Game Thread | 2021-2022 Season | Game #72 | Lakers @ Cavs | March 21, 2022 | 7:00 p.m.

[cavsfever]

Yep. The PLAYERS didn’t execute HIS game plan.

To my eye. They executed his game plan just fine. They overhelped and one of the best passers of all time carved them up.

Bickerstaff is obsessed with help defense. He is stuck on the idea that even if we double, as long as the next 3 guys make the right rotation…we’ll be fine.

Well, the fact of the matter is LeBron has been slicing up even the best “on a string” defenses in the world for almost 2 full decades now.

The best game plan against LeBron is what Popovich subscribes to:

You guard LeBron straight up. You go under or switch every screen. You stay at home, TIGHT on all shooters and you shut the water off on baseline backdoor screens. Nothing easy or open for anyone else. LeBron has come a long way as a consistent shooter so this is a little more painful than it was in 2011 but still is the best way to do. He still scored 40 but had a triple double to go along with it and his teammates were loving it and useful for once.

The Lakers proved they can’t defend for shit. We scored even with ur bench not producing, out shooting being off and foul trouble for LeVert and Mobley (fuck the refs for that btw..we probably win without that constant foul trouble that the refs were eager to gift to Bron)

They also scored off of turnovers almost every time. The Cavs transition defense was insanely porous and the turnovers were often unforced errors. Yet the game was easily winnable until Bickerstaff just absolutely shit the bed when we were up 1 point and he came out with a stupid as lineup that the Lakers just scored on and beat like a drum. Mobley or Moses Brown in there would have potentially stopped almost every bucket they got in that stretch. I would have even considered putting them in together for a couple minutes. Garland was in his bag and would have gotten us offense but we just needed two minutes of stops and rebounding.

If LeBron scores 65 points on mostly jumpers and you lose; you tip your cap and your lack offense is probably to blame.

But instead JBB was obsessed with trying to throw these weird delayed doubles at LeBron after he already got his shoulder past the initial defender…he literally ate us alive. Wide open dunks and layups for Johnson and Gabriel. Wide open threes for Johnson with nobody within 10 feet and Love not even caring to try and close out. Easy hook/push shot in the middle of the court 8 feet from the basket for Johnson.

JBBs “strategy” got us torn apart by Stanley Johnson and DJ Augustin. We get torn apart by journeymen bench guys, and not 6th men…we’re getting killed by 10th men…10 day contract guys..because they’re just NOT GUARDING PEOPLE.

I fully expect Boucher and Bitch to combine for like 45/20 against us on Thursday. Well swarm and double and trap and help on Siakim all night and get carved up. I’m just hoping Mobley and Garland can rise above it all and get the W.
Getting DG some much needed rest for the next two days thankfully.

Great post. Do everything possible to turn Lebron into a jump shooter has been the book on him for ages. It rarely works completely but it's obviously better than having him be the orchestrator for his team. How we could be helping off other Lakers and inviting Lebron to hit the open man on pass after pass is beyond me.

 

[Dr. Claw]

Yep. The PLAYERS didn’t execute HIS game plan.

To my eye. They executed his game plan just fine. They overhelped and one of the best passers of all time carved them up.

Bickerstaff is obsessed with help defense. He is stuck on the idea that even if we double, as long as the next 3 guys make the right rotation…we’ll be fine.

Well, the fact of the matter is LeBron has been slicing up even the best “on a string” defenses in the world for almost 2 full decades now.

The best game plan against LeBron is what Popovich subscribes to:

You guard LeBron straight up. You go under or switch every screen. You stay at home, TIGHT on all shooters and you shut the water off on baseline backdoor screens. Nothing easy or open for anyone else. LeBron has come a long way as a consistent shooter so this is a little more painful than it was in 2011 but still is the best way to do. He still scored 40 but had a triple double to go along with it and his teammates were loving it and useful for once.

The Lakers proved they can’t defend for shit. We scored even with ur bench not producing, out shooting being off and foul trouble for LeVert and Mobley (fuck the refs for that btw..we probably win without that constant foul trouble that the refs were eager to gift to Bron)

They also scored off of turnovers almost every time. The Cavs transition defense was insanely porous and the turnovers were often unforced errors. Yet the game was easily winnable until Bickerstaff just absolutely shit the bed when we were up 1 point and he came out with a stupid as lineup that the Lakers just scored on and beat like a drum. Mobley or Moses Brown in there would have potentially stopped almost every bucket they got in that stretch. I would have even considered putting them in together for a couple minutes. Garland was in his bag and would have gotten us offense but we just needed two minutes of stops and rebounding.

If LeBron scores 65 points on mostly jumpers and you lose; you tip your cap and your lack offense is probably to blame.

