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Game Thread | 2021-2022 Season | Game #15 | Celtics @ Cavs | Nov. 15

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The things rchfld is worried about is exactly what I'm worried about .

The offensive system right now is basically "Here, Ricky, figure something out for us" and we're currently winning because Ricky right now is having the best stretch of NBA ball of his life.

It's a lot of bailout 3s by Cedi, too.

And then you look at his substitution patterns and you can see his first and last concern is defense w/ little to no care about what happens on offense.


I think it's ok to be pissed off Windler isn't seeing the court more than Denzel Valentine and Lamar Stevens.

Maybe JBB is right and Windler just doesn't have it. Or maybe JBB doesn't place nearly enough emphasis on offensive production and ability...
 
BimboColesHair said:
Doesn't matter what they do or how nice their system looks on the screen, if Sexton, Love, Markk all keep shooting well below their career averages from 3 when they come back this team isn't going to run teams off the floor offensively.
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And I'm of the belief that the reason guys are shooting worse than they should be is they aren't being put into positions to succeed utilizing their skill sets. Expecting guys to become stationary 3 point shooters isn't using your players properly. Playing guys that are 0's on offense has a way of stagnating offensive production too. And JBB seems adamant about having at least one of those types of players on the floor at all times.

*Eat that ass* Forgot to address the question of whether JBB is a finished product as a coach. At this point, I'm willing to argue that yes, he is who he is. I'm seeing the same things from his as a coach in year 2/3 here as I did in his interim stints in Memphis and Houston.
 
Rich said:
The things rchfld is worried about is exactly what I'm worried about .

The offensive system right now is basically "Here, Ricky, figure something out for us" and we're currently winning because Ricky right now is having the best stretch of NBA ball of his life.

It's a lot of bailout 3s by Cedi, too.

And then you look at his substitution patterns and you can see his first and last concern is defense w/ little to no care about what happens on offense.


I think it's ok to be pissed off Windler isn't seeing the court more than Denzel Valentine and Lamar Stevens.

Maybe JBB is right and Windler just doesn't have it. Or maybe JBB doesn't place nearly enough emphasis on offensive production and ability...
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It's only been "Ricky, carry more offensive weight" since the Knicks game though...I can point to an exact incident that same game that coincides with that need too.

It was not that way the first 11 games of the season though.

And the Windler stuff I agree, it's frustrating. He's a guy that can shoot you into any game, is one of the few guys on roster shooting well this season from 3, and he tends to play good team defense.

Why pick up his option if you aren't going to play him. Maybe he is on some restriction we as fans don't know about, who knows.
 
Man Called X said:
And I'm of the belief that the reason guys are shooting worse than they should be is they aren't being put into positions to succeed utilizing their skill sets. Expecting guys to become stationary 3 point shooters isn't using your players properly. Playing guys that are 0's on offense has a way of stagnating offensive production too. And JBB seems adamant about having at least one of those types of players on the floor at all times.
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Those 3 aren't just being used as "stationary shooters" though.

K Love was still getting his elbow post up touches and using that as a rub screen for Rubio or Garland to initiate their sets. Markk talked with the media about how JBB is asking him to do more than be a stationary shooter, like he was asked to do in Chicago, and we've seen him slash and post up a ton. Sexton is still Sexton, he is a 3 level scorer and is still being allowed to do that.

Those guys aren't hitting wide open looks from 3 generated within the offense. That is the only point I am trying to make. Go back and watch the first 10 games and count the amount of wide open looks from 3 those 3 were able to get within the flow of the offense and how few they hit. They need to hit those, and if career averages are any indicator, they will.
 
BimboColesHair said:
I'm hungry for some worms this morning, Rch.

And likewise, most excited I've been about Cavs basketball at Thanksgiving since 2017. Makes this place fun.
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You and me both my brotha. We've been holding our collective breaths for about 4 years waiting for what we are seeing this early going. Going to be a fun formative foundational year with a lot of spirited debates.

Looking forward to this playing out!
 
