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Game Thread | 2021-2022 Season | Game #69 | Sixers @ Cavs | March 16, 2022 | 7:00 p.m.

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You have Mobley as your C so you want to emphasise spacing and ball movement, yet you start both Okoro and Stevens. So what the heck do you gain? That's how this coach operates.

He should have started LeVert. That much is obvious. It's disgusting. Or go with Moses Brown to defend Embiid, not use him when he is off the floor.
 
Guys I'll be honest at this point start rooting for the 8th seed.

It's be in our interest for the Nets to pass us and up 7.
In the play in games:

7 has a home game vs 8.
The winner of 7-8 is the 7th seed.


9 has a home game vs 10.
The loser of 9-10 is eliminated.


The loser of 7-8 has a home game vs the winner of 9-10.
The winner of this game is the 8th seed.
 
Why root to fail, we need to keep our butts at 6th.
Nets are 3.5 games back with only 4-5 wins left on schedule.
We just need Toronto to lose some games.

If the Nets pass us and move to 7th we play at Brooklyn in a play in game meaning Kyrie can't play. If we stay at 7 and the Nets are at 8 the game is in Cleveland meaning Kyrie plays. We're not winning that game at home.
 
Thinking about last night's game, I was very impressed with the Cavs' depth. As Fedor pointed out the Cavs' starters were -32 to the Sixers' starters, but the Cavs' bench was +28.

The Cavs did not have Allen, Wade or Rondo, so Stevens started and Goodwin came off the bench. LeVert doesn't have his conditioning back yet after missing nine games and was on a 25-minute limit.

The Sixers had their entire rotation available. The Cavs were missing Allen, Sexton, Wade, and Rondo, yet had a lead in the 4th quarter and were still in it right up to the final minute.

The Sixers had four players score 19-35 points. Nobody else got more than 6.

I can't wait until next season when we get to see the Cavs' team that played last night plus Allen, Sexton, and Wade, not to mention having a training camp to incorporate these guys and allow JBB to set up a rotation and substitution patterns.
 
If the Nets pass us and move to 7th we play at Brooklyn in a play in game meaning Kyrie can't play. If we stay at 7 and the Nets are at 8 the game is in Cleveland meaning Kyrie plays. We're not winning that game at home.
Do we want to win Brooklyn for 7th seed anyway? I would rather take Miami than Bucks in the playoffs. Bucks have harder schedule vs Miami.
 
Do we want to win Brooklyn for 7th seed anyway? I would rather take Miami than Bucks in the playoffs. Bucks have harder schedule vs Miami.

If we lose to Brooklyn we'll have to win vs the Hornets or Hawks.
 
This team simply does not value 3pt field goals enough. On either side of the ball.

From day one, the common denominator of our offensive and defensive "identities" has been the proximity of the rim. It's easy to see why – Mobley and Allen were swatting shots right out the gate, and on offense, the Garland/Allen PnR dunks were our bread and butter. On a superficial level, everything revolved around getting to the rim or preventing people from scoring there. For a while, it seemed to be enough.

Unfortunately, as much as the Cavs probably liked to think they had succcesfully turned back the clock, you can't beat the math. Three points is more than two. In the 2nd half of the season, we've kept bringing a knife to a gunfight. When teams move the ball and score on open 3pt looks... we respond with post-ups or pick and rolls. That does not work in the long run.

Before you say "But we don't have the shooters!", that is not true. What IS true is that we have too many non-shooters, but we do have enough guys who can make shots to run an intelligent offense aimed at creating easier scoring opportunities from the perimeter. Everyone in the NBA has slumps, and everyone misses open shots now and then, but the difference is that we make no consistent effort to create those shots.

On defense, we keep helping off shooters (on many teams, this pretty much means anyone standing on the perimeter), which is just insane in this age of the NBA. I understand fans hate to see guys getting layups – particularly as we used to have an identity as a team that swats your shit – but they should be absolutely enraged to see us giving up 3's. When teams quickly move the ball, we defend like we're expecting them to drive to the basket at any moment. In reality, they're usually searching for the open outside shooter.