But instead JBB was obsessed with trying to throw these weird delayed doubles at LeBron after he already got his shoulder past the initial defender…he literally ate us alive. Wide open dunks and layups for Johnson and Gabriel. Wide open threes for Johnson with nobody within 10 feet and Love not even caring to try and close out. Easy hook/push shot in the middle of the court 8 feet from the basket for Johnson.

JBBs “strategy” got us torn apart by Stanley Johnson and DJ Augustin. We get torn apart by journeymen bench guys, and not 6th men…we’re getting killed by 10th men…10 day contract guys..because they’re just NOT GUARDING PEOPLE.

I fully expect Boucher and Bitch to combine for like 45/20 against us on Thursday. Well swarm and double and trap and help on Siakim all night and get carved up. I’m just hoping Mobley and Garland can rise above it all and get the W.
Getting DG some much needed rest for the next two days thankfully.

Agreed with this, especially the bolded. Fuck help defense. Especially if it's LeBron. Chances are you will not have a single person on your team that can actually guard him. But what you can do is cut off his passing options. LeBron will look to pass more often than not. What's worse is that when you have Love (also Cedi) in your rotations, you can count on the other 3 guys NOT making the right rotational moves.

Lauri and Love should not ever have been on the floor at the same time against the Lakers (or really most teams, unless you know their offense is incredibly underdeveloped). One of those should have been Mobley and or Brown, at all times.

The basic things that could have been done to make a statement win, are exactly what other teams do to stymie the Cavs on offense.

This is before you get to the offensive problems (which is very much "Save us, Garland" despite the demonstrated ability to do something different).

 

[cavsfever]

Ehh, I just totally disagree with you entirely. I watch closely and I haven’t noticed a significant change in Mobleys individual defensive performance from the first 50 games and the last 20.


The team as a whole has been disastrous and it did start even before Allen got hurt. I do think Rubio getting hurt is the main culprit. He is a very elite impactful defender, he was the on floor coach defensively as much as offensively…

And most importantly he always had us controlling the pace of the game which is just so important for a good defense to stay consistent.

But just purely watching Mobley from game tape analysis perspective. IMO there has been no noticeable drop off over the last 2 months or whatever timeline you want to ascribe to it, max

I trust you have been watching closely and probably know better than I. But all I know is that in the first half of the year it was very rare to see anyone scoring on Mobley one on one but now it seems to happen routinely. I don't know if this is because of breakdowns in other areas of the defense but it's very noticeable.

I don't think this is just about Rubio. Yes, he was fantastic, but he went down in late December and it seems like our defense did hold up for a while after that. At least, it wasn't as bad as it seems to be now.

 

[Cavatt]

I trust you have been watching closely and probably know better than I. But all I know is that in the first half of the year it was very rare to see anyone scoring on Mobley one on one but now it seems to happen routinely. I don't know if this is because of breakdowns in other areas of the defense but it's very noticeable.

I don't think this is just about Rubio. Yes, he was fantastic, but he went down in late December and it seems like our defense did hold up for a while after that. At least, it wasn't as bad as it seems to be now.

I think he doesn't have the juice to recover as quickly as he did with this workload. As his NBA conditioning increases we won't see this drop off.

He has more offensive responsibility right now and can't do both at a high level.

He was helping earllier in the season and was able to recover just fine.

 

[Erbium]

So was it Okoro or JBB who decided that guarding Lebron chest to chest 30 feet from the basket was the way to go in the last 4 minutes?

As already stated, you need to make Lebron a shooter and go under on the screens. Not force him into a drive, try to get over the pick, force the defense to help, and then let him find passes to wide open guys and get them going….

I was blown away at how we guarded Lebron last night. Does not make me confident, especially in a potential one game play-in, where scheme and strategy against someone like the Nets or Hawks, will very likely play a part in the games outcome.

 

[Rich]

Mobley is definitely being scored on more lately because of who he's guarding. Guys like Zubac and Embiid just muscle him out of the way.


I also think he's slower to.help because it's now almost a guaranteed offensive rebound to the center he's guarding. Our guards don't crash down to help on the boards ever and with no Allen that leaves him to both help and grab defensive boards.

To me, Markennen is the guy who looks really slow at closing back out to shooters after helping.


There's a lot of schematic things we do that he's covered up that isn't happening now and are being exposed.

 

[All4One1ForAll]

Mobley is definitely being scored on more lately because of who he's guarding. Guys like Zubac and Embiid just muscle him out of the way.


I also think he's slower to.help because it's now almost a guaranteed offensive rebound to the center he's guarding. Our guards don't crash down to help on the boards ever and with no Allen that leaves him to both help and grab defensive boards.

