Game Thread | 2021-2022 | Game #19 | Suns @ Cavs | Nov. 24, 2021

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Dr. Claw

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My god, Cedi being what he is this season is a sight to see.
Hated all the missed layups and missed free throws.

The Cavs continue to surprise for the first halves of these games. But the bricks tend to come in the 2nd half at the worst time. The Suns had to play 4 active quarters against this team.

That's progress.

Also, fuck the refs. Completely jobbed Garland out of the game. Those calls that took away Cedi and Garland 3s were really pissing me off. And the FLOPPING on a legit screen getting called, meanwhile they're doing the Golden State with no call on the other end.

At least Kevin got a revenge flop.

FUCK THE REFS.

All this intentional jobbing better get the Cavs a top pick come draft time.
 

Coyote

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I just walked/jogged home from the game, I'm 75 percent drunk, 25 percent angry, 69 percent horned up, and a good amount of tired, but here goes:

We're significantly less talented than every team we've lost to during this losing streak. If you disagree, you're stupid.

Talent matters in this league. It matters a fucking lot. If end of bench players were as effective as stars, there'd be no such thing as max contracts. Or stars. And you generally can't just "scheme" farty end-of-bench turds into being better than stars. If you disagree, you're stupid.

And I'm pretty fucking sick (especially at this drunken moment) of the focus on the negatives when it comes to JBB in here.

Every time we play one of these top 5-10 down to the wire and I come in here and read about how that team just basically "coasted" and "toyed" with us for 3 quarters without a care in the world before cranking it up in the 4th without ever feeling in danger, I get so mad I just want to dance! More talented teams routinely absolutely beat the brakes off less talented teams right from the tip. I know because I've seen my Cavs get fucking red assed from the word go constantly over the years. That's not happening this year. No matter how many significant players are out, we're constantly battling. Not buzzword "battling," but for real gutting shit out. And that's a testament to JBB and it's not just handwaved away because of disagreements with how much he doesn't play your favorite shitty player who shouldn't be playing in the first place.

Speaking of players who shouldn't play, I just want to say that Dylan Windler fucking sucks. I've never seen a player get so much unearned goodwill in here. It's like when Luke Jackson would get a standing ovation in the arena just for... Standing. But Windler wasn't a high pick. He's like 38 years old. He's not an Uber athlete. He just looks like he'd be a smart savvy player with a good 3-ball because he's a lanky somewhat sinewy white dude who could do it in college but there are millions of him who were great in college but shit in the league and there will be millions more. It's not automatically JBB's fault for not "putting him in a position to succeed" as though it's a forgone conclusion he has it in him. Nor for Okoro. Sometimes players just aren't good. If every damn pick panned out, we'd be the exception not the rule.

Finally, fuck these refs. And these rims!! What the freaking crap!! Why were so many goddamn layups rimming out?? Why are the goddamn refs calling fouls on zero contact and blowing the whistle fucking instantly where they ANTICIPATED contact MIGHT happen?? Why can't I watch Crowder get mauled by fucking rabid possums after he clutches this face after ZERO contact then laughs about it as he walks to the FT line??

We have to pay fucking perfect against the best of the best to pull these games out at the end, particularly when the refs are CLEARLY favoring the other side. And we're RIGHT THERE! Couple rubber rim jobs in our favor, couple shitty calls don't get shoved up our asses... We win these. We're SO CLOSE. And it's not a mark against JBB that we're not there yet... It's a testament to him that we're that close every damn game against the best the league has to offer even without our best players.

I, for one, salute your drunk post, sir. Could have done without knowing how "horned up" you are, but the possum comment made up for it.
 

Rich

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People are amazed by me not being impressed by JBB.

I'm amazed by the amount of people who truly believe the league is currently rigged against the Cavs and KEEP SUPPORTING.

Think on that one.
 

LesGrossman

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People are amazed by me not being impressed by JBB.

I'm amazed by the amount of people who truly believe the league is currently rigged against the Cavs and KEEP SUPPORTING.

Think on that one.
Maybe its not so much a case of "rigged against the Cavs" as it is "rigged in favor of certain teams"? THere was an era where the Cavs were one of those teams getting all the calls.
 

Wham with the Right Hand

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If we had Sexton and Mobley last night we win this game and it's probably not close. OTOH, if the Suns didn't have their starting power forward and shooting guard (Crowder and Booker) - they lose. The only way the 14-3 Suns win this game is if they have all their guys and we are missing two starters, including our leading scorer.

Even then if the game had been reffed fairly we probably win. The game was tied with under two minutes to go.

Even then we still win if Garland doesn't go 0-for-6 from deep and Rubio doesn't miss 15 of his 20 shots.

We were so close to beating the best record in the league - it took a perfect storm of injuries, referees bias, and cold shooting from two key offensive players for the Suns to pull it out.

You have to give the Suns credit. They have very savvy veterans like Chris Paul, who manufactured two points by recognizing Garland's hand was on him and doing a legal rip through, and JaVale McGee, who saved three points by grabbing Allen well behind the play to stop a Cavs fast break.