Fixing this is not easy. With the way the offense has been turned over to Garland, running actions for 3pt looks or moving the ball around does not come naturally. Darius is a ball dominant guy who wants to be the one who makes the most important decision of the possession, be it a shot or an assist. There's just not enough trust there. If JBB does not install any kind of a system or even a principle, it's not going to get fixed on its own.

On defense, when you guard teams that move the ball along the perimeter to find shooters, you need to keep in mind what you're trying to prevent, and you also can't have any real weak links. Everyone must be able and willing to close out. A huge problem is that while Love is the best shooter of the team, he's by far the worst perimeter defender. That's just an unfortunate combination for a team like this. It's not always Kevin's guy who takes/makes the shot, but Love is often the one who starts the domino effect when he can't move.

This is a VERY good and well thought out post dissecting this from a 30,000 foot, tactical/coaching philosophical level.
 
This team simply does not value 3pt field goals enough. On either side of the ball.

From day one, the common denominator of our offensive and defensive "identities" has been the proximity of the rim. It's easy to see why – Mobley and Allen were swatting shots right out the gate, and on offense, the Garland/Allen PnR dunks were our bread and butter. On a superficial level, everything revolved around getting to the rim or preventing people from scoring there. For a while, it seemed to be enough.

Unfortunately, as much as the Cavs probably liked to think they had succcesfully turned back the clock, you can't beat the math. Three points is more than two. In the 2nd half of the season, we've kept bringing a knife to a gunfight. When teams move the ball and score on open 3pt looks... we respond with post-ups or pick and rolls. That does not work in the long run.

Before you say "But we don't have the shooters!", that is not true. What IS true is that we have too many non-shooters, but we do have enough guys who can make shots to run an intelligent offense aimed at creating easier scoring opportunities from the perimeter. Everyone in the NBA has slumps, and everyone misses open shots now and then, but the difference is that we make no consistent effort to create those shots.

On defense, we keep helping off shooters (on many teams, this pretty much means anyone standing on the perimeter), which is just insane in this age of the NBA. I understand fans hate to see guys getting layups – particularly as we used to have an identity as a team that swats your shit – but they should be absolutely enraged to see us giving up 3's. When teams quickly move the ball, we defend like we're expecting them to drive to the basket at any moment. In reality, they're usually searching for the open outside shooter.

Fixing this is not easy. With the way the offense has been turned over to Garland, running actions for 3pt looks or moving the ball around does not come naturally. Darius is a ball dominant guy who wants to be the one who makes the most important decision of the possession, be it a shot or an assist. There's just not enough trust there. If JBB does not install any kind of a system or even a principle, it's not going to get fixed on its own.

On defense, when you guard teams that move the ball along the perimeter to find shooters, you need to keep in mind what you're trying to prevent, and you also can't have any real weak links. Everyone must be able and willing to close out. A huge problem is that while Love is the best shooter of the team, he's by far the worst perimeter defender. That's just an unfortunate combination for a team like this. It's not always Kevin's guy who takes/makes the shot, but Love is often the one who starts the domino effect when he can't move.
I have an issue here. It is that the guys are so young, they still aren't just launching 3s like other teams do. Too often dribbling in to take a 2 when they need a 3. Caris did it 3 times in crunch time and he missed his turnaround to cut it to 1.

Love does and Lauri does. Garland has in games where he is very successful and he passed a few up last night. Windler drove at one point and turned it over. JB said "Shoot the damn ball".

Okoro took his 3s last night and made all but the last one, which could have been the difference. They missed several wide open shots last night in crunch time and before.
Point is that the coaching staff is not de-prioritizing 3s. Some of the younger guys and Caris are passing them up to drive into a crowded paint and that is not good.

As far as defending the 3pt line. Guys are in their deep season 3pt shooting which means everyone is tuned up and ready to shoot. Cavs were getting away with help in the post earlier in the season because they were recovering faster when they were fresher. Now they are more tired and I have seen especially Mobley and Okoro are not getting back to 3 as fast. Garland needs to be stunting instead of actually helping because he can't recover fast enough.

Also, Mobley need more help than Allen does at Center, so it is a confluence of factors, but the solutions in my opinion are these guys need to get older, stronger and better conditioned. They also need to help less and knowing the personnel. That changes as you get more reps in the league. Last year Okoro was biting on all the vet tricks, but now he has a much better understanding of guys skillsets and you just don't see it anymore. Evan is getting that experience right now.

