Going back to school

[RuanuLaw]

Also look for schools that have projects with companies as part of the curriculum. You and your classmates go in for a couple weeks and work on something for a big company in the area. This is one of the staples what good MBA programs are doing. They get you some work experience but you also start networking directly with these companies while still in school.

Can you give some example of this? And what universities do you know of that specifically have these programs in place?

Or are you referring to projects that are part of classes such as Project Management or Six Sigma?

 

[inliner311]

Can you give some example of this? And what universities do you know of that specifically have these programs in place?

Or are you referring to projects that are part of classes such as Project Management or Six Sigma?

Ohio State has it but I know alot of the top 25 full time programs do it. Ohio State calls it applied learning.

http://info.fisher.osu.edu/graduate/ftmba-brochure

I actually did something similar in a summer abroad program in college. We worked on a marketing campaign for Frito Lays. We broke up in groups and created marketing campaigns to directly pitch to Lays executives. We were guided by teachers but Lays would bring in people to help us out every couple days. I'm not sure if any of our ideas got used in the summer I was there but previous years they took some of them and made campaigns around them.

 

[natedagg]

Nice thread and breadth of responses. @BMAN what was the outcome? @Chris my thoughts apply to anyone on the fence about school or looking to consider going back. My thoughts are ABSOLUTELY clouded by my personal experiences... sorry in advanced for the jumbled and biased opinions & information!

I think college starts too early in life, or at least it did for me. I went to a top 30 school, 800 miles from home, and did a lot of drinking and sex. We simply weren't all made to study - and I have a double major in Math and Psychology. The former is puzzles and the latter for me is intuitive - and I mention this because without my passion for those things, I'd have failed out of the math and maybe even not graduated. That said, if you feel a newfound motivation to actually engage in the classroom, I think you'll find any type of school relatively easy, and as you've all alluded to, the outcome of the grades is just a portion of how to capture the most value of your most precious commodity, time, and your money (or someone else's money).

I test well. Got a 93 on the series 7, so it's not like I am not advocating for more school, it's just that I've seen people go to escape and people go back in mid life, truly motivated, and absolutely crush it. I tell anyone studying for the 7, the GMAT, or the CFP/CPA, I've met plenty of idiots who have done well on these tests, and that's a great thing. It's about wanting it - and I consider that the most necessary ingredient. And if/when you commit, that's it - no second guessing, no pessimism - stay vectored: have direction and magnitude.

Now as far as school goes as it pertains to this thread, really step back and consider yourself a business. This thread has been great in helping anyone pro/con such matters. If you can get it paid for and you don't have kids, fucking do it regardless. It'll make your mental world a little bigger, your skills a bit sharper, your web (network) a little larger, AND you'll be more marketable. Plus your hobbies are probably pretty lame anyway, unless you like to cook. But stepping back, start your analysis by how your business is going - and contentedness is your currency, although to some degree fiat currency will influence your decisions as well. And write your shit out bros & bras. Type it out or write it out. I type b/c it's so much faster for me... Now write out an end of 2018 ideal situation that's realistic but can be unlike what's happening now. Write it as if it's 12/31/2018 and you are looking back on your decisions and changes. There's a cost to get to that end of year vision, in the form of time, stress, money, whatever. Now determine whether you are willing to pay it, and if not, please write down why for your own future reference.

I think the reason this post sucks is b/c I am ambivalent on the MBA and extremely bullish on all things computer science and all things blue collar (trade school related). I like the idea of a night MBA on someone else's dime, but not an all-day school thing that prevents full-time work or advancement, unless you are talking top 50 university with clear path afterward. I love computer science's future - I don't think the field gets saturated or obsolete any time soon. Also, regarding trade schools, this is just an excellent idea - I believe it was @Maximus but there are also several published articles (FWIW) commenting on how there's actually a labor shortage for blue collar jobs. This is such a "zig when they zag" move meaning there's an overabundance of education but everyone is chasing the same white collar jobs while your HVAC guy is clearing $110K.

I would advocate for entrepreneurship the most heavily of all, but I think it'd be a bit... irresponsible?... of me to do so. I think that's for a certain personality type and I don't know you guys well enough to steer you that way.

Just recognize that you have a lot going for you - you are young and have time to do these things. That's a tremendous advantage of people like me - 1 full time job, 2 part time jobs, and a family with 3 kids under 6. You should be eating my lunch. Which brings me to what I think @col63onel had to say - it's really hard to find time to spend on your "business's" state of affairs. You've got to make that happen. Take your lunch at a local starbucks every friday (or every day if possible) and just reflect, make your battle plan, manage projects by making them into small steps, find mentors (huge one, almost forgot), and forge forward.