I read an opinion recently by an NBA writer who argued the league should abolish those open court intentional fouls because they're ruining the action. Close game, a team steals the ball, has a 3-on-2, the fans are out of their seats and some lumbering center way behind the play grabs the other center and stops the play. Those intentional fouls should result in two free throws and the ball, plus a foul on the player.

Then we had to watch McGee horking it up on the bench.
 

Sir'Dom Pointer

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8 man rotation. Team fades in the 2nd half. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

We have a bad coach, guys.

It's not the refs.

We get tired in the 2nd half.

Garland falls off a cliff every second half.

It is both. Are you blind yo?
 

wnorman51

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8 man rotation. Team fades in the 2nd half. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

We have a bad coach, guys.

It's not the refs.

We get tired in the 2nd half.

Garland falls off a cliff every second half.
Garland played like 15 minutes in the first half. Are you saying JB should play our staring PG less than 15 minutes in the first half?

The team is playing harder than any team I have watched this season. You can tell that teams with far superior talent (at least as the talent is developed so far) who think they are coming in here and waltzing through, and end up fighting for their lives to eke out a win against the youngest team in the league.

We have clear personnel deficits at 2 positions now, and we are still in these games against the top teams without our most dynamic player.

JB’s game management needs work to be sure, but the culture he has built with these players, the buy-in, the defense, the no-quit attitude in an NBA where bottom teams quit all the time against top teams, and all of the rest that is beyond game management is elite.

JB should take his arrows for his weaknesses, but the reason we had a close game against the hottest team in the league without two of our top 4 players is because of all the other great work he’s done.

That has to go on the scale as well imho.
 

The Oi

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I just walked/jogged home from the game, I'm 75 percent drunk, 25 percent angry, 69 percent horned up, and a good amount of tired, but here goes:

We're significantly less talented than every team we've lost to during this losing streak. If you disagree, you're stupid.

Talent matters in this league. It matters a fucking lot. If end of bench players were as effective as stars, there'd be no such thing as max contracts. Or stars. And you generally can't just "scheme" farty end-of-bench turds into being better than stars. If you disagree, you're stupid.

And I'm pretty fucking sick (especially at this drunken moment) of the focus on the negatives when it comes to JBB in here.

Every time we play one of these top 5-10 down to the wire and I come in here and read about how that team just basically "coasted" and "toyed" with us for 3 quarters without a care in the world before cranking it up in the 4th without ever feeling in danger, I get so mad I just want to dance! More talented teams routinely absolutely beat the brakes off less talented teams right from the tip. I know because I've seen my Cavs get fucking red assed from the word go constantly over the years. That's not happening this year. No matter how many significant players are out, we're constantly battling. Not buzzword "battling," but for real gutting shit out. And that's a testament to JBB and it's not just handwaved away because of disagreements with how much he doesn't play your favorite shitty player who shouldn't be playing in the first place.

Speaking of players who shouldn't play, I just want to say that Dylan Windler fucking sucks. I've never seen a player get so much unearned goodwill in here. It's like when Luke Jackson would get a standing ovation in the arena just for... Standing. But Windler wasn't a high pick. He's like 38 years old. He's not an Uber athlete. He just looks like he'd be a smart savvy player with a good 3-ball because he's a lanky somewhat sinewy white dude who could do it in college but there are millions of him who were great in college but shit in the league and there will be millions more. It's not automatically JBB's fault for not "putting him in a position to succeed" as though it's a forgone conclusion he has it in him. Nor for Okoro. Sometimes players just aren't good. If every damn pick panned out, we'd be the exception not the rule.

Finally, fuck these refs. And these rims!! What the freaking crap!! Why were so many goddamn layups rimming out?? Why are the goddamn refs calling fouls on zero contact and blowing the whistle fucking instantly where they ANTICIPATED contact MIGHT happen?? Why can't I watch Crowder get mauled by fucking rabid possums after he clutches this face after ZERO contact then laughs about it as he walks to the FT line??

We have to pay fucking perfect against the best of the best to pull these games out at the end, particularly when the refs are CLEARLY favoring the other side. And we're RIGHT THERE! Couple rubber rim jobs in our favor, couple shitty calls don't get shoved up our asses... We win these. We're SO CLOSE. And it's not a mark against JBB that we're not there yet... It's a testament to him that we're that close every damn game against the best the league has to offer even without our best players.
This is the greatest post in site history.
 

Cavatt

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Garland played like 15 minutes in the first half. Are you saying JB should play our staring PG less than 15 minutes in the first half?

The team is playing harder than any team I have watched this season. You can tell that teams with far superior talent (at least as the talent is developed so far) who think they are coming in here and waltzing through, and end up fighting for their lives to eke out a win against the youngest team in the league.

We have clear personnel deficits at 2 positions now, and we are still in these games against the top teams without our most dynamic player.