RchfldCavRaised said:
So much lends itself to bad coaching on the offensive end of the floor. Okoro had a whole summer to address and develop his weaknesses and he came back even worse at offense and bulked up like we asked him to be even more defensively versatile. Mobley has actually had a bad 2-3 games where he's pressing on the offensive end, and instead of making the game easier for him last night by putting him in position to use his length/speed against Horford and the small Celtics, we asked him to post up a guy 50 pounds and 14 experienced playoff years his senior. Rotational over reliance on defensive "effort" guys (Stevens/Valentine) instead of taking offensive talent who helps balance the floor and is smart as a 4th/5th starter (Windler), and coaching him up to be whatever you dont think he is on defense.

I don't want to sit through another era of coaching malpractice with a coach who only prioritizes one end of the floor because he can't see the game but through a defensive effort lens.

This Nets and Warriors two game stretch could be a MAJOR crossroads for the way this team develops. Please stop this overreliance on Rubio being the entire offense and put priority on BOTH ends of the floor
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The same concerns when I saw some of those lineups. Especially considering how good Garland (and lowkey, Cedi) are becoming on offense, the other side of the ball definitely needs some attention and fast.

There's been a lot of growth on that end but Rubio has a lot to do with that. With players like Markannen in the lineup you gotta get more creative.
 
My takeaway is that this is a team that desperately needs the reinforcements to show up. Allen and Mobley have looked pretty gassed over the last two or three games. Rubio is playing too many minutes and it's showing up on the defensive side of the court.

Also, Bickerstaff needs to do a better job of balancing offense/defense with his deeper rotations. Maybe you can get away with Rubio, Garland, and Valentine on the floor at the same time IF both Mobley and Allen are out there with them. But if Valentine is on Tatum, you're not getting stops.

Hopefully, getting back Lauri and Love will help some. Stevens should be back sooner rather than later. But as the season wears on, the Cavs might have to take an L on a Sexton trade just to bring in a secondary ball handler so they can start dialing back Rubio's minutes. They're not sustainable at his age.

Finally, can the Cavs have a couple of go-to responses in the que when other teams trap or double Garland? I've already had a series of mini-strokes in response to the Cavs having zero counters to Love getting doubled for almost his entire time on the roster. This isn't advanced calculus stuff. When opponents are routinely doubling the same guys, someone is unguarded and you need to have counters that are almost automatic in those circumstances.
 
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From Basketball-reference.com:

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Regarding the four factors:

eFG% - we're doing better than our opponents. Offensively 51.9% ranks 19th, but our defensive % of .502 is 6 - that's very good, especially for a young team just getting to know each other. Fair to say our defensive focus has yielded some results; also fair to say we need to shoot better.

TOV% - Defensively were 11th - again, very good for such a young team. We're getting that defensive pressure. The offensive rate though ranks 28th and is IMHO job #1 to fix. Again, we're young with a lot of new players so as the season goes on we should get better.

ORB% - 11th - surprisingly good. We're seeing the guards get some - Sexton had some putbacks before he was hurt. Defensive rebounding is pretty bad though - 28th. SOME of this is due to the aggressive defense and help from Mobley and Allen which puts us out of position for DRB, but our three seven footers are mobile skinny-asses who do get outmuscled.

FT/FGA: THIS is really nice! 11th on offense - we're getting to the line because we're aggressive. The defensive percentage - 2nd - is just remarkable given how well we defend as evidenced by our 6 league rank on defensive eFG% (noted above). Normally more aggressive defense means you foul a lot - especially if you're young / inexperienced, but our guys are moving their feet, staying in front of defenders, switching well and altering shots (esp Mobley and Allen).

We can harp on what we're doing wrong but some of these league rankings are amazingly good for a young team.
 
Firing the coach right now will get mutiny from the players. There isn't a single player on that team that thinks they lost that game due to coaching.
 
Cavatt said:
Firing the coach right now will get mutiny from the players. There isn't a single player on that team that thinks they lost that game due to coaching.
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No, obviously you can't fire him right now.
 
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