Game Thread | 2020-21 Season | Game #57 | Cavs @ Pistons | April 19, 2021

[roozy]

Bey was shooting over Kevin Love the entire night lol.

And Allen WAS the issue on almost all of those oops. He wasn't getting a foot off the ground.

Josh Jackson was 5-16. Guess who spent most of the night on him.

I'm not gonna go to the mat that those two are gonna be great defenders. Garland is particularly atrocious on that end and most likely always will be.


But that was not the problem tonight and hoenstly hasn't been the problem most of the season.


Either way, this is pointless. If you watched that game and the last game and the one before that and most of them this season...defense hasn't been the primary issue. They can't shoot the ball.

But go on.

This! What's causing issues is not the defense it's the SHOOTING, they can't hit 3's to save their life. They have to be the worst 3 point shooting team in the league.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

you hear time and time again about trying to mimic Portland, but its night and day when it comes to the 3's.

Plus, Portland’s midgets are actually GOOD. Their midgets are like Peter Dinklage and Verne Troyer - cool midgets. OUR midgets are like a couple of random munchkins from The Wizard of Oz. Run-of-the-mill, ordinary midgets. Nerd midgets.

That isn’t the proper nomenclature, IS it? Should I be saying LITTLE PEOPLE? VERTICALLY-CHALLENGED people?

 

[KilgoreTrout]

I just rewatched that Sexton/jackson play and he most definitely wasn't caught ball watching.

He reached in and caused Josh Jackson to fumble the ball and almost caused a TO.

He then cut off the backdoor cut and Frank Jackson caught the ball at the 3 point line. Sexton ran him off of it and honestly Hartenstein needs to be able to deter that shot and he absolutely can't give up the And 1 there.

Maybe it wasn't the smartest play but the Cavs half-court offense is so bad they have to take some chances to force turnovers.

Frank Jackson shouldn't be finishing over our 7'0 C and getting an And 1.

Why was Allen playing like a zombie? Shouldn’t he have been in there?

 

[dartandbeer]

idk if that backcourt is a winning combo.
Id rather keep sexton then garland though.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

Sexton and Garland had 51 points on 21-39 shooting, 8 rebounds, 10 assists, 3 steals and 3 blocks. They were plainly the problem.

You are correct. Our entire starting front-court shot 11-26 (0-8 from 3), with 26 points and 16 rebounds. Straight vomit.

 

[Rich]

The best player on the court all night was Isaiah Stewart.

The worst player on the court all night was Jarrett Allen.

These are obviously correlated.

Allen isn't close to the player he was when he first came here right now.

He was our best player. I thought he was the one good thing we had going for us. Giving him a big contract seemed easy.

No idea what's happened.

 

[jhernjh]

The best player on the court all night was Isaiah Stewart.

The worst player on the court all night was Jarrett Allen.

These are obviously correlated.

Allen isn't close to the player he was when he first came here right now.

He was our best player. I thought he was the one good thing we had going for us. Giving him a big contract seemed easy.

No idea what's happened.

Probably trying to play through the concussion.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

The best player on the court all night was Isaiah Stewart.

The worst player on the court all night was Jarrett Allen.

These are obviously correlated.

Allen isn't close to the player he was when he first came here right now.

He was our best player. I thought he was the one good thing we had going for us. Giving him a big contract seemed easy.

No idea what's happened.

Totallly agree. I was so happy to see that wimp Allen pulled after he airmailed that pass out of bounds. He got the ball six feet from the rim and had no interest in shooting. If it's not a lob or an uncontested dunk he wants nothing to do with it. I think Hartenstein has earned the starting job. See if coming off the bench lights a semblance of a competitive fire under Allen's lethargic butt.

This loss was very predictable. Every time the Cavs play a team with three starters out, including their best player, the Cavs come out half-asleep and get blown out in the first quarter. They were not ready to compete - again. Garland was saying yesterday it's the first and third quarters that have been killing them. They know that, so why aren't they doing something about it?

Tonight they let Bey take one uncontested 3-pointer after another. He knocked down six in a row with no resistance. There was no defensive effort whatsoever as the last place and injury ravaged Pistons got out to a 37-14 lead.

The game was lost in the first quarter, but Garland choking two late free throws and the Cavs comically bad 3-point shooting did the rest. Love, Okoro, Garland, and Wade were a combined 2-for-18 on 3's.