To me, Markennen is the guy who looks really slow at closing back out to shooters after helping.


There's a lot of schematic things we do that he's covered up that isn't happening now and are being exposed.

He's also been getting burned 1-on-1 a lot lately though. That wasn't happening early in the year as he shut off the water for guys like Trae and Lillard. Lately guys like Westbrook and Harden just to give a couple recent examples have been hunting him and successfully drawing fouls on him and scoring on him. It's definitely the increased workload and physical wear and tear from the year, so it's not some condemnation. But I don't see how anyone can say he's been the same defender.

 

[Rich]

He's also been getting burned 1-on-1 a lot lately though. That wasn't happening early in the year as he shut off the water for guys like Trae and Lillard. Lately guys like Westbrook and Harden just to give a couple recent examples have been hunting him and successfully drawing fouls on him and scoring on him. It's definitely the increased workload and physical wear and tear from the year, so it's not some condemnation. But I don't see how anyone can say he's been the same defender.

Again, you're just ignoring how foul calls across the league have dramatically increased.

He's getting called for fouls he simply wasn't being called for earlier in the year. This is proven by the numbers league wide.

 

[All4One1ForAll]

Again, you're just ignoring how foul calls across the league have dramatically increased.

He's getting called for fouls he simply wasn't being called for earlier in the year. This is proven by the numbers league wide.

Sure that’s a factor. I don’t see why it matters why. The results are the same, that his defensive impact isn’t what is was earlier in the year. I think it’s more than just getting called for fouls he wasn’t earlier though. He’s also later for rotations, playing with a bit less energy, playing further off 3P shooters, and biting on shots he shouldn’t be in the paint more often.

Moreover, increased fall calls affect every team. Not just us. Either you learn to play with it or you don’t.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Again, you're just ignoring how foul calls across the league have dramatically increased.

He's getting called for fouls he simply wasn't being called for earlier in the year. This is proven by the numbers league wide.

Exactly. Mobley is a verticality guy and he should be getting the benefit of the double on these calls but just isn’t. Not going to call that a regresson when he’s playing the same way he did earlier this year.

If anything, due to injury Mobleys role has changed so dramatically that it’s impossible for him to do EVERYTHING defensively. Like, before Rubio would funnel guys to the right side of the help and we’d have towers everywhere, long arms everywhere, Markannen on the perimeter on standstill shooters contesting stuff.

Now Bickerstaff has Markannen pegged as our go to perimeter AND interior defender for the best players in the league for some reason…and him and Love are both porous help defenders on the interior. So instead of guys getting funneled to Allen who held his own and Mobley being able to shut off the secondary passing lane in the paint…or they funneled to Mobley and Allens length would be overwhelming for the secondary target for the roll man to pass to…no we have guys getting funneled into Mobley…who makes the right play most of the time…99% of the time…but then Lauri and Love are consistently getting beaten on the back end resulting in really simple scoop passes around Mobley for guys cutting in from the baseline or other angles. As defensive 4s, Love and Lauri are just not cutting these guys off before they make their decisive moves and then they are weak ass rim protectors so their contests, which Love doesn’t even really pretend to try to do, are meaningless.


The Cavs never go under screens. They get slammed by every screen and then mediocre shooters are getting space and are able to get momentum toward the rim with the perimeter defender on their hip…which JBB is OK with because he knows they funnel to Mobley…who will shut their path off…but then JBBs scheme is counting on guys like Love Lauri as weak side help…and on perimeter guys like Osman, Garland etc..guys not involved at the point of attack…to basically track their assignment and deter them away…so the good perimeter defenders like Okoro and LeVert are getting taken out of the play with a pick because they’re never alllaed to go under, and their man then gets funneled to Mobley…and this results in all the off ball action involving our worst defenders. both in preventing the backside cuts and helping on them if they don’t get prevented. This is resulting in over helping, ball watching, easy side to side movement for the other team…and it’s neutralizing Mobley’s ability to make a difference because he’s forced to be the initial help on a high percentage of plays which takes him out of the play if the other team makes more than like 1 pass…so make 2 or maybe 3 passes because he’s so fast to recover..but all it takes is 2-3 passes to get the shot of your choice against any unit JBB puts out there because he’s incapable of actually making an adjustment to lineup or scheme. The Cavs are just so easy to game plan against.

The scheme has got to change. They should be going under screens or if that’s not possible they should be switching everything else depending on personnel. Yes you’re gonna get some pull up 30 footers dropped in over the switch or on a really good wide screen occasionally but over a significant sample size I think you’ll see opponents efficiency fall apart. Maybe alter things against certain specific teams like Golden State who we aren’t gonna even play again…Switch and go under…keep guys in FRONT of you…not to the side, not strung along on their hip for the eventual and1..not blowing by you. Sacrifice open space on the perimeter for angles all day. Protect the ball to avoid them being too problematic in transition. Stay upright and avoid long misses and hopefully you can set your half court up.

