Game Thread | 2021-22 Season | Game #4 | Cavs @ Nuggets | Oct. 25, 2021

[bs80]

Jokic can afford to be the hub of his offense and have every play run through him because he doesnt play a lick of defense or expend an ounce of energy on that end at all. Lauri Markannen showed us that on the first possession.

If that's your goal for Mobley's offensive development, you are going to see what I referenced for AD and Bron above. Giannis only broke through and made it beyond the first round because Bud took the ball out of his hands and made his ATL equal opportunity offense the focus and Middleton the closer come the 4th.

This isn't a Mobley vs Garland as facilitators discussion. This is a Mobley's development will be harmed long-term if we make him the primary facilitator discussion.

Fair point. I still think we should develop those skills in him so he can adequately run the offense when our starting primary facilitator needs a break and our backup PG just isn't cutting it.

I agree that we dont want to wear Evan down by asking him to be the full time offensive hub, but come next year if Rubio isn't around, I'd rather run the offense through Mobley for the 15 or so minutes Garland is on the bench rather than hand the keys over to Pangos.

 

[Lee]

I've got examples all day

Kevin Garnett was on a different trajectory and probably would have had more contending seasons in Minnesota before they gave in to Marbury's trade request and attempted to make KG the offensive hub with a couple of score first undersized shooting guards in the PG role. Those two guards (Randy Foye and Troy Hudson) were pretty solid scorers but drained years off KG's career because he had to spend so much energy and time being the primary facilitator on offense as well as what he was wired to do, which was quarterback the defense and cover the entire floor like Mobley projects to be able to do and is showing flashes for now.

The lone season where KG was able to relinquish control as primary facilitator was the WCF season where Sam Cassell took the reigns and made sure instead of setting the table, KG was clearing his plate on offense more.

As much as I love and don't want to limit Mobley's developmental potential, I believe the two ways we can do that are by:

1. making him the everyday center and asking him to take a beating from 5's who will post his ass up and put their weight on him like Jokic, Embiid
2. ask him to be the primary and main facilitator of the offense, which will wear on him and make him prioritize between being elite as a defensive anchor with limitless energy and just being respectable as a man to man defender OR a weakside help defender who has to conserve energy on D to always have it on the other end

Those two things will result in him becoming AD at the end of his NOLA tenure or Bron at the end of his first tenure here, tired of doing it all on both ends and frustrated by his inability to conserve energy so he can take over games when it's winning time.

But I digress and hope it doesnt come to a place where I'm tapping you on your shoulder in our inbox thread saying " I told you so, Tip"

Its pretty simple to me. Make Mobley our pf, have him play in that role offensively and defensively. On offense have him take the ball out top some and in the elbow some to take advantage of some of his unique skills and help him develop his game, but play pretty traditional, he doesnt have much of a back to the basket game, but he seems to be more natural in space anyways. On defense let him play the other teams PF as he is best defending face up players. Let him play help defense and do your typical NBA switching defense. I actually love some of the zone schemes the coach is using, not something i would have done, but doesnt mean i dont love it.

Basically I think Mobley is a pf now, and a pf in the future. Sure he has allot of skills and will play some center in the future and play some wing on defense, but you want to take advantage of his unique defensive skills you keep another defensive big out there to defend the bigger centers because it allows Mobley to roam and alter shot after shot.

I dont think we need to overthink this and honestly i love what the team is doing with Mobley so far. Doesnt hurt his dad is keeping an eye on things and knows his son better than anyone. I am ready to move up in the 2nd if we have to so we can draft his brother. Hire the dad for something and make the Mobley's feel as comfortable as possible....maybe the mom can take Max's old job and vend nachos.

 

[Ohioplayer00]

I sometimes chuckle at posts like this.

There are 5 players on the court in basketball.

Almost every bad team is just one good, well fitting player away from being a playoff contender when over half the teams make the playoffs.