Sexton had a good game going 12-for-20 with 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 blocks and a +11 in 38 minutes. That means the Cavs were outscored by 15 in the 10 minutes he was on the bench.

Hartenstein had a strong game with a line of 13/6/4 with 3 blocks in 20 minutes. Compare that to Allen's five points and five rebounds in 28 minutes of hanging around the paint. It drives me crazy when he gets a pass right in front of the rim with a smaller man on him and decides to do a spin move and gets stripped or his shot blocked. Just power the ball to the rim. He's all finesse and against a brute like Stewart he had no chance. I am so done with watching him fumble passes, fumble rebounds, and get stripped or blocked at the rim with no foul called.

Stewart kicked Allen's butt with 18 points and 16 rebounds for a +20. Yeah, he was the best player on the court. He was the #16 overall pick last year, so he's got some talent. But slow, weak Jarrett Allen was no match for a guy who's 6'8", 250 pounds, and plays like you're trying to take food off his table.

Love didn't have his worst game with 15 points and 8 boards, but he was 0-for-4 on 3's. If he just makes one and Garland hits 3-for-3 free throws the Cavs win this one. Love has made 3 of his last 21 attempts from deep. What is wrong with him? And why does Allen look so disinterested? I wonder if the front office is wondering if they should invest $100 million for five years with a center who can't score and doesn't want to unless he's unguarded.

 

[Mcreek]

Stewart was a guy i really liked but not at the 5th pick. A Modern day Charles Oakley who treated Allen like He was Brad Sellars. Allen though looks very passive since returning from his concussion. Hartenstein would have had a huge nite with 30 plus minutes. A 25/15/5 blocks, 7-8 assist nite.This is all on Bickerstaff. In any case hope the Cavz keep tanking

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Fedor took the Cavs to task this morning, calling their performance against the Pistons "gutless" and "shameful". My thought exactly.

Finally, Monday’s shameful loss to the tanking Detroit Pistons, who were without seven players, including leading scorer Jerami Grant, hours after coach Dwane Casey talked about using games late in the season for developmental opportunities as opposed to chasing wins.

How do you lose to a team that is missing three starters, including their best player, plus four reserves, and isn't even trying to win?

There was an egregious lack of respect for an undermanned opponent once again, an obvious level of immaturity, and a lack of focus and attention to detail. The gutless, undisciplined first quarter shoved the Cavs into a 23-point hole and forced them to fight back the rest of the night.

The Cavs were outworked throughout -- and it began shortly after the opening tip. Jarrett Allen couldn’t handle Isaiah Stewart’s physicality. The defensive effort was nonexistent as well. The Cavs didn’t start competing until late in the first quarter....[against] the inexperienced and short-handed Pistons, who started three rookies and a second-year player making his first career start.

Fedor finally offered some criticism of Bickerstaff for the first time this season if I'm not mistaken.

Beyond the rough first and third quarters that have been problematic all season, with some of that blame needing to fall on Bickerstaff, players spoke about not following the scouting report. Both Garland and Collin Sexton discussed Bey’s six triples. They also hinted at being unable to recognize the non-shooters quick enough on rotations. The Cavs aren’t talented enough to overcome those mental lapses. They can’t afford to be out-competed.

So they came out playing stupid, not following the scouting report which said Bey was the Pistons' best 3-point shooter, and let him get six wide open looks in the first four minutes. Stupid, complacent, and not ready to compete. Also - immature.

“I love the dudes in that locker room. I think their hearts and minds are in the right place. But we’ve got to grow up. It’s that simple.” - JBB

“It was the first quarter that did us in,” Bickerstaff said. “To me all that other stuff that happened afterwards is irrelevant. It’s a conversation about our approach, and a maturity level that we’ve yet to reach.

The players offered no excuses.

“We talked a good game, but at the end of the day, if you don’t back it up then it don’t mean anything,” Sexton said. “I understand all these games are a learning lesson, but at the end of the day we’re here for a reason. We can’t just continue to learn when we’re trying to win games for a chance to be able to play in the playoffs.

Yeah, enough with the "learning experiences". You don't need any brains whatsoever to know who the opponent's 3-point shooters are, who they aren't, and to be ready to compete from the jump. The Cavaliers basically handed the Pistons an 18-point advantage by failing to contest any of Bey's first six triples. Once they woke up from their stupor and started guarding him he was 0-for-5 the rest of the way.

