rumors yet or which players are likely to be moved, but here are some players I have been thinking about depending on their availability:

- Tyson Chandler, Phoenix
- Larry Sanders, Free Agent
- John Henson, Milwaukee
- Brooke Lopez, Brooklyn
- Omer Asik, New Orleans
- Mason Plumlee, Portland
- Gorgui Dieng, Minnesota (maybe when Pekovic returns)
- Play Sasha Kaun more

 

[KCOTT]

And this isn't a trade Timo thread. More so which guys can we acquire to boost our defense with the limited assets we have.

 

[Cavatt]

I'm interested in seeing Kaun. Not a world beater by any stretch, but we don't need that. We need a rim protector, and he looks like he can do that. Offense and even rebounding can be an afterthought on this team.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I think Timo is playing well defensively, but struggling offensively. The Cavs are at the bottom of the league in pace, but that is by design to rest LeBron while wearing down the opponents. With Kyrie and Shumpert getting healthy, the team should change the way they play and pick up the tempo. That tempo change could mean more Varejao.

 

[Simon]

I'd take Tyson Chandler. But, with his salary at $13M per, I don't think the trade exception, combined with the small trade exception, wouldn't be enough to acquire Chandler.

 

[macbdog]

What about Brittney Griner? Averaged 4 blocks per game this year. Would add some toughness to our forwards.

Maybe Moz should have been rehabbing at the Clinic instead of Bounce Around and a local brew pub.

 

[Mr. Orange]

I'd take Tyson Chandler. But, with his salary at $13M per, I don't think the trade exception, combined with the small trade exception, wouldn't be enough to acquire Chandler.

I didn't think we could combine exceptions. I also don't think we plan to use them. I think we are rolling with the team we have. We have the talent to win the championship, we just need to execute and make shots. Dan Gilbert and David Griffin have put together a championship team, it's all on the players now. No excuses if healthy.

 

[gourimoko]

Both Timo and Tristan are plus-defenders.

It's hard to imagine adding another center unless we're parting ways with one of those two.

If this is in response to yesterday's game, I think it was our offense and our inability to adjust defensively to unexpected threats (Livingston) that was the bigger problem. We did fine defensively in most other respects; actually, I felt we were superb.

Believe me, I get the point of the thread, but I think what we can change is our offense. We need to focus on scoring easier baskets - not just jacking up 3s.

I've never liked the strategy of hoisting as many 3s as possible, and yesterday I honestly believe that was one of the reasons as to why we lost.

Golden State was 5-18 from behind the arc shooting 27.8%; we were 5-30 shooting 16.7%. We just kept jacking up shots and didn't adjust in-game, neither offensively or defensively -- except for when we decided to unleash the LeISO which kept us close.

Give us those wasted offensive possessions back (the senseless three point shooting), and even with our low 2-pt FG% we would have very likely won this game. We out rebounded them, took more shot attempts, and took care of the basketball better than they did. There was no reason to lose this game, other than the fact that we overly relied on our outside shooting and didn't adjust when we couldn't get shots to fall.

Thirty 3-pt attempts in a game, when you've only made 5 all night (2 were in the late part of the 4th) makes no fucking sense at all.

tl;dr

We're failing at getting easy baskets, and that's because our offensive system is just too rudimentary and overly reliant on isolation play. We saw JR Smith and Iman Shumpert, when involved, tasked with isolating off of screens. Who thought that was a good idea?

We're not getting easy transition buckets.. and we seem unable to consistently abuse GSW for playing small even though we have Kevin Love and James who, in theory, should be able to operate in the post and score over most opponents.

I kept seeing them alone on an island against multiple defenders while everyone else stands around watching, whereas GSW would consistently move the ball and catch players in the paint while cutting to the basket.

Our offense was the problem. We don't know how to score easy points.

 

[gourimoko]

I didn't think we could combine exceptions. I also don't think we plan to use them. I think we are rolling with the team we have. We have the talent to win the championship, we just need to execute and make shots. Dan Gilbert and David Griffin have put together a championship team, it's all on the players now. No excuses if healthy.

Yeah, I can't see us adding any more players at this point. Where are the minutes going to come from? If we're adding someone, it'll be because another player is going out; at least, in my opinion.

 

[Jordan]

Both Timo and Tristan are plus-defenders.

It's hard to imagine adding another center unless we're parting ways with one of those two.

If this is in response to yesterday's game, I think it was our offense and our inability to adjust defensively to unexpected threats (Livingston) that was the bigger problem. We did fine defensively in most other respects; actually, I felt we were superb.

Believe me, I get the point of the thread, but I think what we can change is our offense. We need to focus on scoring easier baskets - not just jacking up 3s.

I've never liked the strategy of hoisting as many 3s as possible, and yesterday I honestly believe that was one of the reasons as to why we lost.

Golden State was 5-18 from behind the arc shooting 27.8%; we were 5-30 shooting 16.7%. We just kept jacking up shots and didn't adjust in-game, neither offensively or defensively -- except for when we decided to unleash the LeISO which kept us close.

Give us those wasted offensive possessions back (the senseless three point shooting), and even with our low 2-pt FG% we would have very likely won this game. We out rebounded them, took more shot attempts, and took care of the basketball better than they did. There was no reason to lose this game, other than the fact that we overly relied on our outside shooting and didn't adjust when we couldn't get shots to fall.