I’m all for sprinkling in the zone but it has to come alongside full court pressure and it has to be used way more sparingly that it is now. JBB is playing 12,15 mins a row in zone when it tries dudes out like wild and he’s not pressuring full court which is giving these teams so much less of a hard time in figuring out how they will attack the zone. First make them think about the 8 second violation…then make then think about getting the right guy the ball to initiate…make it difficult…and then you get in the base zone and they already are missing half the shot clock. Instead we’re letting them set up against the one with 18,20 seconds and no pressure and of course they hand wave someone to the FT line, probe Mobley to force him to commit…then make the pass and have a skilled player in the middle with bad zone defenders behind him and the best zone guy committed to the guard who’s not even in the play anymore.

The schemes just don’t make fucking sense with the personnel we have available right now. Not being given a fighting chance. The. Everyone wants to hit a three to start chunking down leads but it’s clank, clank, clank..the consistent shooting games are few and far between.

It’s just plain as day. It’s an easy fix. He doesn’t even have to change anything dramatically. Just a few tweaks and a little more film study and better advanced scouting that is taken more seriously.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Sure that’s a factor. I don’t see why it matters why. The results are the same, that his defensive impact isn’t what is was earlier in the year. I think it’s more than just getting called for fouls he wasn’t earlier though. He’s also later for rotations, playing with a bit less energy, playing further off 3P shooters, and biting on shots he shouldn’t be in the paint more often.

Moreover, increased fall calls affect every team. Not just us. Either you learn to play with it or you don’t.

How is Mobley late on rotations? He’s almost always the guy ball handlers are funneled to now? He’s not rotating. How is he playing further off 3pt shooters? He’s barely guarding any of them because he’s playing defensive Center. And as for biting on shots he shouldn’t..that’s just not how he defends. He’s a verticality guy. And that hasn’t changed at all this year. I could see a criticism of his positioning being off a little bit as he adjusts to a completely new position after 60 games as the power forward next to another 8 7 footer? But that’s natural.

95% of the difference in Mobley’s defense between now and before the ASB is honestly what has happened and mostly since Allen has gone down.

Using a boat analogy..what good is an anchor holding the ship steady if the damn thing is taking on water in 2 or 3 different sections? It’s gonna sink because sections Lauri, Love, Osman and Garland have varying holes that water is pouring in through from all directions.

 

[buzzdog]

Losing JA has had a ripple effect on the whole defense.

 

[Heat Check]

IMO, JBB is overplaying Lauri. People forget that he's 7ft and much heavier than someone like Mobley, but plays a role on defense where he moves more than Evan, not less.

For his career, Markkanen is averaging 30 minutes per game, almost all of it as a starter. There's probably a good reason the number has settled there. However, over the last five games, JBB is playing him a whopping 38mpg, with some of the toughest defensive assignments you can think of.

That doesn't make much sense. JBB is riding Lauri into the ground like Garland. And you can see it in his defense.

 

[buzzdog]

IMO, JBB is overplaying Lauri. People forget that he's 7ft and much heavier than someone like Mobley, but plays a role on defense where he moves more than Evan, not less.

For his career, Markkanen is averaging 30 minutes per game, almost all of it as a starter. There's probably a good reason the number has settled there. However, over the last five games, JBB is playing him a whopping 38mpg, with some of the toughest defensive assignments you can think of.

That doesn't make much sense. JBB is riding Lauri into the ground like Garland. And you can see it in his defense.

Guard Embiid one night, chase Grant around all over the court through screens the next night, then match up with Lebron. What's the problem?

ETA: But, he sucks on defense because he can't pull this off.

 

[cavsfever]

How can you not hold scoring efficiency against him? When you’re over 10 percentage points below the league average and 5 percentage points below Russell freaking Westbrook, you can’t just dismiss that because he’s trying to “fit in.” He’s also been significantly below league average efficiency his whole career, so this is nothing new. His shot selection is awful and he’s been a non factor on defense. If we extend the guy, that greatly limits the roster flexibility and the potential of this team. Chalk it up as a loss and move on.

I'm really hoping we figure out a way to better use Levert and this turns around. But if it stays like this it definitely counts for me as a strike against the "Koby is a genius" theory. Basically half of this board was pointing out exactly these issues (along with his propensity to get injured) well before the trade. None of this was a secret. I assumed that Koby as an expert and insider had lots of info we didn't; maybe not.