Game 38 | Cleveland @ Denver | January 8, 2010 | 10:30 EST

[Gunther]

from windy... all that needs to be said.



Mike brown = fail.

seriously, who experiments a whole freaking quarter while there big men are dominated us and we need offense?

Greg Popovich does, and he's Mike Brown's mentor.

Another way to look at this is that it is good that MB is experimenting now, so that he understands fully all of his options later. Worked for Poppy.

But, that said, I agree with you that Mike Brown had as much to do with this loss tonight as anyone.

 

[MikeSwim07]

Shaq really hurt us getting into foul trouble really early. Then Andy, AV had some tbad fouls.

We definitely should have won this game. After seeing BOS, ORL, and LAL lose, I though we could catch/gain a game on them. But....

Lebron was just not playing well at all. 8 turnovers...lmao. Mo was nonexistent in the 2nd half.

 

[DougHeil]

20 turnovers. Many were unforced, including many by LeBron. Eleven missed foul shots. Bad offense for long stretches. Bad defense for long stretches. Lack of interest for long stretches as well. Some Brown VERY questionable rotation changes. Not playing West the last seven minutes or Shaq when he got his fifth foul was just ridiculous. They couldn't guard Shaq when he was in there.

Yeah sure; there were some questionable calls. Don't people realize when you play away you will NOT get the good calls? This isn't just a Cavs thing, but an entire league-wide thing. The actual foul situation was about even though.

The CAVS LOST THIS GAME. The refs did not lose this game. NO team can start out bad and also finish bad on defense and expect to win against the good teams. I posted something similiar earlier in this thread AND was validated by what Mike Brown said in his presser. Brown never gave an excuse of the refs. The Cav's players didn't either. We lost. They won.

Some calls people are bringing up were very judgmental calls. Delonte's clear path was VERY close. It went against the Cavs. Oh well. A few charges were close. Oh well.

If the Cavs had come to play the game the right way from the start, we would have won by plenty. We didn't. We lost. Not too hard to understand. Get over it. The Cavs better get over it or else the Blazers will kick their ass on Sunday. ... and possibly two or three more teams on this road trip. If the Cavs play the way can and should play, they cannot be beat. We didn't play that way last night. We got beat. This isn't hard.

 

[nime]

Trap Game....no Melo, Lawson, or Anderson.

JR Smith is going to go off for a ton of 3's.
Billups will be destroying Mo.

LBJ will LeIso jumpers all night.

Thats how to lose tonight vs Denver.

Terrible game last night. LBJ was awful. So many LeIso jumpers.
He wastes so many possessions with awful shots. 8 turnovers won't do either.

JR Smith didn't go off but he hit a huge 3 which was bound to happen.

Mo Williams was a complete mismatch, he couldn't guard anyone but Carter. I thought Mike Brown was a fool to not have Delonte on the floor at all times when Billups was in the game.

Kenyon Martin has no business getting that many pts. Shaq was awful on defense. Z was a little better but the team needed a guy like Powe last night.

WTF was Detroit thinking trading Billups? The one mismatch the Pistons had over the Cavs they trade.... A Billups/Stuckey backcourt made much more sense than keeping Rip.

This team is one reason we need a Jamison. Defensively Mo isn't going to match up well or score enough because of it. West needs to be on Billups, he's our new Snow on Chauncey. Parker on Smith/Affalo, LBJ on Melo, AV,Z,Shaq on Nene, and that stretch 4 to cover Martin.

 

[AvonCavsFan]

I disagree with some of the bitching...I am not a MB supporter as some of you know, but I think he made the right move in not playing Shaq in the 4th. Facts are facts, we were minus 11 with Shaq in the game, you can debate all you want that plus/minus is useless stat, but the fact is when he was on the court they scored 11 more points than us, if he plays all 48 minutes and he is minus that means we lost the game, simple as that. Is this all his fault? No...but when you have a team, your job is to mix the pieces to get the best results.

A lot of people were griping about Z, but he played a pretty good game over all AND if the refs don't call the charge on Andy, EVERYONE would have been all over Z's jock for nailing another crunch time three ball. I was one of the bitchers about Z early on, but I can admit I was wrong on the big guy, he has played some good ball lately.

The more questionable move by MB to me was Delonte not being out there for his defense in crunch time. And I still don't know why Boobie is getting no time, he is our best three point shooter and from what I have seen this year, his defense is better also.

I would have liked to seen a West-Boobie-Parker-Lebron-Andy lineup for a few minutes.

As for the guys not trying, I think that is harsh. This is the NBA, the other professionals CAN play and sometimes they hit shots that percentages say they won't (Smith shoots just 30% from three, so a 25 footer is not likely to go in that often).

Andy keeps showing that he worth every bit of what we paid him. 9 pts 15 boards, 3 steals, and 2 blocks...but anyone notice Kenyon started off hot as hell and was 7 for 11...he finished 9-21, so he went 2 for his last 10...a lot of that was because of Andy. The only thing he didn't do was make his free throws....

