Just trying to feel better when we are doing these 1 (Bauer) for 6 players , 1 for 2 (Kluber), 2 for 6 (Clevinger) and this 2 for 4 (Lindor) type trades. I am always more of a quality over quantity type guy. I just don't see a space for Gimenez or Rosario long-term .... and not hopeful on 2021 or 2022 seasons vs Twins and Sox. Thus, I was looking at how our deep depth of minor league talent may play out (I know too much speculation but what else are we to do until ST and start of Ramirez rumors) -- this is meant for prospect geeks like me
The first thing that anyone will notice is the amount of Rule 5 prospects we have over next 2 years (even w/o Ramirez trade). We will be losing more than Oviedo and Tom. But as others posters will say ... some will be traded. We just got to hope the team that other team has excess OF/C with multi year control are looking for middle infielders in AA/AAA for 2/3 for 1 trades. (I assume pitchers are always in demand). And, yes some middle infielders, are going to switch to OF and 3b (to fill holes), just hope they have a good enough bat to fill the position.
And, in reality, Ramirez trade should bring back 2 or 3 of our biggest needs (OF, C, 3B if Jones goes to OF) and I know I said I rather have quality over quantity ... but Ram is going to bring both (with 2-1/2 to 3 years left) versus Lindor 1 and Clevinger 2 -- where we settled on quantity (both near ready and prospects) over quality.
Dodgers -- BaseballTradevalue gets us (Top 4 ) -- Gray, Ruiz, Hoese and Busch (if we throw in a minor chip) -- no outfield ready prospects other than Peters (who is quantity over quality) -- so can add L. Rodriquez (to join 2024 OF w Valera) over Busch
Braves -- Trade value gets us at least Waters, Langeliers, Muller plus minor chip(s) like Franklin/Shuster
Now onto our prospects
Rule 5 – 2021 (and FanGraph Rank)
So we will at least add (7) -- Valera, Freeman, Bracho, Miller, Cantillo ... and I assume 2 of Palacios, Tena, Planez and Sandlin (depending on who breaks-out)
We will need to drop (unless one breaks out) those with limited options by then (0 opt) Bauers, Plutko, (1 opt) Bradley, Chang, Zimmer & other folder like Taylor. Out of this group Bradley has the best shot at making it (hopefully to push Naylor to OF and keep Jones at 3B in AAA until Ramirez is traded).
They may even trade Whitgren at this deadline as he is FA after 2022 and has value as 7th/8th inning guy that we will not pay for being our 7th inning guy in 2023 behind Kar and Clase (and starters out of options like Allen/Mejia/Hentges in the pen).
And, the following year, adds to the problem as there are few, if any FA left
Thus, if 4 or 5 make the roster, the other players at the bottom of our current roster are Hill, Stephan, Rosario, Humphries, Moss, Luplow, Clement (just don't see room for him), Nelson. As we will get a few prospects for Ramirez and possibly Wittgren, most of these guys are gone (I am pulling for Mejia/Stephan as part of our hard throwing pen -- just need the control to keep them).
The other big question, is what do we do with our starters as Bieber will only have 23/24 left before he is a FA and the rest Plesac, Civale, Quant, Allen have 23/24/25 left. Big turnover unless one or two can be extended soon.
40 man projection for 2023 Season
20 Pitchers -- (Starters) Bieber, Plesac, Quant, McK, Civale
(Top 5 Relief?) Kar, Clase, Hentges, Mejia, L. Allen (no opt for all 3 in 2022)
(Depth AAA starters) Cantillo, Torres, Hankins, Vargas, Morgan,
(No option) Moss so pen bound? (16 so far)
Plus Four of Maton, Miko, Morris, Curry, Gaddis, Sandlin, Nelson, Hill, Humphries, Stephan, Scott, Burgos (all will be Rule 5 by then) -- OR who we get in Ramirez trade
20 Fielders -- (3 catchers) Naylor, Lavastida, Diaz or other catcher (e.g., resign Perez/Hedges?),
Starters (8) + Super utililty (2) Reyes, Mercado, Johnson, Valera, Jones, Naylor, Arias, Freeman, Miller, Gimenez
(4 top prospects - Rule V protect) Bracho, Rocchio, Martinez, Rodriquez, (17 so far)
3 others out of Luplow, Bradley, Clement, Rosario, Palacios, Tena, Planez, Delgado, Noel, Kwan - Or who we get in Ramirez trade like OF prospect
Ohhh ... and by the way ... Dec 2023 Rule 5 is Espino, Burns, Allen, Wolf, Pestrano (Int FA) ... (so are cutting again as first FA is Nov 2024 in Reyes, Luplow and Bieber).
In sumary, 2 top people in this Lindor/Cookie trade are either projected utility players (Gimenez) by 2023 or cut in roster crunch (Rosario) ... great use of assets if we are not seriously contending in 2021 or 2022. How does that Toronto rumor (bigger upside) start looking now if we could have landed a stud at a needed position OF/C...
