Game Thread | 2021-2022 | Game #19 | Suns @ Cavs | Nov. 24, 2021

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buzzdog

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It's frustrating top lose a game that was within reach no matter what the reason is.

The team is still more fun to watch than anything since 2016.
 

Rich

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Right because it's not any NBA refs have ever come out to say the NBA puts pressure on them to favor certain teams... No. Never.

And I'll bet that if I go back and check all of the game threads from '14-'18 I'll see game threads totally devoid of any bitching about the officiating when we had the face of the league on the team, right?

When we were the favorites?

I'm absolutely POSITIVE I won't find post after post in thread after thread of Dom btiching about how the refs were purposefully screwing the Cavs when LeBron was here.

Except I know I will because I remember. It was the same shit.

"League is rigged"

"LeBron doesn't get the same calls he got in miami"

"LeBron gets killed and gets no calls"


And all of the exact same shit every fan base of every team says in every game thread in every team forum on the internet.

I promise we aren't the single fanbase who has it right while all of the others have it wrong.

But w/e. Bitching about officiating the league fixing the games to screw your team has always been popular thing to say around here. You find almost zero disagreement.
 

macbdog

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It's a pretty proven theory that NBA refs intentionally screw every team in the league according to their fan bases. Thus it gets hard to really filter out when they are actually working to affect betting lines and when they arent. I've said it before, open a sports book where the Cavs are favored in every matchup and watch the officiating move their way. All it takes is enough refs betting on the Cavs to cover and you will see their 'luck' change.

Anyway, MLB is actively working to eliminate the human element of the strike zone and have it be truly uniform. The way to do it? Robot umpires. NBA has to come up with the same, some kind of way, to use technology to determine fouls. Whether it's through use of advanced sensors and digital video review or fully autonomous android refs that enforce rules like its the Squid Games, I'm not sure, but NBA has to work on a technological solution.
 

Rich

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It's a pretty proven theory that NBA refs intentionally screw every team in the league according to their fan bases. Thus it gets hard to really filter out when they are actually working to affect betting lines and when they arent. I've said it before, open a sports book where the Cavs are favored in every matchup and watch the officiating move their way. All it takes is enough refs betting on the Cavs to cover and you will see their 'luck' change.

Anyway, MLB is actively working to eliminate the human element of the strike zone and have it be truly uniform. The way to do it? Robot umpires. NBA has to come up with the same, some kind of way, to use technology to determine fouls. Whether it's through use of advanced sensors and digital video review or fully autonomous android refs that enforce rules like its the Squid Games, I'm not sure, but NBA has to work on a technological solution.

Thank you.

But these threads weren't full of people noting favorable callas when the Cavs were favorites, either.

They were the same.
 

wnorman51

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It isn’t always about the game being intentionally rigged, but the refs skew towards favorites. Hasn’t that always been the case?

We’ve lost several games this year where the refs were one of several deciding factors against us.

It is never 100% the refs, and it could always theoretically be overcome if you played elite ball all game and get some distance between you and the other team, but if you are playing close games, the favorite gets the calls.

That’s true even in games I don’t have a rooting interest in.
 

Rich

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It isn’t always about the game being intentionally rigged, but the refs skew towards favorites. Hasn’t that always been the case?

We’ve lost several games this year where the refs were one of several deciding factors against us.

It is never 100% the refs, and it could always theoretically be overcome if you played elite ball all game and get some distance between you and the other team, but if you are playing close games, the favorite gets the calls.

That’s true even in games I don’t have a rooting interest in.

They do generally favor the good teams.


But read the Orlando thread coming Saturday when the Cavs are favored.


It'll look the same.
 

daddywags

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They need to do something about the type of foul by McGee that wiped out Cedi's late 3. Maybe in the last 2 minutes of the game give the non-fouling team 2 shots and the ball? Wait, isn't that already the rule? The "hack-a-Shaq" rule? When did that McGee foul happen?
 

bob2the2nd

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They need to do something about the type of foul by McGee that wiped out Cedi's late 3. Maybe in the last 2 minutes of the game give the non-fouling team 2 shots and the ball? Wait, isn't that already the rule? The "hack-a-Shaq" rule? When did that McGee foul happen?
5 minutes left
 

Rich

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They need to do something about the type of foul by McGee that wiped out Cedi's late 3. Maybe in the last 2 minutes of the game give the non-fouling team 2 shots and the ball? Wait, isn't that already the rule? The "hack-a-Shaq" rule? When did that McGee foul happen?