And to paraphrase the only good thing to ever come out of Johnny Manziel's mouth - don't let it come to you, TAKE IT.

 

[Chris]

Nice thread and breadth of responses. @BMAN what was the outcome? @Chris my thoughts apply to anyone on the fence about school or looking to consider going back. My thoughts are ABSOLUTELY clouded by my personal experiences... sorry in advanced for the jumbled and biased opinions & information!

I think college starts too early in life, or at least it did for me. I went to a top 30 school, 800 miles from home, and did a lot of drinking and sex. We simply weren't all made to study - and I have a double major in Math and Psychology. The former is puzzles and the latter for me is intuitive - and I mention this because without my passion for those things, I'd have failed out of the math and maybe even not graduated. That said, if you feel a newfound motivation to actually engage in the classroom, I think you'll find any type of school relatively easy, and as you've all alluded to, the outcome of the grades is just a portion of how to capture the most value of your most precious commodity, time, and your money (or someone else's money).

I test well. Got a 93 on the series 7, so it's not like I am not advocating for more school, it's just that I've seen people go to escape and people go back in mid life, truly motivated, and absolutely crush it. I tell anyone studying for the 7, the GMAT, or the CFP/CPA, I've met plenty of idiots who have done well on these tests, and that's a great thing. It's about wanting it - and I consider that the most necessary ingredient. And if/when you commit, that's it - no second guessing, no pessimism - stay vectored: have direction and magnitude.

Now as far as school goes as it pertains to this thread, really step back and consider yourself a business. This thread has been great in helping anyone pro/con such matters. If you can get it paid for and you don't have kids, fucking do it regardless. It'll make your mental world a little bigger, your skills a bit sharper, your web (network) a little larger, AND you'll be more marketable. Plus your hobbies are probably pretty lame anyway, unless you like to cook. But stepping back, start your analysis by how your business is going - and contentedness is your currency, although to some degree fiat currency will influence your decisions as well. And write your shit out bros & bras. Type it out or write it out. I type b/c it's so much faster for me... Now write out an end of 2018 ideal situation that's realistic but can be unlike what's happening now. Write it as if it's 12/31/2018 and you are looking back on your decisions and changes. There's a cost to get to that end of year vision, in the form of time, stress, money, whatever. Now determine whether you are willing to pay it, and if not, please write down why for your own future reference.

I think the reason this post sucks is b/c I am ambivalent on the MBA and extremely bullish on all things computer science and all things blue collar (trade school related). I like the idea of a night MBA on someone else's dime, but not an all-day school thing that prevents full-time work or advancement, unless you are talking top 50 university with clear path afterward. I love computer science's future - I don't think the field gets saturated or obsolete any time soon. Also, regarding trade schools, this is just an excellent idea - I believe it was @Maximus but there are also several published articles (FWIW) commenting on how there's actually a labor shortage for blue collar jobs. This is such a "zig when they zag" move meaning there's an overabundance of education but everyone is chasing the same white collar jobs while your HVAC guy is clearing $110K.

I would advocate for entrepreneurship the most heavily of all, but I think it'd be a bit... irresponsible?... of me to do so. I think that's for a certain personality type and I don't know you guys well enough to steer you that way.

Just recognize that you have a lot going for you - you are young and have time to do these things. That's a tremendous advantage of people like me - 1 full time job, 2 part time jobs, and a family with 3 kids under 6. You should be eating my lunch. Which brings me to what I think @col63onel had to say - it's really hard to find time to spend on your "business's" state of affairs. You've got to make that happen. Take your lunch at a local starbucks every friday (or every day if possible) and just reflect, make your battle plan, manage projects by making them into small steps, find mentors (huge one, almost forgot), and forge forward.

And to paraphrase the only good thing to ever come out of Johnny Manziel's mouth - don't let it come to you, TAKE IT.

I don’t know if I can get it on someone else’s dime, or I would. Truth be told I was in sales for a roofing manufacturer for two years which may not sound blue collar but basically i spent 12 hours a day on commercial roofs and dealing with HVAC guys and all that. And I can tell you I’m not really a blue collar kind of guy, in that respect. Seems you aren’t too high on the MBA path but I do appreciate the insight. Lots of good there.

If I do it it will almost for sure be a part time where I spend my evenings on it while still working full time.