The first thing that anyone will notice is the amount of Rule 5 prospects we have over next 2 years (even w/o Ramirez trade). We will be losing more than Oviedo and Tom. But as others posters will say ... some will be traded. We just got to hope the team that other team has excess OF/C with multi year control are looking for middle infielders in AA/AAA for 2/3 for 1 trades. (I assume pitchers are always in demand). And, yes some middle infielders, are going to switch to OF and 3b (to fill holes), just hope they have a good enough bat to fill the position.
And, in reality, Ramirez trade should bring back 2 or 3 of our biggest needs (OF, C, 3B if Jones goes to OF) and I know I said I rather have quality over quantity ... but Ram is going to bring both (with 2-1/2 to 3 years left) versus Lindor 1 and Clevinger 2 -- where we settled on quantity (both near ready and prospects) over quality.
Dodgers -- BaseballTradevalue gets us (Top 4 ) -- Gray, Ruiz, Hoese and Busch (if we throw in a minor chip) -- no outfield ready prospects other than Peters (who is quantity over quality) -- so can add L. Rodriquez (to join 2024 OF w Valera) over Busch
Braves -- Trade value gets us at least Waters, Langeliers, Muller plus minor chip(s) like Franklin/Shuster
Now onto our prospects
Rule 5 – 2021 (and FanGraph Rank)
So we will at least add (7) -- Valera, Freeman, Bracho, Miller, Cantillo ... and I assume 2 of Palacios, Tena, Planez and Sandlin (depending on who breaks-out)
We will need to drop (unless one breaks out) those with limited options by then (0 opt) Bauers, Plutko, (1 opt) Bradley, Chang, Zimmer & other folder like Taylor. Out of this group Bradley has the best shot at making it (hopefully to push Naylor to OF and keep Jones at 3B in AAA until Ramirez is traded).
They may even trade Whitgren at this deadline as he is FA after 2022 and has value as 7th/8th inning guy that we will not pay for being our 7th inning guy in 2023 behind Kar and Clase (and starters out of options like Allen/Mejia/Hentges in the pen).
And, the following year, adds to the problem as there are few, if any FA left
7 | Bo Naylor | Raynel Delgado |
10 | Lenny Torres | Xzavion Curry |
11 | Angel Martinez | |
12 | Ethan Hankins | |
24 | Nick Mikolajchak | |
27 | Gabriel Rodriguez | |
29 | Hunter Gaddis | |
Thus, if 4 or 5 make the roster, the other players at the bottom of our current roster are Hill, Stephan, Rosario, Humphries, Moss, Luplow, Clement (just don't see room for him), Nelson. As we will get a few prospects for Ramirez and possibly Wittgren, most of these guys are gone (I am pulling for Mejia/Stephan as part of our hard throwing pen -- just need the control to keep them).
The other big question, is what do we do with our starters as Bieber will only have 23/24 left before he is a FA and the rest Plesac, Civale, Quant, Allen have 23/24/25 left. Big turnover unless one or two can be extended soon.
40 man projection for 2023 Season
20 Pitchers -- (Starters) Bieber, Plesac, Quant, McK, Civale
(Top 5 Relief?) Kar, Clase, Hentges, Mejia, L. Allen (no opt for all 3 in 2022)
(Depth AAA starters) Cantillo, Torres, Hankins, Vargas, Morgan,
(No option) Moss so pen bound? (16 so far)
Plus Four of Maton, Miko, Morris, Curry, Gaddis, Sandlin, Nelson, Hill, Humphries, Stephan, Scott, Burgos (all will be Rule 5 by then) -- OR who we get in Ramirez trade
20 Fielders -- (3 catchers) Naylor, Lavastida, Diaz or other catcher (e.g., resign Perez/Hedges?),
Starters (8) + Super utililty (2) Reyes, Mercado, Johnson, Valera, Jones, Naylor, Arias, Freeman, Miller, Gimenez
(4 top prospects - Rule V protect) Bracho, Rocchio, Martinez, Rodriquez, (17 so far)
3 others out of Luplow, Bradley, Clement, Rosario, Palacios, Tena, Planez, Delgado, Noel, Kwan - Or who we get in Ramirez trade like OF prospect
Ohhh ... and by the way ... Dec 2023 Rule 5 is Espino, Burns, Allen, Wolf, Pestrano (Int FA) ... (so are cutting again as first FA is Nov 2024 in Reyes, Luplow and Bieber).
In sumary, 2 top people in this Lindor/Cookie trade are either projected utility players (Gimenez) by 2023 or cut in roster crunch (Rosario) ... great use of assets if we are not seriously contending in 2021 or 2022. How does that Toronto rumor (bigger upside) start looking now if we could have landed a stud at a needed position OF/C...