Thirty 3-pt attempts in a game, when you've only made 5 all night (2 were in the late part of the 4th) makes no fucking sense at all.

tl;dr

We're failing at getting easy baskets, and that's because our offensive system is just too rudimentary and overly reliant on isolation play. We saw JR Smith and Iman Shumpert, when involved, tasked with isolating off of screens. Who thought that was a good idea?

We're not getting easy transition buckets.. and we seem unable to consistently abuse GSW for playing small even though we have Kevin Love and James who, in theory, should be able to operate in the post and score over most opponents.

I kept seeing them alone on an island against multiple defenders while everyone else stands around watching, whereas GSW would consistently move the ball and catch players in the paint while cutting to the basket.

Our offense was the problem. We don't know how to score easy points.

Exactly this. This is why the Spurs have the second highest eFG% in the NBA and only the 24th highest three point attempts per game. There are ways to be efficient without shooting a bunch of three point shots.

 

[3 Ball...GOT IT]

Looking at Larry Coon's CBA Faq...

Tyson Chandler is making $13 million this season, and the player exceptions are for $10.5 million and $2.85 million. Per the CBA you cannot combine trade exceptions in return for one single player.

But according to what I'm seeing trade exceptions are either considered simultaneous or non-simultaneous. There's no good definition on there for what a simultaneous trade is..."A simultaneous trade takes place all at once".

This is important because there's a loophole in the CBA for teams in the tax trying to acquire a player(s) with a trade exception. For teams in the tax, maximum incoming salary can be 125% of the outgoing salary, plus $100,000. That puts the Haywood exception at $13.225 million (enough to absorb Chandler's salary). However, this is only for simultaneous trades, and I'm not even sure if this would qualify as that.


On the other guys mentioned:
- Larry Sanders, Free Agent - Its extremely doubtful he's ready to return to basketball. I remember hearing the Mavs spoke with him in the offseason. If he was ready he would have signed at some point. Also, I believe he still has a 10 game suspension to serve for whenever he does come back.

- John Henson, Milwaukee - Close to 0% chance Milwaukee would look to move him after just extending him 3 months ago... and they have no reason to deal for a TPE lol.

- Brook Lopez, Brooklyn - $20 million salary, can't be done.

- Omer Asik, New Orleans - $11 million salary, so same situation as Chandler. Pelicans should be looking to shake up their roster and dump him, but you never know with Dell Demps lol. He's been horrible this year too, but our options are limited.

- Mason Plumlee, Portland - Thread title: "finding defense at the C position"... that eliminates Plumlee. Allowing 58% FG on contests at the rim. Portland also has no reason to move him... plus they're under the cap lol.

- Gorgui Dieng, Minnesota (maybe when Pekovic returns) - No chance they're moving him really. They have Shabazz Muhammad playing behind Kevin Martin and Tayshaun Prince on a rebuilding team, and they've refused calls from teams on him lol

- Play Sasha Kaun more

 

[lbusiness]

we need an athletic Defensive big who fits the mold of a Festus Azeli.Someone who has passion and can challenge Mozzy soft ass for the bench 5 spot
Dewayne Dedmon Magic 2015 Season Highlights
https://youtu.be/xJ2aqSjSWyI
https://youtu.be/snntfwaXxt0
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=pggam66
throw in a 2nd rnd pick


He started training camp with golden state.How did we miss on this kid? smh

 

[K1rieIrving>AllOtherPG's]

another name that come to mind is Brandan Wright, and athletic mobile big who only allows 42.9% at the rim.

I'm also worried about this, I just can't see us winning a chip with Mozgov playing like this and with T.T getting major minutes at center vs the powerhouses of the west (esp SAS)

But Moz has shown flashes of his last year self at times, no need to press the panic button yet

 

[I'mWithDan]

I'd take Tyson Chandler. But, with his salary at $13M per, I don't think the trade exception, combined with the small trade exception, wouldn't be enough to acquire Chandler.

We can't combine them.

The trade would have to be something like Varejao and Mozgov for Chandler.

Phoenix is taking a smaller short term hit (+$1.5 million) to gain contract flexibility.

They get out of the long term money owed to Chandler and acquire Varejao, who has one year left (no one is picking up that team option) and might consider a buyout and Mozgov, who could be flipped to someone else.

Phoenix is going to go in the tank without Bledsoe and with all the Morris stuff as well, it might be time to just blow that team up. It's gone nowhere for the last 5 years.

 

[3 Ball...GOT IT]

I'm convinced now Chandler is absolute garbage, and there is close to no chance we go after him IMO


I like DeWayne Dedmon quite a bit. I was lobbying for Orlando to draft WCS to pair with Vucevic to help protect the rim. Low and behold, Dedmon is in the rotation off the bench and somehow Orlando was up to 4th in the league in defense. He's since out of the rotation and their defensive ratings have been dropping quite a bit. Obviously it's not all Dedmon, but they're missing a rim protector while trying to figure out offensive issues with Oladipo/Payton playing together and now starting Frye.

Anyway, not sure how we'd acquire him. Orlando certainly isn't in any rush to trade away talent... and defensive their other bigs are embarrassing (Vucevic, Frye, Nicholson, Jason Smith). I'm shocked they've gone away with him considering the rest of their bigs. Along with that, something that's really curious about Dedmon is his foul rates.

Dedmon this season is averaging 6.7 fouls per 36 minutes lol (#1 in the league min 200 minutes). Still though, he's not ever going to be playing big minutes, so its not a huge issue.

I just don't see how we'd be able to acquire him.