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Greatest Athlete We Will Ever See?

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My 2 cents worth... is Messi one of the top athletes ever? I say no. He's good at soccer... but you cannot possibly put him in the same category as Jim Thorpe, Bo Jackson, or any world class decathlete like Daley Thompson. Guys like I listed weren't just good at one sport, they were great at multiple sports... world class great.

Is he one of the top soccer players ever? Yes. Where he ranks doesn't really matter, the answer is yes.

Is he in the top 3 most dominant players in their sport ever? No. And any talk of most dominant player in their sport HAS to include Gretzky, and Tiger and maybe Ali. Also, when talking of most dominant, how can you exclude someone like cricket's Don Bradman, or tennis's Roger Federer, swimming's Michael Phelps, etc.

Messi is great at his sport, but is he even the best ever at soccer? Not sure what being good at soccer has to do with being in the conversation as greatest athlete, and as good as he is, he is certainly not in the consideration as most dominant ever.

OP has tunnel vision, and as much as he decries others for "not knowing the sport", he is guilty of the same thing, (and I like soccer and watch World Cup, US men and women's matches, and Premier league every chance I get!)
 
My 2 cents worth... is Messi one of the top athletes ever? I say no. He's good at soccer... but you cannot possibly put him in the same category as Jim Thorpe, Bo Jackson, or any world class decathlete like Daley Thompson. Guys like I listed weren't just good at one sport, they were great at multiple sports... world class great.

Is he one of the top soccer players ever? Yes. Where he ranks doesn't really matter, the answer is yes.

Is he in the top 3 most dominant players in their sport ever? No. And any talk of most dominant player in their sport HAS to include Gretzky, and Tiger and maybe Ali. Also, when talking of most dominant, how can you exclude someone like cricket's Don Bradman, or tennis's Roger Federer, swimming's Michael Phelps, etc.

Messi is great at his sport, but is he even the best ever at soccer? Not sure what being good at soccer has to do with being in the conversation as greatest athlete, and as good as he is, he is certainly not in the consideration as most dominant ever.

OP has tunnel vision, and as much as he decries others for "not knowing the sport", he is guilty of the same thing, (and I like soccer and watch World Cup, US men and women's matches, and Premier league every chance I get!)

I just don't know how you can say that so confidently knowing what Messi has accomplished and how consistent he has been. He is the best soccer player ever, without a doubt.

Why is what he has accomplished, all-time records all over the place, worth so much less to you and others? Honest question. It should be worth MORE in a sport like soccer where basically every kid in the world outside of the U.S. plays it at one time or another.

I really don't understand why Tiger being the second best golfer ever makes him more dominant, and then Bo Jackson is more dominant because he played multiple sports. You can't make the Bo Jackson argument and the Tiger argument at the same time.

As a soccer player, you absolutely cannot play multiple sports. Players fall in and out of "form" all the time because soccer is so incredibly technical.

Did you read the Wikipedia excerpt in the OP?
 
Some of you obviously have no idea how soccer works. Talk about it like it's a sub-par sport that doesn't deserve attention or that the players aren't athletic. That is a load of bullshit, it's a huge load of bullshit.

Soccer is the biggest sport from a world wide stand point with 3-3.5 billion fans and 270 million people playing or working in the sport. That's 4% of the worlds population that plays or works in the game of futball. To laugh off a claim of US bias against soccer is ignorance at it's finest because it does exist, even in this thread.

If you're trying to say Messi doesn't belong on the list of greatest athletes that is crazy, the guy is in the top 10 for sure. He may not be number one but he is definitely top 10, I'd personally put him in the top 5. I don't know of any other sport where you are in constant motion for 45 straight minutes, or longer since a team can only use 3 subs throughout the whole game. The level of endurance soccer takes is akin to the those that run triathlons and on top of that the sport Messi plays is one where you can't use your hands. People seem to forget this or overlook it.

The dexterity, coordination, speed and awareness needed to do some of things he does with a ball on his feet while avoiding 10 defenders and leaving space for 9 teammates is amazing. Even more so when you realize that about 85% of the time he's going full speed while controlling the ball with his feet..

The fact that Messi has accomplished everything he has with a genetic disease that is a GROWTH HORMONE DEFICIENCY he was diagnosed with at 11 is unreal.

This is what Messi had accomplished before the age of 24 (as of 2011 so I'm sure you can toss in quite a bit more):


Barcelona

La Liga Title (Spanish League Winner): 5 - 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11

Copa del Rey (Tournament): 1 - 2008-09

Supercopa (Championship): 5 - 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011

UEFA Champions League: 3 - 2005-06, 2008-09, 2010-11

UEFA Super Cup (Championship): 2 - 2009, 2011

FIFA Club World Cup: 2 - 2009, 2011

Barcelona's All-Time Record Goalscorer: 238 goals

Barcelona Record Goalscorer: UEFA Champions League: 51 goals

Barcelona Record Goalscorer: European Competitions: 52 goals

Barcelona Record Goalscorer: International Competitions: 56 goals

Argentina (International Play)