But not all teams like the Cavs average 20 wins a season after they lose a HOFer. I’m talking about building a roster for contention. Everybody talks about trading away Sexton, Garland or Okoro….but how about “adding” what this team needs. And several teams are 2-3 players away from contention. We have quietly added some real nice pieces. If you want to Nick Pick my post…..fine. But you have been one of the people on here crying for a quality SF (so chuckle at that while you’re at it)

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

ETA: I moved all of this to the Mobley thread.

Jokic can afford to be the hub of his offense and have every play run through him because he doesnt play a lick of defense or expend an ounce of energy on that end at all. Lauri Markannen showed us that on the first possession.

If that's your goal for Mobley's offensive development, you are going to see what I referenced for AD and Bron above. Giannis only broke through and made it beyond the first round because Bud took the ball out of his hands and made his ATL equal opportunity offense the focus and Middleton the closer come the 4th.

This isn't a Mobley vs Garland as facilitators discussion. This is a Mobley's development will be harmed long-term if we make him the primary facilitator discussion.

I'm tanned, rested, and ready....

I'm with @Cavatt on this. I think it's a bad idea to sacrifice Mobley's only current exceptional offensive skill based on a theory that he'll be too tired to play good defense. That's setting an artificially low ceiling of being a pure defensive specialist -- basically Marcus Camby -- on him, and I think that's nuts. If we're not taking advantage of his elite skills on both ends of the court, we're giving up a big part of what makes him special. So with that said....

I don't buy that acting as a distributor out of the high post - the Jokic role -- is all that exhausting compared to playing just as a normal PG or center. It may actually be less exhausting because it requires less constant off-ball movement. Jokic isn't a bad defender because he expends too much energy on the offensive end -- he's a bad defender because he's (self-admitted) slow as hell. And we wouldn't be asking Mobley to bring the ball upcourt on every possession either, which is something both LBJ and even Garnett did. Let the "PG" do that. It's just that once the ball is brought into the forecourt by the PG, a lot of plays (not all) would be initiated by passing the ball to Mobley at the high post or in a horns set.

Now maybe by the time he hits 30 or so, we might have to shift the load a bit on him if he starts getting fatigued. Or manage his minutes more. But right now, he's young, full of energy, and very slightly built so he's not lugging some huge body around the court. Let's have him do what he does best on both ends of the court unless and until he shows he's physically incapable of handling it.

ETA: I moved all of this to the Mobley thread.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

ETA: I moved all of this to the Mobley thread.




I'm tanned, rested, and ready....

I'm with @Cavatt on this. I think it's a bad idea to sacrifice Mobley's only current exceptional offensive skill based on a theory that he'll be too tired to play good defense. That's setting an artificially low ceiling of being a pure defensive specialist -- basically Marcus Camby -- on him, and I think that's nuts. If we're not taking advantage of his elite skills on both ends of the court, we're giving up a big part of what makes him special. So with that said....

I don't buy that acting as a distributor out of the high post - the Jokic role -- is all that exhausting compared to playing just as a normal PG or center. It may actually be less exhausting because it requires less constant off-ball movement. Jokic isn't a bad defender because he expends too much energy on the offensive end -- he's a bad defender because he's (self-admitted) slow as hell. And we wouldn't be asking Mobley to bring the ball upcourt on every possession either, which is something both LBJ and even Garnett did. Let the "PG" do that. It's just that once the ball is brought into the forecourt by the PG, a lot of plays (not all) would be initiated by passing the ball to Mobley at the high post or in a horns set.

Now maybe by the time he hits 30 or so, we might have to shift the load a bit on him if he starts getting fatigued. Or manage his minutes more. But right now, he's young, full of energy, and very slightly built so he's not lugging some huge body around the court. Let's have him do what he does best on both ends of the court unless and until he shows he's physically incapable of handling it.

ETA: I moved all of this to the Mobley thread.

Wait... Tip, you tan?

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

@The Human Q-Tip I'm reading your substantive post this morning after posting mine and I see a lot theoretical overlap. Which means I don't think we disagree completely and am willing to admit that my hard take is more railing against the "we dont need a primary facilitator like Rubio or Garland on the floor because Mobley can do it" train of thought.