For me, the injuries have taken their toll. Guys probably played too hard in the beginning of the season and may not have paced themselves properly, and teams are simply turning it on, and the things that were working in the beginning of the season aren't.

These are the pitfalls of a young team, including turnovers, that they were able to avoid most of the year, but are now rearing their head while the team is dealing with injuries.

This game was lost in the first 8 min I guess. They outplayed the 6ers the rest of the way as Wham said. Cavs played a really good game and they missed some shots and Embiid and Harden scored ljust like last game. I guess people are really surprised one of the leading MVP candidates and a multiple MVP guy beat Darius and the ROY. It's absurd the expectations on this team at this point. I don't like the losing either, but they played a fantastic game last night, JB coached them very well and found a lot of things that worked, but they were unable to overcome the slow start when the sixers came out like it was a playoff game.

AND Maxey was amazing and I think he really showed the value of a speedy guy who can hit shots like Sexton and how he can fit in on a good team as a release valve. Every fucking shot he hit was basically a desperation "please do something" when Embiid and Harden were stymied. Yeah he was unguarded, but he nailed every single "have to have it" bucket
 
This is a VERY good and well thought out post dissecting this from a 30,000 foot, tactical/coaching philosophical level.
Agreed. Heat Check may make a lot of Devil's advocate type posts that cause us to scratch our heads at times, but he also has more well thought out posts with strategic insight, too.
 
That final game against Toronto is going to be huge.
 
This team simply does not value 3pt field goals enough. On either side of the ball.

From day one, the common denominator of our offensive and defensive "identities" has been the proximity of the rim. It's easy to see why – Mobley and Allen were swatting shots right out the gate, and on offense, the Garland/Allen PnR dunks were our bread and butter. On a superficial level, everything revolved around getting to the rim or preventing people from scoring there. For a while, it seemed to be enough.

Unfortunately, as much as the Cavs probably liked to think they had succcesfully turned back the clock, you can't beat the math. Three points is more than two. In the 2nd half of the season, we've kept bringing a knife to a gunfight. When teams move the ball and score on open 3pt looks... we respond with post-ups or pick and rolls. That does not work in the long run.

Before you say "But we don't have the shooters!", that is not true. What IS true is that we have too many non-shooters, but we do have enough guys who can make shots to run an intelligent offense aimed at creating easier scoring opportunities from the perimeter. Everyone in the NBA has slumps, and everyone misses open shots now and then, but the difference is that we make no consistent effort to create those shots.

On defense, we keep helping off shooters (on many teams, this pretty much means anyone standing on the perimeter), which is just insane in this age of the NBA. I understand fans hate to see guys getting layups – particularly as we used to have an identity as a team that swats your shit – but they should be absolutely enraged to see us giving up 3's. When teams quickly move the ball, we defend like we're expecting them to drive to the basket at any moment. In reality, they're usually searching for the open outside shooter.

Fixing this is not easy. With the way the offense has been turned over to Garland, running actions for 3pt looks or moving the ball around does not come naturally. Darius is a ball dominant guy who wants to be the one who makes the most important decision of the possession, be it a shot or an assist. There's just not enough trust there. If JBB does not install any kind of a system or even a principle, it's not going to get fixed on its own.

On defense, when you guard teams that move the ball along the perimeter to find shooters, you need to keep in mind what you're trying to prevent, and you also can't have any real weak links. Everyone must be able and willing to close out. A huge problem is that while Love is the best shooter of the team, he's by far the worst perimeter defender. That's just an unfortunate combination for a team like this. It's not always Kevin's guy who takes/makes the shot, but Love is often the one who starts the domino effect when he can't move.
I would rather see Embiid and Harden run up to the hoop uncontested all night than see Niang hit even one 3 pointer.
That pisses me off. Sometimes you gotta just let the greats get theirs. But don't let some of these roody-poos get the easiest looks ever.

The way Okoro doesn't look like some complete ass shooting the ball (think: Michael Kidd-Gilchrist) and his make rate (he's been 6/10 from 3 in recent contests) tells me that if they tried more to get it to him or at least considered him as part of that decision tree in setting up looks, some of his woes would be less known.