JB’s game management needs work to be sure, but the culture he has built with these players, the buy-in, the defense, the no-quit attitude in an NBA where bottom teams quit all the time against top teams, and all of the rest that is beyond game management is elite.

JB should take his arrows for his weaknesses, but the reason we had a close game against the hottest team in the league without two of our top 4 players is because of all the other great work he’s done.

That has to go on the scale as well imho.

The question for me is which coach is available? Let Ty Lue go. Atkinson is out there but is he getting this team over the top?

Very skeptical we bring in a guy who is both as good at motivating and better at xo's.

JB is also one of the younger guys in the league. Story was offense wasn't his thing. This year ranked highly for assists and an average offense from among the worst last year.

I think it would go over pretty poorly in the locker room to fire the coach everyone loves and has turned this around.

Team did not Love Mark Jackson. He had the GS players polarized
 

Sir'Dom Pointer

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The question for me is which coach is available? Let Ty Lue go. Atkinson is out there but is he getting this team over the top?

Very skeptical we bring in a guy who is both as good at motivating and better at xo's.

JB is also one of the younger guys in the league. Story was offense wasn't his thing. This year ranked highly for assists and an average offense from among the worst last year.

I think it would go over pretty poorly in the locker room to fire the coach everyone loves and has turned this around.

Team did not Love Mark Jackson. He had the GS players polarized

Find genius , young offensive coordinator. Or a good head coach...and demote JB to assistant role. Either one is fine. But its more than lack of offensive brilliance.. it's also late game management and rotations.. so I dunno.

Cavs have a lot to sell now eith Mobley. They can find someone.
 

Rich

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It is both. Are you blind yo?

Losers blame the refs and winners win.

The issue with fans blaming the refs isn't that they miss the bad calls against their team, its they never, ever acknowlesge the good ones in their favor.

If you truly think the league is rigged against the Cavs, and you appear to, then what in the world are you doing watching and supporting?
 

Wham with the Right Hand

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Bickerstaff has turned Cedi's career around.


Inside each player’s locker is a card with three bullet points on it -- a way to clearly define roles.

Osman knows his. He’s embraced it. He’s thriving in it. - Fedor

"We’ve tried our best to simplify his role. He’s bought into the team and he’s trying to do what’s best for the group. He’s become a star in his role.” - JBB

Bickerstaff laid out, in detail, his expectations for Osman -- and everyone on the roster. - Fedor

“I feel comfortable right now,” Osman said. “From that game until now, I just feel confident. I’m playing my game. I know my role. I’m just trying to do what’s best for the team.”

On the season, Osman is shooting career-highs from the field (48.5%) and beyond the arc (43.6%). He’s got the team’s best long-range percentage.


AFAIC, the biggest part of a coach's job is to get the best out of each player; to put each player in a positon to be successful, to "simplify" their roles and not ask them to do more than they are capable of. It looks to me like Bickerstaff is doing just that, not only with Osman but with the whole team. Kevin Love is another great example.
 

Sir'Dom Pointer

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Losers blame the refs and winners win.

The issue with fans blaming the refs isn't that they miss the bad calls against their team, its they never, ever acknowlesge the good ones in their favor.

If you truly think the league is rigged against the Cavs, and you appear to, then what in the world are you doing watching and supporting?

Lmao...
It's not rigged against the Cavs like you keep bringing up. It's rigged towards certain teams and Vegas favorites depending on the match up. You just rig it against the teams that can get fucked without anyone batting an eye. And the cavs unfortunately, like some other teams with similar traits are a target for the refs and means for other contending teams to reach their destination.

Refs started the season rather strong allowing more contact and trying to establish a baseline to how everyone should be officiated, but they have reverted back or even worse, decided to ref teams differently based on certain preferences and motives. One team or player is reffed by the old rules and one by the new ones... you have no way of challenging anything as it is due to personal interpretation.

I'll say it Rich, you have to be super naive at your age to think a major corporation like NBA that is so involved with direct and 3rd party betting from all over the world to not be dirty and corrupt to a certain extent. Especially that it has proven true when betting was much less prevalent. Wake up Rich, you live in America. I shouldn't be the one telling you that.
 

BimboColesHair

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The question for me is which coach is available? Let Ty Lue go. Atkinson is out there but is he getting this team over the top?

Very skeptical we bring in a guy who is both as good at motivating and better at xo's.

JB is also one of the younger guys in the league. Story was offense wasn't his thing. This year ranked highly for assists and an average offense from among the worst last year.

I think it would go over pretty poorly in the locker room to fire the coach everyone loves and has turned this around.

This is 100% where I’m at.

The offense was making nice strides before injuries and Covid decimated the available players.

If you can guarantee that the new coach would have this young team fully bought in like they are right now on top of being a superior Xs and Os guy then I am all for it.

Problem is I don’t think that coach exists who is available, and if it does I don’t trust the Cavs of all teams to hire that coach.

Last thing any of us should want is planting the seeds of frustration in Mobley early on, and I think there is chance that happens if they move on from JBB too soon.
 
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