Our end of quarter/game situation is just terrible and is probably my #1 gripe with MB. He has to get it across to Lebron that what we are doing is not working. We need to go for the 2 for 1 when it presents itself. As for Lebron's poor shooting in these situations, anyone else notice he does that exaggerated leg kick when he shoots these shots?? If he just rose up and shot a normal jump shot, he would make far more in my opinion. and we would have less to bitch about!

 

[DougHeil]

I disagree with some of the bitching...I am not a MB supporter as some of you know, but I think he made the right move in not playing Shaq in the 4th. Facts are facts, we were minus 11 with Shaq in the game, you can debate all you want that plus/minus is useless stat, but the fact is when he was on the court they scored 11 more points than us, if he plays all 48 minutes and he is minus that means we lost the game, simple as that. Is this all his fault? No...but when you have a team, your job is to mix the pieces to get the best results.

A lot of people were griping about Z, but he played a pretty good game over all AND if the refs don't call the charge on Andy, EVERYONE would have been all over Z's jock for nailing another crunch time three ball. I was one of the bitchers about Z early on, but I can admit I was wrong on the big guy, he has played some good ball lately.

The more questionable move by MB to me was Delonte not being out there for his defense in crunch time. And I still don't know why Boobie is getting no time, he is our best three point shooter and from what I have seen this year, his defense is better also.

I would have liked to seen a West-Boobie-Parker-Lebron-Andy lineup for a few minutes.

As for the guys not trying, I think that is harsh. This is the NBA, the other professionals CAN play and sometimes they hit shots that percentages say they won't (Smith shoots just 30% from three, so a 25 footer is not likely to go in that often).

Andy keeps showing that he worth every bit of what we paid him. 9 pts 15 boards, 3 steals, and 2 blocks...but anyone notice Kenyon started off hot as hell and was 7 for 11...he finished 9-21, so he went 2 for his last 10...a lot of that was because of Andy. The only thing he didn't do was make his free throws....

Our end of quarter/game situation is just terrible and is probably my #1 gripe with MB. He has to get it across to Lebron that what we are doing is not working. We need to go for the 2 for 1 when it presents itself. As for Lebron's poor shooting in these situations, anyone else notice he does that exaggerated leg kick when he shoots these shots?? If he just rose up and shot a normal jump shot, he would make far more in my opinion. and we would have less to bitch about!

I agree with your post except parts about Shaq. Brown kept Shaq in the game in the 3rd quarter when he got his 4th foul. He should have sat out at that time as we were losing ground. Putting him back in at the start of the 4th would have been a better move. Even when he got his 5th foul, I really don't understand why you do not play him after that. In fact; it might have worked better with both Z and Shaq on the floor at the same time, with LeBron, Delonte, at least for parts of the quarter. We seemed to lose many rebounds to second shots, etc in the 4th quarter. Parker was no help and Mo wasn't into the game in the second half. West sitting the bench was pathetic. Moon would have helped last night as well.

I can't defend Brown in this game though. Many games I can, but not the game last night. He clearly and totally was out-coached.

 

[MDLT]

Seemed like Bron and the boys did some partying last night with Melo and his boys. Neither team seemed into the game. Looked like hangover central out there.

But the best part was the shot of Renaldo Balkman looking stoned out of his mind on the bench. Hilarious.

 

[Riker]

Some interesting notes from denverstiffs.com

Yours truly had the privilege of sitting right behind the Cavaliers bench

the Cavaliers clearly have good camaraderie among the players. LBJ joked with teammates, the Cavs traveling ballboy and even Nuggets fans during introductions and everyone was having a great time. That wouldn't be the case 48 minutes of basketball later.

Mike Brown doesn't coach, he delegates. One of the Cavaliers assistants draws up all the offensive plays on the dry erase board while another assistant draws up all the defensive plays. No joke. Brown observes, barks, cheers, etc but doesn't draw up the plays himself. In fact, throughout the entire game, Brown touched the dry erase board just once.

LBJ checks the stat sheets that the media relations people hand out during the game. When I asked the Cavaliers media person why this is, she told me that LBJ "is very statistically oriented" and uses stats in working on his strategy throughout the game. When I told my Cavaliers fan friends this after the game, they called bullshit.

At some point in the third quarter, LBJ and Brown went at it during a Nuggets free throw. They yelled back and forth about LBJ's defensive position on the play before, with Brown barking that LBJ needed to cover one of the Nuggets bigs while LBJ barked back that that would have been an illegal defense call. When the Nugget (I don't remember who) finally sank his second free throw, Brown shut up, LBJ shut up for a beat, and then turned to the assistant coaches and yelled: "I'm right!!" That was the quote of the game. The argument continued during the next game break and Mo Williams had to calm LBJ down.

 

[redscoon]

Just had a chance to watch this. As usual, we were outcoached and came out lazy against an undermanned team.

Mo nothing but jumpers against a good team. Rinse and repeat.

Lebron started hogging the ball and stalling the offense. In his defense, the offense was completely ragged when he sat to start the 4th as the team proceeded to score nothing without him.