 

[natedagg]

I don’t know if I can get it on someone else’s dime, or I would. Truth be told I was in sales for a roofing manufacturer for two years which may not sound blue collar but basically i spent 12 hours a day on commercial roofs and dealing with HVAC guys and all that. And I can tell you I’m not really a blue collar kind of guy, in that respect. Seems you aren’t too high on the MBA path but I do appreciate the insight. Lots of good there.

If I do it it will almost for sure be a part time where I spend my evenings on it while still working full time.

Charlotte has lots of large companies. I'd call HR of all of those companies and ask which ones offer an MBA program. I'd be pretty upfront: say you are interested in a career with their company but as a gentleman and a scholar, one of your prerequisites for your services and dedication is to align with a firm that has the same values and prioritizes an educated workforce. Lol that doesn't sound totally upfront but (I hope) you get my point...

Yeah I am in a white collar job so I suppose I could be guilty of viewing the grass as greener. If I get rich, I am flipping houses with my friends that are much more handy than I am. I just love doing hick shit (being outside) and house projects, although I am fairly unskilled.

I don't really have a lot of information on the MBA path, so I wouldn't put any weight on my ambivalence.

 

[Zog]

I think you’ve already gotten some good advice, and the main thing is that you should be certain that the program you go into will give you a foot in the door to some good jobs (as discussed, look for a university that partners with big companies in your area).

MBA’s are somewhat of a dime a dozen nowadays. So I think the value is not as high as maybe 15 years ago, at least not if you get the MBA from a no-name school, and even the value of a school outside of the top 20-30 maybe be questionable.

Personally, I will never go back to school unless someone else is paying for it, or at least some of it, and if it is also a prerequisite for a nice promotion. But, I’m lucky enough to have an engineering degree from a top 6 engineering school, so I might also think a little differently if my undergrad degree didn’t open plenty of doors for me.

That’s essentially what it comes down to, as stated above. Does going through the program open up doors for you that you can’t get a foot into now? If so, it’s probably worth it. If not, I wouldn’t spend money on it. So I think the important part is finding a program that has a track record of placing students into positions at companies that you have interest in.

 

[Chris]

I think you’ve already gotten some good advice, and the main thing is that you should be certain that the program you go into will give you a foot in the door to some good jobs (as discussed, look for a university that partners with big companies in your area).

MBA’s are somewhat of a dime a dozen nowadays. So I think the value is not as high as maybe 15 years ago, at least not if you get the MBA from a no-name school, and even the value of a school outside of the top 20-30 maybe be questionable.

Personally, I will never go back to school unless someone else is paying for it, or at least some of it, and if it is also a prerequisite for a nice promotion. But, I’m lucky enough to have an engineering degree from a top 6 engineering school, so I might also think a little differently if my undergrad degree didn’t open plenty of doors for me.

That’s essentially what it comes down to, as stated above. Does going through the program open up doors for you that you can’t get a foot into now? If so, it’s probably worth it. If not, I wouldn’t spend money on it. So I think the important part is finding a program that has a track record of placing students into positions at companies that you have interest in.

Yeah. No offense but if you have an engineering degree, you have no idea what I’m dealing with. I went from making around $70,000 to $12.50/hr at a dead end job because I was desperate after getting canned and now I’m stuck here unable to find shit. I suppose I could get back into sales but I fucking hate it. So, why?

If you have an in demand undergrad I could see why an MBA may not be worth it. But put yourself in my shoes, then ask, is it worth it? I would think I’d be able to find a career with an MBA. I’m hoping so because I’m pretty much out of ideas.

 

[Zog]

Yeah. No offense but if you have an engineering degree, you have no idea what I’m dealing with. I went from making around $70,000 to $12.50/hr at a dead end job because I was desperate after getting canned and now I’m stuck here unable to find shit. I suppose I could get back into sales but I fucking hate it. So, why?

If you have an in demand undergrad I could see why an MBA may not be worth it. But put yourself in my shoes, then ask, is it worth it? I would think I’d be able to find a career with an MBA. I’m hoping so because I’m pretty much out of ideas.

What is your degree in?

I think you really just have to do the research and see what people that go through the MBA programs you would be considering end up with after. I’m not sure how easy it is to search on LinkedIn for people that have an MBA from a certain school but it might be worth a try to do some digging on there.

Sometimes you also just have to know the right people as well, so perhaps networking in an MBA program would allow you to make some contacts at companies you might like to work at. Perhaps that’s another thing you should research... what companies send their employees to these programs? Would give you a chance to meet people that work at those companies and perhaps that’s your foot in the door.