Fedor summed it up nicely:

Can’t no-show when the schedulers and Detroit decision-makers try to gift you a needed win. Can’t overlook any opponent, no matter the record. Can’t throw away possessions in crunch time because of carelessness -- a common denominator in the last two losses. Can’t afford to be a few possessions late on substitutions -- pulling Jarrett Allen for the more effective Isaiah Hartenstein in the final minutes. Can’t go hero ball when execution is paramount. Can’t not play with spirit from the opening tip. Can’t pick and choose when to play hard.

 

[Dr. Claw]

It'll take a really good offseason and draft to fix what's wrong. I'll give the Cavs credit for coming back from a HORRENDOUS deficit. 3 point line defense has been horrendous all season (in early contests against Detroit, BLAKE GRIFFIN was doing better than Curry does from 3), rim protection is non existent. Anyone can just lay it up if they get there.

And offensively, we need something else besides Sexland to be effective. Sexton is actually being hindered in this lack of spacing. Somehow he still ends up with efficient 20-25ppg or more and even 4 or more assists, which is great for a scoring guard. Imagine a fully unlocked Sexton on offense where he eats off other teams being scared of what the rest of the team can do. Love is helping with that a little, but not enough.

Agreed with the Fedor comment that closed Wham's most recent post. The Cavs are in the a making of a moderately functional team but they aren't performing like one.

Better hope the NBA doesn't screw us come lottery time. I want at least one person who takes the heat off Sexland and allows the line ups to be more diverse.

 

[KilgoreTrout]

Fedor took the Cavs to task this morning, calling their performance against the Pistons "gutless" and "shameful". My thought exactly.

Finally, Monday’s shameful loss to the tanking Detroit Pistons, who were without seven players, including leading scorer Jerami Grant, hours after coach Dwane Casey talked about using games late in the season for developmental opportunities as opposed to chasing wins.

How do you lose to a team that is missing three starters, including their best player, plus four reserves, and isn't even trying to win?

There was an egregious lack of respect for an undermanned opponent once again, an obvious level of immaturity, and a lack of focus and attention to detail. The gutless, undisciplined first quarter shoved the Cavs into a 23-point hole and forced them to fight back the rest of the night.

The Cavs were outworked throughout -- and it began shortly after the opening tip. Jarrett Allen couldn’t handle Isaiah Stewart’s physicality. The defensive effort was nonexistent as well. The Cavs didn’t start competing until late in the first quarter....[against] the inexperienced and short-handed Pistons, who started three rookies and a second-year player making his first career start.

Fedor finally offered some criticism of Bickerstaff for the first time this season if I'm not mistaken.

Beyond the rough first and third quarters that have been problematic all season, with some of that blame needing to fall on Bickerstaff, players spoke about not following the scouting report. Both Garland and Collin Sexton discussed Bey’s six triples. They also hinted at being unable to recognize the non-shooters quick enough on rotations. The Cavs aren’t talented enough to overcome those mental lapses. They can’t afford to be out-competed.

So they came out playing stupid, not following the scouting report which said Bey was the Pistons' best 3-point shooter, and let him get six wide open looks in the first four minutes. Stupid, complacent, and not ready to compete. Also - immature.

“I love the dudes in that locker room. I think their hearts and minds are in the right place. But we’ve got to grow up. It’s that simple.” - JBB

“It was the first quarter that did us in,” Bickerstaff said. “To me all that other stuff that happened afterwards is irrelevant. It’s a conversation about our approach, and a maturity level that we’ve yet to reach.

The players offered no excuses.

“We talked a good game, but at the end of the day, if you don’t back it up then it don’t mean anything,” Sexton said. “I understand all these games are a learning lesson, but at the end of the day we’re here for a reason. We can’t just continue to learn when we’re trying to win games for a chance to be able to play in the playoffs.

Yeah, enough with the "learning experiences". You don't need any brains whatsoever to know who the opponent's 3-point shooters are, who they aren't, and to be ready to compete from the jump. The Cavaliers basically handed the Pistons an 18-point advantage by failing to contest any of Bey's first six triples. Once they woke up from their stupor and started guarding him he was 0-for-5 the rest of the way.

