Francisco Lindor

[Derek]

I think where I fall today is "I want to re-sign Lindor, but if we don't, I can see a path where that decision could work out to our benefit. It's not the end of the world that some fans will make it out to be"

Completely agree.

This is baseball.

Losing Lindor would hurt the fans' perception of the team, but I don't think it would hurt the team's outlook all that much.

 

[bob2the2nd]

Completely agree.

This is baseball.

Losing Lindor would hurt the fans' perception of the team, but I don't think it would hurt the team's outlook all that much.

Unless you have a top 10 player waiting in the wings losing a player like Lindor is absolutely going to have a negative impact.

that said at the same time baseball is much more of a team sport than any of the other leagues. Meaning you still contributions for other positions. So while losing a player of Lindors quality isn’t impactful as say if this was basketball, it still would be a significant gut punch

also I agree with Frankie a payroll of 120 or so is where it makes sense to consider re-signing him. If the team payroll will be under that it doesn’t make sense

 

[sportscoach]

Unless you have a top 10 player waiting in the wings losing a player like Lindor is absolutely going to have a negative impact.

that said at the same time baseball is much more of a team sport than any of the other leagues. Meaning you still contributions for other positions. So while losing a player of Lindors quality isn’t impactful as say if this was basketball, it still would be a significant gut punch

also I agree with Frankie a payroll of 120 or so is where it makes sense to consider re-signing him. If the team payroll will be under that it doesn’t make sense

I mean honestly I know it's the console game, but I almost always made the playoffs if I stayed between a 120-150 payroll and always developed in house and let go/traded guys who are at the end of their contracts.

Now if I was a fan, I would hate that since I almost never kept players much past 30 since that is when contracts/extensions where up. I always though did my best to keep a strong farm system.

In my mind Lindors statement isnt wrong since if Cleveland keeps the same system in place, we should be able to compete with that payroll every season. Especially if we keep up the fact we only have 3 players right now on the 40 man roster that we signed as free agents. Everyone else we acquired via trades, waivers or drafted. When you can do that you usually can keep the price of your team down.

 

[Derek]

Unless you have a top 10 player waiting in the wings losing a player like Lindor is absolutely going to have a negative impact.

that said at the same time baseball is much more of a team sport than any of the other leagues. Meaning you still contributions for other positions. So while losing a player of Lindors quality isn’t impactful as say if this was basketball, it still would be a significant gut punch

also I agree with Frankie a payroll of 120 or so is where it makes sense to consider re-signing him. If the team payroll will be under that it doesn’t make sense

Maybe we're just quibbling over terminology, but I just wouldn't view losing Lindor as taking a significant hit. There's not a player in baseball I would though. It's simply the nature of the game.

 

[bigfoot5415]

Makes sense. 30 for him and 90 for everyone else.

So, basically the team we have now, just with Lindor making 30 million.

*Additional $13M. I think he is due $17M this year, so it it would be an increase on that.

I dont get why we dont sign him to a 10 year deal and front the as much as humanely possible in years 1 & 2 while everyone is still under control. I know $120M isnt the concern; its what happens after the $120M when some of these guys start needing new deals.

 

[B Mac]

I may have missed it, but I've seen a lot of people talk about signing Lindor boosting attendance (may or may not be true), but how about the inverse? If we do assume that extending him boosts attendance, shouldn't we also consider what will happen to attendance if Lindor is traded or let go? I know the extreme is to say that attendance is bad enough now that it wont matter, but I think its something the front office absolutely has to consider.

 

[Out of the Rafters at the Q]

I may have missed it, but I've seen a lot of people talk about signing Lindor boosting attendance (may or may not be true), but how about the inverse? If we do assume that extending him boosts attendance, shouldn't we also consider what will happen to attendance if Lindor is traded or let go? I know the extreme is to say that attendance is bad enough now that it wont matter, but I think its something the front office absolutely has to consider.

I'd love to see the venn diagram of fans saying they refuse to go support the Indians because the Dolans let Lindor walk, and the fans who actually go support the team.

 

[Derek]

I may have missed it, but I've seen a lot of people talk about signing Lindor boosting attendance (may or may not be true), but how about the inverse? If we do assume that extending him boosts attendance, shouldn't we also consider what will happen to attendance if Lindor is traded or let go? I know the extreme is to say that attendance is bad enough now that it wont matter, but I think its something the front office absolutely has to consider.

Sign Lindor = minor attendance bump
Let Lindor walk = sizable attendance drop

I don't think the FO should let that influence their decisions at all though

 

[Iusetobeover]

I don't buy that it impacts attendance. We can sign Lindor and it might be a tiny bump now. We let him go and a few folks get mad. Sure.