My job now doesn’t really involve much engineering, though it helps a little. I went to school for MechE and got a job at a smaller company as a MechE. Got involved in an IT software project, moved into supply chain and became a power user of that software. Then went to a couple other companies doing projects with that software, and now I’m a consultant for a company that helps other companies implement the software.

The reason I shared that is simply to demonstrate that your career path isn’t completely dependent on your degree. If you can become very good at something your company uses, you can parlay it into other opportunities. I realize you’re just looking to get your foot in the door, but sometimes developing unique skills on the job can help you open up other doors that you might not have considered previously possible.

 

[Chris]

What is your degree in?

I think you really just have to do the research and see what people that go through the MBA programs you would be considering end up with after. I’m not sure how easy it is to search on LinkedIn for people that have an MBA from a certain school but it might be worth a try to do some digging on there.

Sometimes you also just have to know the right people as well, so perhaps networking in an MBA program would allow you to make some contacts at companies you might like to work at. Perhaps that’s another thing you should research... what companies send their employees to these programs? Would give you a chance to meet people that work at those companies and perhaps that’s your foot in the door.

My job now doesn’t really involve much engineering, though it helps a little. I went to school for MechE and got a job at a smaller company as a MechE. Got involved in an IT software project, moved into supply chain and became a power user of that software. Then went to a couple other companies doing projects with that software, and now I’m a consultant for a company that helps other companies implement the software.

The reason I shared that is simply to demonstrate that your career path isn’t completely dependent on your degree. If you can become very good at something your company uses, you can parlay it into other opportunities. I realize you’re just looking to get your foot in the door, but sometimes developing unique skills on the job can help you open up other doors that you might not have considered previously possible.

The only thing I ever wanted to really do is be a Marine. I was a dick hair from joining out of HS and the rents freaked. So I said I’d give college a shot despite having zero clue what my passions were as far as a career. I went to OSU, dicked around, eventually just studied Communications. While I admit I did learn a lot of soft skills (despite what people think about that degree), it isn’t marketable at all. So I got the easy degree, went to apply for Marine OCS and was told it’d take a year or two before a spot opened up.

Long story short, got mugged and shot by some cuntbag back in 2013 and couldn’t serve in the military due to my injuries. Been trying to find out what the fuck to do pretty much since then.

So the mess is of my own creation, but honestly @natedagg is right. We go to college too early. I had zero idea what I wanted back then.

I wasn’t trying to be hostile at all, I’m just frustrated as a success-driven person and extreme competitor trying to get ahead in this world. It really sucks being knocked back down to poverty level after thinking you’re out of it. I live with the gf now so I survive but man, it’s rough.

 

[David.]

The only thing I ever wanted to really do is be a Marine. I was a dick hair from joining out of HS and the rents freaked. So I said I’d give college a shot despite having zero clue what my passions were as far as a career. I went to OSU, dicked around, eventually just studied Communications. While I admit I did learn a lot of soft skills (despite what people think about that degree), it isn’t marketable at all. So I got the easy degree, went to apply for Marine OCS and was told it’d take a year or two before a spot opened up.

Long story short, got mugged and shot by some cuntbag back in 2013 and couldn’t serve in the military due to my injuries. Been trying to find out what the fuck to do pretty much since then.

So the mess is of my own creation, but honestly @natedagg is right. We go to college too early. I had zero idea what I wanted back then.

I wasn’t trying to be hostile at all, I’m just frustrated as a success-driven person and extreme competitor trying to get ahead in this world. It really sucks being knocked back down to poverty level after thinking you’re out of it. I live with the gf now so I survive but man, it’s rough.

I'm making the equivalent to 75k in San Diego doing gig economy shit. Would recommend

 

[Zog]

The only thing I ever wanted to really do is be a Marine. I was a dick hair from joining out of HS and the rents freaked. So I said I’d give college a shot despite having zero clue what my passions were as far as a career. I went to OSU, dicked around, eventually just studied Communications. While I admit I did learn a lot of soft skills (despite what people think about that degree), it isn’t marketable at all. So I got the easy degree, went to apply for Marine OCS and was told it’d take a year or two before a spot opened up.

Long story short, got mugged and shot by some cuntbag back in 2013 and couldn’t serve in the military due to my injuries. Been trying to find out what the fuck to do pretty much since then.

So the mess is of my own creation, but honestly @natedagg is right. We go to college too early. I had zero idea what I wanted back then.

I wasn’t trying to be hostile at all, I’m just frustrated as a success-driven person and extreme competitor trying to get ahead in this world. It really sucks being knocked back down to poverty level after thinking you’re out of it. I live with the gf now so I survive but man, it’s rough.