Fedor summed it up nicely:

Can’t no-show when the schedulers and Detroit decision-makers try to gift you a needed win. Can’t overlook any opponent, no matter the record. Can’t throw away possessions in crunch time because of carelessness -- a common denominator in the last two losses. Can’t afford to be a few possessions late on substitutions -- pulling Jarrett Allen for the more effective Isaiah Hartenstein in the final minutes. Can’t go hero ball when execution is paramount. Can’t not play with spirit from the opening tip. Can’t pick and choose when to play hard.

You can’t teach people to care. Show me a team full of guys who don’t play hard every night, and I will show you a team full of losers. There isn’t one “must keep” on the whole roster. And there is something about the Cavaliers franchise that just brings out the worst in everyone. Guys come here, fall apart, and/or have their worst seasons. Crowder. Drummond. KPJ. Now Allen. Trade one of Sexton or Garland, and let’s blow the team the fuck up.

 

[ansatsusha80]

Fedor took the Cavs to task this morning, calling their performance against the Pistons "gutless" and "shameful". My thought exactly.

Finally, Monday’s shameful loss to the tanking Detroit Pistons, who were without seven players, including leading scorer Jerami Grant, hours after coach Dwane Casey talked about using games late in the season for developmental opportunities as opposed to chasing wins.

How do you lose to a team that is missing three starters, including their best player, plus four reserves, and isn't even trying to win?

There was an egregious lack of respect for an undermanned opponent once again, an obvious level of immaturity, and a lack of focus and attention to detail. The gutless, undisciplined first quarter shoved the Cavs into a 23-point hole and forced them to fight back the rest of the night.

The Cavs were outworked throughout -- and it began shortly after the opening tip. Jarrett Allen couldn’t handle Isaiah Stewart’s physicality. The defensive effort was nonexistent as well. The Cavs didn’t start competing until late in the first quarter....[against] the inexperienced and short-handed Pistons, who started three rookies and a second-year player making his first career start.

Fedor finally offered some criticism of Bickerstaff for the first time this season if I'm not mistaken.

Beyond the rough first and third quarters that have been problematic all season, with some of that blame needing to fall on Bickerstaff, players spoke about not following the scouting report. Both Garland and Collin Sexton discussed Bey’s six triples. They also hinted at being unable to recognize the non-shooters quick enough on rotations. The Cavs aren’t talented enough to overcome those mental lapses. They can’t afford to be out-competed.

So they came out playing stupid, not following the scouting report which said Bey was the Pistons' best 3-point shooter, and let him get six wide open looks in the first four minutes. Stupid, complacent, and not ready to compete. Also - immature.

“I love the dudes in that locker room. I think their hearts and minds are in the right place. But we’ve got to grow up. It’s that simple.” - JBB

“It was the first quarter that did us in,” Bickerstaff said. “To me all that other stuff that happened afterwards is irrelevant. It’s a conversation about our approach, and a maturity level that we’ve yet to reach.

The players offered no excuses.

“We talked a good game, but at the end of the day, if you don’t back it up then it don’t mean anything,” Sexton said. “I understand all these games are a learning lesson, but at the end of the day we’re here for a reason. We can’t just continue to learn when we’re trying to win games for a chance to be able to play in the playoffs.

Yeah, enough with the "learning experiences". You don't need any brains whatsoever to know who the opponent's 3-point shooters are, who they aren't, and to be ready to compete from the jump. The Cavaliers basically handed the Pistons an 18-point advantage by failing to contest any of Bey's first six triples. Once they woke up from their stupor and started guarding him he was 0-for-5 the rest of the way.

Fedor summed it up nicely:

Can’t no-show when the schedulers and Detroit decision-makers try to gift you a needed win. Can’t overlook any opponent, no matter the record. Can’t throw away possessions in crunch time because of carelessness -- a common denominator in the last two losses. Can’t afford to be a few possessions late on substitutions -- pulling Jarrett Allen for the more effective Isaiah Hartenstein in the final minutes. Can’t go hero ball when execution is paramount. Can’t not play with spirit from the opening tip. Can’t pick and choose when to play hard.

And,you can't give your best player three to four touches in the fourth quarter.

 

[ryanf]

And,you can't give your best player three to four touches in the fourth quarter.

i'd be worried if sexton is a center, but he isn't. you can't give him 3-4 inches, but you can give him screens and switches for a favorable match up.