FIFA U-20 World Cup: 1 - 2005

Olympic Gold Medal: 1 - 2008

Individual Awards

(FIFA) Ballon d'Or: 3 - 2009, 2010, 2011

FIFA World Player of the Year: 1 - 2009

World Soccer Player of the Year: 2 - 2009, 2011

World Soccer Young Player of the Year: 3 - 2006, 2007, 2008

ESM Team of the Year: 5 - 2005–06, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11

European Golden Shoe (Scoring Award): 1 - 2010

La Liga top goalscorer: 1 - 2010

Copa del Rey top goalscorer: 1 - 2011

La Liga Player of the Year: 3 - 2009, 2010, 2011

LFP Best Player: 3 - 2009, 2010, 2011

LFP Best Forward: 3 - 2009, 2010, 2011

La Liga Foreign Player of the Year: 3 - 2007, 2009, 2010

La Liga Ibero-American Player of the Year: 4 - 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011

UEFA Champions League top goalscorer: 3 - 2009, 2010, 2011

UEFA Best Player in Europe Award: 1 - 2011

UEFA Club Footballer of the Year: 1 - 2009

UEFA Champions League Forward of the Year: 1 - 2009

UEFA Champions League Final Man of the Match: 1 - 2011

UEFA Team of the Year: 4 - 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011

Onze d'Or: 3 - 2009, 2010, 2011

Bravo Award: 1 - 2007

Tuttosport Golden Boy: 1 - 2005

FIFA Club World Cup Golden Ball: 2 - 2009, 2011

FIFA U-20 World Cup Player of the Tournament: 1 - 2005

FIFA U-20 World Cup top goalscorer: 1 - 2005

Copa América Young Player of the Tournament: 1 - 2007

FIFPro World Young Player of the Year: 3 - 2006, 2007, 2008

FIFA/FIFPro World XI: 5 - 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011

Olimpia de Oro: 1 - 2011

Olimpia de Plata: 6 - 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011

Male Best Athlete in Latin America: 1 - 2011

Marca Leyenda: 1 - 2009

L'Équipe Champion of Champions: 1 - 2011
 
Thank you KB

Soccer is the only sport which requires equal training of fast-twitch and slow-twitch muscle fibers, if anyone knows what those are.

EDIT: I'm expecting to get blasted for this so save your breath. But at my high school we had awesome football/soccer programs. We got together with some of the football guys and played 7-7 flag (yes no tackling, so their advantage in size was moot) and we tore them up. They ended up quitting and making excuses because it wasn't "real" football. You know why we won? Because we were used to making reads on the fly, containing players in front of us, and knew how to read and set up passing lanes at a higher level.

The mental game in soccer is so underrated, the awareness you need to play is really incredible.
 
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Damien and KB... I appreciate your support for soccer, and for a great player. I for one am not putting soccer down (I do watch as much as I can, and watch every US Men's/Women's National Team matches that are televised). I've acknowledged Messi is great... but, most dominant... nope. Greatest ever? Probably not.

Biggest hole in his resume... WC. If he was that dominant, or that great... come on now. He'd have a WC. In fact, wasn't it the last WC were he basically s hit the bed? Great players make great plays when the match is on the line.

He is a great player in a specialized sport... just like greats in BB, or tennis, or swimming. But Greatest Athlete We Will Ever See? (which happens to be the title of this thread) No. Not even close.

Negative rep all you want... neither of you have even proven he's the best in his own sport, let alone the whole vast and varied total world of sports.
 
I just don't know how you can say that so confidently knowing what Messi has accomplished and how consistent he has been. He is the best soccer player ever, without a doubt.



I really don't understand why Tiger being the second best golfer ever makes him more dominant, and then Bo Jackson is more dominant because he played multiple sports. You can't make the Bo Jackson argument and the Tiger argument at the same time.

I can find you plenty of lists with a google search, created by people far more knowledable than me, who do not have Messi in the top 5 soccer all-time.

As for Tiger, yes, I had him as one of the most dominant, but not as the greatest athlete. I had Bo in the greatest athlete category (what you were asking for in the original post), but not in the most dominant.
I think there is a difference.

Messi is fun to watch, but is definately not the consensus all time greatest soccer player. He is a very dangerous player who must be marked at all times, but soccer is much too intricate for any one player to dominate (vs Wayne Gretzky, who clearly was the most dominant player on skates for many years).

And again, to your original question is Messi the greatest athlete we will ever see? Come on now. You are just being shortsighted and refusing to appreciate other great athletes in other sports... the same thing you and KB are accusing others of.
 
I can find you plenty of lists with a google search, created by people far more knowledable than me, who do not have Messi in the top 5 soccer all-time.

As for Tiger, yes, I had him as one of the most dominant, but not as the greatest athlete. I had Bo in the greatest athlete category (what you were asking for in the original post), but not in the most dominant.
I think there is a difference.

Messi is fun to watch, but is definately not the consensus all time greatest soccer player. He is a very dangerous player who must be marked at all times, but soccer is much too intricate for any one player to dominate (vs Wayne Gretzky, who clearly was the most dominant player on skates for many years).