No offense taken.

I’d say an MBA is probably a good idea with the communications degree. Hopefully the MBA program will allow you to network, and with the soft skills you talk about, I would think you’d be good at networking. Also, if the MBA can get you into some interviews, again the soft skills may come in handy there. Just try not to go into crazy debt to get it.

 

[Norm]

The only thing I ever wanted to really do is be a Marine. I was a dick hair from joining out of HS and the rents freaked. So I said I’d give college a shot despite having zero clue what my passions were as far as a career. I went to OSU, dicked around, eventually just studied Communications. While I admit I did learn a lot of soft skills (despite what people think about that degree), it isn’t marketable at all. So I got the easy degree, went to apply for Marine OCS and was told it’d take a year or two before a spot opened up.

Long story short, got mugged and shot by some cuntbag back in 2013 and couldn’t serve in the military due to my injuries. Been trying to find out what the fuck to do pretty much since then.

So the mess is of my own creation, but honestly @natedagg is right. We go to college too early. I had zero idea what I wanted back then.

I wasn’t trying to be hostile at all, I’m just frustrated as a success-driven person and extreme competitor trying to get ahead in this world. It really sucks being knocked back down to poverty level after thinking you’re out of it. I live with the gf now so I survive but man, it’s rough.

I think it was @David that mentioned trade school?

Sounds like you are a "hands on" type of person. Meaning you like seeing your results as they happen. Not a bad quality. I'm that way. I've got a technical degree in construction, and also many years of experience in the field that my age wouldn't show. It's not terrible. There are apprenticeships that allow you to have a good life financially once you get your tenure in. You're still young and have time to decide what you want to do.

I went to college in 08 to change fields due to an injury and doctors telling me to so i wouldn't be disabled by the time I'm 40. Was 2 years in when i realized that while I liked IT and game design, I couldn't thrust my entire life into my schooling. No networking from the school and the school went through multiple instructors in 2 years. Didn't really get the feeling that I would be "prepared" for that world when I graduated. Plus, a wife and 2 kids, loans were piling up fast using fa to survive. Tried it again, online in 14, but that route showed you quickly that it would be mostly just a title on a paper.

Too much rant on my part. Moral is, don't go to school just to go to school. Go only if you are certain that is your passion and if the schools can get you an "in" in the industry while you are there. That "in" can eleviate an enormous amount of stress once you graduate. I got more "ins" from the technical school (5) in 10 months than I did from either school in almost 3 years (0). My financial situation would be alright for having 3 kids and a wife if it wasn't for bad decisions financially while I was younger....mainly my student loans for a trade I will never use as a career. While being financially wealthy could be a goal of yours, don't know, I'd recommend being happy with whatever career or trade or industry you decide to delve into. If you only choose a career because of money? You may find yourself in a similar situation years down the road where you want to go to school again.

Don't know if any of that post helped. But, figured I'd give you a perspective of someone who has been in similar shoes with dropping to low level poverty and moving on. While bigger money always looks better, it depends on the "means" of acquiring your finances that really allow you to find a career. Don't think you have to compete with your peers and their "jobs". Just be happy with what you do. If you love your job, you'll never work a day in your life

 

[inliner311]

The only thing I ever wanted to really do is be a Marine. I was a dick hair from joining out of HS and the rents freaked. So I said I’d give college a shot despite having zero clue what my passions were as far as a career. I went to OSU, dicked around, eventually just studied Communications. While I admit I did learn a lot of soft skills (despite what people think about that degree), it isn’t marketable at all. So I got the easy degree, went to apply for Marine OCS and was told it’d take a year or two before a spot opened up.

Long story short, got mugged and shot by some cuntbag back in 2013 and couldn’t serve in the military due to my injuries. Been trying to find out what the fuck to do pretty much since then.

So the mess is of my own creation, but honestly @natedagg is right. We go to college too early. I had zero idea what I wanted back then.

I wasn’t trying to be hostile at all, I’m just frustrated as a success-driven person and extreme competitor trying to get ahead in this world. It really sucks being knocked back down to poverty level after thinking you’re out of it. I live with the gf now so I survive but man, it’s rough.

To just go off of what @David. said about doing gig stuff. You might not even have to go directly to that route. There must be something you have seen through your sales career that you say damn they make alot off this. Maybe it's something you could just buy in bulk, split up, and sell it on eBay or Amazon. Something like that could suppliment your income right now or for an MBA.

It might not even have to be anything expensive. Things that people are annoyed that they have to buy 5 or 10 of when they need one.