It would be nice if another big besides Andy actually played some defense. With no Melo to worry about and JR Smith struggling, there is no reason for Birdman, Kenyon and Nene to be having a dunk contest all night. At the very least, hack those guys.

Refs again leave a bad taste. The 5th foul on Shaq was comical. He can't help the fact that he is twice as strong as anybody that tries to guard him. However, he had just drawn 3 fouls in about a minute, so you knew the first time the refs had a chance to get a make up in, it was coming. That really took away from our offense and Shaq curiously disappeared entirely after that.

The most egregious ref screw up was the non-call on the moving screen by JR to free up the tying 3 pointer. They don't get any clearer than that. That was the most critical play of the game and it's a shame the refs don't have enough balls to make the right call against the home team.

All that being said, the Cavs have no business losing to a Nuggets team with no Melo and JR Smith only going for 11. It looked like a team that wasn't ready to compete early and who knew their competitors in the east had fallen earlier.

 

[NarlCavs]

Not one Cav was on last night for the entire game. Just an off night all the way around. Still, a game that should have been won and despite the poor play and off night they almost pulled it out.

LeBron's final numbers look nice for the most part but a pretty poor effort from him. I'd also look to his defense too and not just the stagnating of the offense. There was a number of times last night where LeBron made no effort to rotate and stood and watched on the defensive end. That's inexcusable from your supposed leader and an all NBA defensive player. He honestly doesn't deserve to be on any all defensive teams this year. The chase down blocks look nice and get him on the highlights but I'd rather have someone be or at least try to be where they're supposed to be within the defense and fulfill their assignments.

I hate to blame officiating and that's not at all the reason for the loss last night but it was a factor. In a close game a number of questionable calls and more importantly missed calls were a factor. At a minimum LeBron was obviously fouled on 3 drives to the basket and a case could be made on 6 drives. Varejao also could have easily gotten calls on 2 or 3 attempts under the basket.
It's frustrating watching contact at the basket not get called while minor touches on the perimeter that have no bearing on the play or action do get called.

One thing the Cavs could use on their roster and have needed for a few years is a quick G who can defend or at least somewhat slow down opposing PG's. Mo can't do it and Delonte is usually better on SG's and is unpredictable anyway.

 

[Otsego Mar]

Not one Cav was on last night for the entire game. Just an off night all the way around. Still, a game that should have been won and despite the poor play and off night they almost pulled it out.

LeBron's final numbers look nice for the most part but a pretty poor effort from him. I'd also look to his defense too and not just the stagnating of the offense. There was a number of times last night where LeBron made no effort to rotate and stood and watched on the defensive end. That's inexcusable from your supposed leader and an all NBA defensive player. He honestly doesn't deserve to be on any all defensive teams this year. The chase down blocks look nice and get him on the highlights but I'd rather have someone be or at least try to be where they're supposed to be within the defense and fulfill their assignments.

I hate to blame officiating and that's not at all the reason for the loss last night but it was a factor. In a close game a number of questionable calls and more importantly missed calls were a factor. At a minimum LeBron was obviously fouled on 3 drives to the basket and a case could be made on 6 drives. Varejao also could have easily gotten calls on 2 or 3 attempts under the basket.
It's frustrating watching contact at the basket not get called while minor touches on the perimeter that have no bearing on the play or action do get called.

One thing the Cavs could use on their roster and have needed for a few years is a quick G who can defend or at least somewhat slow down opposing PG's. Mo can't do it and Delonte is usually better on SG's and is unpredictable anyway.

I couldn't agree more with this. Unless he picks it up in the 2nd half of the season, he shouldn't even be considered for First-Team Defensive honors, or maybe even 2nd. However, I think it's come to a point where just being LeBron James automatically puts him at least on the 2nd team. Of course, he has all the gifts to be the best defensive player in the league, and he shows it often. It's just not a consistent effort.

 

[Green Lantern]

I didn't see all the game..but what I did see,I didn't like...too many TO's..l;ate in the game too much of Le-Pound the ball until I can take all five to the hole...Cavs turned it on too late...I can't complain too because I didn't see enough ..kept falling asleeo..

 

[AvonCavsFan]

I agree with your post except parts about Shaq. Brown kept Shaq in the game in the 3rd quarter when he got his 4th foul. He should have sat out at that time as we were losing ground. Putting him back in at the start of the 4th would have been a better move. Even when he got his 5th foul, I really don't understand why you do not play him after that. In fact; it might have worked better with both Z and Shaq on the floor at the same time, with LeBron, Delonte, at least for parts of the quarter. We seemed to lose many rebounds to second shots, etc in the 4th quarter. Parker was no help and Mo wasn't into the game in the second half. West sitting the bench was pathetic. Moon would have helped last night as well.

I can't defend Brown in this game though. Many games I can, but not the game last night. He clearly and totally was out-coached.

I don't disagree, I never understood when coaches save players with fouls....he should have started the 4th like we normally do and then went from there. Like I said, I don't think it was all his fault that he was minus 11 for the game, I would have liked to see him play a few more minutes early 4th when Lebron was out.