And again, to your original question is Messi the greatest athlete we will ever see? Come on now. You are just being shortsighted and refusing to appreciate other great athletes in other sports... the same thing you and KB are accusing others of.

You're getting into semantics, and you're moving the target. I phrased the title as a question for a reason. Is he the most dominant ever yet? No. Of the last 20 years? Yes. Is he on track to be the most dominant ever? Yes.

So wait...soccer is harder to dominate.... but he has to win a World Cup and make " big plays with the game on the line" before he can be considered the best ever. Do I have that right? Nevermind the fact that he won 4 straight Man of the Match awards.

WC isn't the end-all-be-all. It's the biggest stage, but it's not the highest level of competition.
 
I can find you plenty of lists with a google search, created by people far more knowledable than me, who do not have Messi in the top 5 soccer all-time.

As for Tiger, yes, I had him as one of the most dominant, but not as the greatest athlete. I had Bo in the greatest athlete category (what you were asking for in the original post), but not in the most dominant.
I think there is a difference.

Messi is fun to watch, but is definately not the consensus all time greatest soccer player. He is a very dangerous player who must be marked at all times, but soccer is much too intricate for any one player to dominate (vs Wayne Gretzky, who clearly was the most dominant player on skates for many years).

And again, to your original question is Messi the greatest athlete we will ever see? Come on now. You are just being shortsighted and refusing to appreciate other great athletes in other sports... the same thing you and KB are accusing others of.

I don't know what articles you've been reading that don't have Messi in the top 5 for soccer alone....They must be old as shit because I can honestly say it's obvious you haven't read an article on soccer since about 2010 since all the below articles were found with a quick "google search"

This is from March 22nd 2015 (interview with Pele)

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...onaldo-best-player-in-last-10-years-says-pele

From July 2014 - has him # 2 behind Ronaldo

http://www.caughtoffside.com/2014/0...naldo-fighting-for-top-spot-once-again-final/

From June 2013 # 2 behind who else but LBJ

http://www.ibtimes.com/sportsnet/long-live-king-lebron-james-heads-top-10-sportsmen-planet-1320965

March 2012 - Time Mag, "Best ever?" Article title about Messi

http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/...-breaks-barcelona-and-spanish-scoring-record/

This is from April 2011 - Currently the best player and on pace to be the best ever in his sport

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...at-theyre-saying-about-Barcelona-striker.html

If you want a good look at why people say that US sports enthusiasts have a bias against soccer please read the below article

https://bigdealmcneiljm.wordpress.c...s-best-athletes-played-soccer-wed-still-suck/

Also I find the last bolded part of your post to be condescending as fuck, pretty blatant if you ask me.

I think Bo Jackson with no injury would be top 10 no question, taking his injury into account he's somewhere between 20-25 imo

In no particular order I'd have say that the top 10 would like something along the lines of

Jordan
Jackie Robinson
(ability to perform considering social issues at the time is big role in this as mental fortitude means just as much to an athlete as physical gifts)
Messi
Carl Lewis
Pele
Ali
Gretzky
Jim Thorpe
Tiger
Deion Sanders

I know I'm going to get a "really Deion Sanders?" but he is one of the most, if not the most, successful two sport athlete in recent memory
 
@KB and @Damien O'Connel, why do you feel the need to be like this?

I can't stand this shit from American soccer fans. There is no need to act like a dick just because you like something that a lot of over Americans don't like. Stop.

I know it's hard when American sports fans put down soccer, but reverting to their tactics is not going to win soccer over more fans.

I love soccer and wish more people would watch it and appreciate it, but treating them like they are dumb if they don't is really stupid.

Also, I get that you both are Barca fans and all over Messi's nuts, but your argument that he is the greatest soccer player ever when there is a real debate (despite you claiming otherwise) over who is better between him and Ronaldo makes your argument instantly false.

Who's the one acting like a dick here....
 
Calling you out for being a disservice to American soccer fans doesn't mean I'm a dick.

Wow. Read my original post and think about what I was trying to accomplish and then call me a disservice to American soccer fans.

Calling out KB is even more ridiculous. He made like 2 posts listing facts.
 
Both of you are attacking a guy who watches the USMNT and USWNT plus other soccer stuff simply because he doesn't think that Messi is the greatest soccer player ever or the greatest athlete ever, both of which are totally subjective titles that are impossible to prove.

Just because both of you list all of the stats/achievements of Messi does not mean that he is suddenly the GOAT. I get that you guys like Messi and think he's really good, and that's totally fine, just slow your roll a little bit when someone posts an opinion that is contrary to your argument.

Attacking people who like the sport will not help grow the sport, which is clearly something you are passionate about.

When did I attack him????

And again, to your original question is Messi the greatest athlete we will ever see? Come on now. You are just being shortsighted and refusing to appreciate other great athletes in other sports... the same thing you and KB are accusing others of.

That's the only "attacking" statement in our debate and it came from him.
 

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