But making the threes isn't the main thing. It's the defense. I need them to stop helping off shooters. The one thing I wish JBB would just yell at them every game. If there's someone left open on the corners, let them get the 2.
 
This team simply does not value 3pt field goals enough. On either side of the ball.

From day one, the common denominator of our offensive and defensive "identities" has been the proximity of the rim. It's easy to see why – Mobley and Allen were swatting shots right out the gate, and on offense, the Garland/Allen PnR dunks were our bread and butter. On a superficial level, everything revolved around getting to the rim or preventing people from scoring there. For a while, it seemed to be enough.

Unfortunately, as much as the Cavs probably liked to think they had succcesfully turned back the clock, you can't beat the math. Three points is more than two. In the 2nd half of the season, we've kept bringing a knife to a gunfight. When teams move the ball and score on open 3pt looks... we respond with post-ups or pick and rolls. That does not work in the long run.

Before you say "But we don't have the shooters!", that is not true. What IS true is that we have too many non-shooters, but we do have enough guys who can make shots to run an intelligent offense aimed at creating easier scoring opportunities from the perimeter. Everyone in the NBA has slumps, and everyone misses open shots now and then, but the difference is that we make no consistent effort to create those shots.

On defense, we keep helping off shooters (on many teams, this pretty much means anyone standing on the perimeter), which is just insane in this age of the NBA. I understand fans hate to see guys getting layups – particularly as we used to have an identity as a team that swats your shit – but they should be absolutely enraged to see us giving up 3's. When teams quickly move the ball, we defend like we're expecting them to drive to the basket at any moment. In reality, they're usually searching for the open outside shooter.

Fixing this is not easy. With the way the offense has been turned over to Garland, running actions for 3pt looks or moving the ball around does not come naturally. Darius is a ball dominant guy who wants to be the one who makes the most important decision of the possession, be it a shot or an assist. There's just not enough trust there. If JBB does not install any kind of a system or even a principle, it's not going to get fixed on its own.

On defense, when you guard teams that move the ball along the perimeter to find shooters, you need to keep in mind what you're trying to prevent, and you also can't have any real weak links. Everyone must be able and willing to close out. A huge problem is that while Love is the best shooter of the team, he's by far the worst perimeter defender. That's just an unfortunate combination for a team like this. It's not always Kevin's guy who takes/makes the shot, but Love is often the one who starts the domino effect when he can't move.
Good post. Regarding Love, doing perimeter defending well is damn hard work – footwork, moving hands, chasing, stopping, turning gets you exhausted pretty fast - even young, smaller players, not to mention a 33-year-old big man like Love. Regardless, all in all, his contribution to the Cavs this season has been vital and he’s been a delight to watch, not only when he’s on the court but also how he cheers on from the sidelines.
 
This team simply does not value 3pt field goals enough. On either side of the ball.

From day one, the common denominator of our offensive and defensive "identities" has been the proximity of the rim. It's easy to see why – Mobley and Allen were swatting shots right out the gate, and on offense, the Garland/Allen PnR dunks were our bread and butter. On a superficial level, everything revolved around getting to the rim or preventing people from scoring there. For a while, it seemed to be enough.

Unfortunately, as much as the Cavs probably liked to think they had succcesfully turned back the clock, you can't beat the math. Three points is more than two. In the 2nd half of the season, we've kept bringing a knife to a gunfight. When teams move the ball and score on open 3pt looks... we respond with post-ups or pick and rolls. That does not work in the long run.

Before you say "But we don't have the shooters!", that is not true. What IS true is that we have too many non-shooters, but we do have enough guys who can make shots to run an intelligent offense aimed at creating easier scoring opportunities from the perimeter. Everyone in the NBA has slumps, and everyone misses open shots now and then, but the difference is that we make no consistent effort to create those shots.

On defense, we keep helping off shooters (on many teams, this pretty much means anyone standing on the perimeter), which is just insane in this age of the NBA. I understand fans hate to see guys getting layups – particularly as we used to have an identity as a team that swats your shit – but they should be absolutely enraged to see us giving up 3's. When teams quickly move the ball, we defend like we're expecting them to drive to the basket at any moment. In reality, they're usually searching for the open outside shooter.