But does anything think that if we are 62-100 after signing Lindor attendance wont drop? While if we let him walk but win the WS it won't go up?

We sign Lindor and it will be on to the next complaint: but they didn't sign Bieber! ARam! Reyes! Clev! You start chasing stars and the fans that want you to chase stars will keep wanting you to chase more stars!

A great player like Lindor is going to get 11ish% of the ABs. He'll have less than that impact on the defense (given the increase in Ks).

THE key to building and maintaining a franchise is to develop from within.
Hold on to your stars as long as you can while you win. When you don't win, trade the ones heading to FA.
Rinse. Repeat.
Use FA only to fill holes in an otherwise stable ship.
But you CAN NOT be afraid to let players walk. It sure beats paying them 35 mil a year in their late 30s!

 

[sportscoach]

I don't buy that it impacts attendance. We can sign Lindor and it might be a tiny bump now. We let him go and a few folks get mad. Sure.

But does anything think that if we are 62-100 after signing Lindor attendance wont drop? While if we let him walk but win the WS it won't go up?

We sign Lindor and it will be on to the next complaint: but they didn't sign Bieber! ARam! Reyes! Clev! You start chasing stars and the fans that want you to chase stars will keep wanting you to chase more stars!

A great player like Lindor is going to get 11ish% of the ABs. He'll have less than that impact on the defense (given the increase in Ks).

THE key to building and maintaining a franchise is to develop from within.
Hold on to your stars as long as you can while you win. When you don't win, trade the ones heading to FA.
Rinse. Repeat.
Use FA only to fill holes in an otherwise stable ship.
But you CAN NOT be afraid to let players walk. It sure beats paying them 35 mil a year in their late 30s!

You arent wrong and I can see them trying to keep the core guys like Bieber, Clev, Reyes etc and extending them and keeping them as the veterans for the next set of guys coming up. I think with the fan base we need to resign him to try and get rid of the stigma of the Dolans being cheap overall. Maybe that can help fix some of the issues with attendance but I dont trust resigning Lindor will help bring up attendance. It would hurt us more not resigning him overall, but how much it will help us in the end, we would have to see.

 

[Benway]

The back end of that $350MM deal is going to be a back breaker. When he moves to 3B or RF and hits .265 he's going to be an anchor like Joe Mauer was at 1B for Mommy. Edit: Minny autocorrected to "Mommy" which is somehow much better anyway. Mommy!

 

[Lee]

The back end of that $350MM deal is going to be a back breaker. When he moves to 3B or RF and hits .265 he's going to be an anchor like Joe Mauer was at 1B for Mommy. Edit: Minny autocorrected to "Mommy" which is somehow much better anyway. Mommy!

To be fair, even a mid 30's Mauer used to crush it for Mommy, knocked those boots out of the park.

 

[Benway]

My takeaway from the "enjoy him" flap is simply this: Lindor will never be better for anyone else, at any price, than he is for us now. We're eating the cake that someone else will shortly be buying.

 

[Stark]

I don't think Mauer is the best comparison for Lindor long-term.

Lindor has way more natural power than Mauer ever had, and Mauer broke down a bit earlier because he had all of that mileage from playing catcher for the first half of his career. Lindor is a far better natural athlete and is going to have a lot less wear and tear on his body.

I see no reason why Lindor cannot be a 5+ bWAR player for the next 7-8 years at least (up through his age 34 season). His bat is going to age just fine and he should still be a top echelon fielder for the next however many years as well. When he starts losing a bit of range, he can move to third base like Cal Ripken Jr. did.

 

[Benway]

That's c

I don't think Mauer is the best comparison for Lindor long-term.

Lindor has way more natural power than Mauer ever had, and Mauer broke down a bit earlier because he had all of that mileage from playing catcher for the first half of his career. Lindor is a far better natural athlete and is going to have a lot less wear and tear on his body.

I see no reason why Lindor cannot be a 5+ bWAR player for the next 7-8 years at least (up through his age 34 season). His bat is going to age just fine and he should still be a top echelon fielder for the next however many years as well. When he starts losing a bit of range, he can move to third base like Cal Ripken Jr. did.

That's certainly true; I was looking more for a market/contract analogy than a player skills match. Lindor's most valuable skill is playing superior shortstop while hitting. When he enters his next phase (Likely in 5 years) his contract will be very hard indeed to justify.
Mauer had amazing skills and reflexes as a catcher. Most of that value was lost when Minny moved him to first in an attempt to preserve his offense, which was largely unsuccessful as his offense declined regardless. Lindor will not likely suffer such a steep decline in player value.