I'd like them to simply play the advantage for 5 seconds.

If the Cavs don't score, call the foul then.
 

Dr. Claw

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Lmao...
It's not rigged against the Cavs like you keep bringing up. It's rigged towards certain teams and Vegas favorites depending on the match up. You just rig it against the teams that can get fucked without anyone batting an eye. And the cavs unfortunately, like some other teams with similar traits are a target for the refs and means for other contending teams to reach their destination.

Refs started the season rather strong allowing more contact and trying to establish a baseline to how everyone should be officiated, but they have reverted back or even worse, decided to ref teams differently based on certain preferences and motives. One team or player is reffed by the old rules and one by the new ones... you have no way of challenging anything as it is due to personal interpretation.
Thank you because I was coming back to say this. This is nowhere near unique to the Cavs. It's been status quo in the NBA for a minute (hence: "superstar calls"). Now because of numerous factors (inflating the record of popular teams that make a lot of money) entire teams are getting the shaft to further enforce an NBA underclass. Really sucks to see that happen to players on the wrong side of that equation (e.g. the refs taking away a hype dunk from Ant Edwards because the Timberwolves are on the other side of the fence). The bullshit with take fouls goes both ways as well.

Incentive for the Cavs to get better somehow, so that they can outscore this horse shit.
 

cavsfever

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It's a pretty proven theory that NBA refs intentionally screw every team in the league according to their fan bases. Thus it gets hard to really filter out when they are actually working to affect betting lines and when they arent. I've said it before, open a sports book where the Cavs are favored in every matchup and watch the officiating move their way. All it takes is enough refs betting on the Cavs to cover and you will see their 'luck' change.

Anyway, MLB is actively working to eliminate the human element of the strike zone and have it be truly uniform. The way to do it? Robot umpires. NBA has to come up with the same, some kind of way, to use technology to determine fouls. Whether it's through use of advanced sensors and digital video review or fully autonomous android refs that enforce rules like its the Squid Games, I'm not sure, but NBA has to work on a technological solution.

foul calls are complex and subjective in a way that ball and strike calls just aren’t. In fact I’d say that nba foul calls are the most complex and subjective refereeing calls in all of sports, even more than say holding or pass interference in football. There is no way they could be automated.
 

macbdog

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foul calls are complex and subjective in a way that ball and strike calls just aren’t. In fact I’d say that nba foul calls are the most complex and subjective refereeing calls in all of sports, even more than say holding or pass interference in football. There is no way they could be automated.
I'm not saying it is easy but it can be done. We have cars that drive themselves, computers trade stocks all day long, and China uses tech to monitor every minute of their citizens lives- they can make a system to aid/replace the refs. It would just cost money, and as we know, pro sports owners are not in the business of spending their own money when they don't have to. It's going to take a wildly embarrassing ref betting scandal, and actual monetary losses from fans not watching, to cause it though.
 

Benway

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I'm not saying it is easy but it can be done. We have cars that drive themselves, computers trade stocks all day long, and China uses tech to monitor every minute of their citizens lives- they can make a system to aid/replace the refs. It would just cost money, and as we know, pro sports owners are not in the business of spending their own money when they don't have to. It's going to take a wildly embarrassing ref betting scandal, and actual monetary losses from fans not watching, to cause it though.
All they need to do is load up the unis with NFC's, apply transmitters to the fingernails, et voilá!
 

cavsfever

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I'm not saying it is easy but it can be done. We have cars that drive themselves, computers trade stocks all day long, and China uses tech to monitor every minute of their citizens lives- they can make a system to aid/replace the refs. It would just cost money, and as we know, pro sports owners are not in the business of spending their own money when they don't have to. It's going to take a wildly embarrassing ref betting scandal, and actual monetary losses from fans not watching, to cause it though.

I have a bit of experience in AI and I think it’s impossible to automate the calling of fouls in the NBA. Just too much of a judgement call. You could have automated determination of when players have physical contact but physical contact is routine and constant in NBA games, only a small fraction of contact is a foul. Any system would be a form of computer-assisted video review which would kill the flow of the game
 

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