Fixing this is not easy. With the way the offense has been turned over to Garland, running actions for 3pt looks or moving the ball around does not come naturally. Darius is a ball dominant guy who wants to be the one who makes the most important decision of the possession, be it a shot or an assist. There's just not enough trust there. If JBB does not install any kind of a system or even a principle, it's not going to get fixed on its own.

On defense, when you guard teams that move the ball along the perimeter to find shooters, you need to keep in mind what you're trying to prevent, and you also can't have any real weak links. Everyone must be able and willing to close out. A huge problem is that while Love is the best shooter of the team, he's by far the worst perimeter defender. That's just an unfortunate combination for a team like this. It's not always Kevin's guy who takes/makes the shot, but Love is often the one who starts the domino effect when he can't move.
Really good analysis. I do want to say, surrendering 3s can be a part of your scheme depending on where you are giving those up. For example, Milwaukee and Utahs's schemes concedes a ton of above the break 3s because they focus on shutting down the corners and the paint. It is a pretty reasonable gamble since most players are much better corner shooters than above the break. It is also why you sometimes see guards with deep range or who are just really hot go off against those teams.

The next evolution of our team (which won't happen this year) will be to get those secondary rotations down and shut off the second and third swing passes. All the teams that do a good job of this (Bos, Mil, Uta) have had a strong defensive core that has been together for a few years. Our guys just haven't played together long enough to do this sort of defense on a string reliably yet.

Now for the offense....I got nothin
 
This team simply does not value 3pt field goals enough. On either side of the ball.

From day one, the common denominator of our offensive and defensive "identities" has been the proximity of the rim. It's easy to see why – Mobley and Allen were swatting shots right out the gate, and on offense, the Garland/Allen PnR dunks were our bread and butter. On a superficial level, everything revolved around getting to the rim or preventing people from scoring there. For a while, it seemed to be enough.

Unfortunately, as much as the Cavs probably liked to think they had succcesfully turned back the clock, you can't beat the math. Three points is more than two. In the 2nd half of the season, we've kept bringing a knife to a gunfight. When teams move the ball and score on open 3pt looks... we respond with post-ups or pick and rolls. That does not work in the long run.

Before you say "But we don't have the shooters!", that is not true. What IS true is that we have too many non-shooters, but we do have enough guys who can make shots to run an intelligent offense aimed at creating easier scoring opportunities from the perimeter. Everyone in the NBA has slumps, and everyone misses open shots now and then, but the difference is that we make no consistent effort to create those shots.

On defense, we keep helping off shooters (on many teams, this pretty much means anyone standing on the perimeter), which is just insane in this age of the NBA. I understand fans hate to see guys getting layups – particularly as we used to have an identity as a team that swats your shit – but they should be absolutely enraged to see us giving up 3's. When teams quickly move the ball, we defend like we're expecting them to drive to the basket at any moment. In reality, they're usually searching for the open outside shooter.

Fixing this is not easy. With the way the offense has been turned over to Garland, running actions for 3pt looks or moving the ball around does not come naturally. Darius is a ball dominant guy who wants to be the one who makes the most important decision of the possession, be it a shot or an assist. There's just not enough trust there. If JBB does not install any kind of a system or even a principle, it's not going to get fixed on its own.

On defense, when you guard teams that move the ball along the perimeter to find shooters, you need to keep in mind what you're trying to prevent, and you also can't have any real weak links. Everyone must be able and willing to close out. A huge problem is that while Love is the best shooter of the team, he's by far the worst perimeter defender. That's just an unfortunate combination for a team like this. It's not always Kevin's guy who takes/makes the shot, but Love is often the one who starts the domino effect when he can't move.

Good post overall, and as a snapshot of where we're at now, I agree with a lot of it. But as @Cavatt and @foucault87 pointed out, I think on D it's a matter of attrition and changed scheme over time. I don't think it's fair to say we haven't valued defending the 3 all season. [Edit---To be clear, you didn't exactly say that, it was vague.] We were top 5 or so in that department approximately though December. It really fell off when Rubio went down. For whatever reason--personnel changes, tired legs, scheme, or all three--we've gone to a mix of man and zone that, exactly like you said, requires defenders to help off of the shooters too much. Okoro and LeVert and Stevens are the only guys capable of recovering, but I think they're better served sticking to their man.
 
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