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HOF 2022 ballot

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Kenny lofton

Then whatever other assholes are on the list
 
syndication.bleacherreport.com

The Steroid List Revealed?

Big hat tip to Right off Russell, who has come upon the rumored list of Major League Baseball players who allegedly tested positive for stroids in 2003...
syndication.bleacherreport.com

Supposedly that was a leaked list of players who used PEDs... if true how much does that change the list?
 
DCTribefan said:
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My ten

Mark Buerhle
Tim Hudson
Curt Schilling
Andruw Jones
Scott Rolen
Jeff Kent

Not question is, do I believe the Mitchell report?...

If I do then Helton, Abreu, Ortiz, Pettitte, Bonds, Clemens, Ramirez, A-Rod, Sheffield, Sosa, etc are all out... Pudge though got voted in even though he was in it....Now Manny, A-Rod, Sosa I believe all got caught and Ortiz, Pettitte admitted to using then if I recall correctly... Pettitte though has 250 wins...

On paper numbers wise Vizquel and Hunter both have similar careers, GG with solid but not spectacular hitting numbers... Vizquel is in legal troubles though... Rollins has more WAR than Vizquel but less GGs... if you put in Wagner do you not have to put in a John Franco?

Everyone else is out in my mind...

So to be fair, those 6... if I had to choose ten, then I would go Hunter, Sheffield, Vizquel and Helton...

Abreu and wagner are 11 and 12...

I'd vote Vizquel as a baseball player since honestly when it comes to SS defense, hard to say he wasn't top 5 all time...

I personable do believe Bonds and Clemens used something for long period of times, so I couldn't personally vote them in...
 
In 2017, the BBWAA voted in the former Baseball Commissioner who presided over the Steroid Era, Bud Selig..

Any member of the BBWAA that voted Bud Selig in but refuse to vote in Arod, Manny, Barry, Clemens, etc.. etc.. are hypocrites and not deserving or any honors or support or, most importantly, to decide who is or isn't HOF worthy.. That means:

-No visitation to Cooperstown, the surrounding villages and points of interest..

-No purchase of chachkeys and paraphenalia from the HOF...

No support of ANY kind.. spiritually or financially..

Everyone is permitted their say/opinion on the matter.. but only the HYPOCRITS opinions matter.. pretty damn sad..

THE END..
 
Stark said:
Billy Wagner is criminally underrated.
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Problem is the fact Lee Smith didn't get in for the longest time and he was one of the best closers of all time, its hard to see Wagner getting in with the older writers who haven't updated their voting to the modern era...
 
Without getting into specific names, my thoughts on the HOF voting.

First, I like it a lot better than the way the NFL does it. A high percentage of players enshrined in Canton don't belong, but because of the rule that a minimum number must be inducted every year, many undeserving sneak in.

My feeling is that before any proven steroid user gets into Cooperstown, Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose should be inducted. There is absolutely no proof that Joe Jackson ever did anything to lose a game. His play during the 1919 Series belies that to an extent that makes the suggestion ludicrous.

If we are to hold players to a different era's sense of what's right and what's wrong off the field, then Rose should be inducted. Gambling on baseball...on any professional sport...is now allowed across the nation. Nobody has ever accused Rose of betting against himself or his team.

Neither Jackson nor Rose did as much to tarnish baseball...or at the very least change the odds of winning in their favor...as the prolific steroid users.

As for Omar...and not counting the recent multiple allegations against him....if you are the best at what you do, perhaps the best in history, you should be in the HOF. The best home run hitter, the best base stealer, the best strike out pitcher, the best defensive player....all belong in the HOF.

If Omar isn't the best ever, he is pretty darn close.
 
CATS44 said:
Without getting into specific names, my thoughts on the HOF voting.

First, I like it a lot better than the way the NFL does it. A high percentage of players enshrined in Canton don't belong, but because of the rule that a minimum number must be inducted every year, many undeserving sneak in.

My feeling is that before any proven steroid user gets into Cooperstown, Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose should be inducted. There is absolutely no proof that Joe Jackson ever did anything to lose a game. His play during the 1919 Series belies that to an extent that makes the suggestion ludicrous.

If we are to hold players to a different era's sense of what's right and what's wrong off the field, then Rose should be inducted. Gambling on baseball...on any professional sport...is now allowed across the nation. Nobody has ever accused Rose of betting against himself or his team.

Neither Jackson nor Rose did as much to tarnish baseball...or at the very least change the odds of winning in their favor...as the prolific steroid users.

As for Omar...and not counting the recent multiple allegations against him....if you are the best at what you do, perhaps the best in history, you should be in the HOF. The best home run hitter, the best base stealer, the best strike out pitcher, the best defensive player....all belong in the HOF.

If Omar isn't the best ever, he is pretty darn close.
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Rose and Jackson definitely need to be renewed with the Hall in sight for both...

With Vizquel, he isnt number one, but can easily make the argument of being top 5 all time at SS defensively. He got 2877 in hits, so its not like he was horrible with a bat. As a player on the field, he was a slap hitter that was willing to steal you a base and as a SS, he was a once in a generation type of talent...
 
sportscoach said:
Rose and Jackson definitely need to be renewed with the Hall in sight for both...

With Vizquel, he isnt number one, but can easily make the argument of being top 5 all time at SS defensively. He got 2877 in hits, so its not like he was horrible with a bat. As a player on the field, he was a slap hitter that was willing to steal you a base and as a SS, he was a once in a generation type of talent...
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Just curious, who do you think was a better defensive SS than Vizquel?
 
sportscoach said:
I have Ozzie Smith number one...
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A very good option, but a clear #2 to Vizquel in my opinion.

- Vizquel averaged 7.6 errors per season at shortstop; Ozzie averaged almost twice as many at 14.8.
- Vizquel is #1 on the list of shortstops with the highest fielding % in MLB history at .985; Ozzie Smith is 25th on the list.
- Moreover, during his prime Vizquel was competing against 13 other shortstops in the AL who are in the Top 100 all time in fielding %; Smith competed against only 7 such NL players. Vizquel competed against 5 Gold Glove winners who were in their primes; Smith competed against only 2.
- That makes Vizquel's 11 Gold Gloves a significantly more difficult achievement than Smith's 13. Smith dominated only slightly more during an area with significantly less shortstop talent.
- While not "data-driven" like the above points, having watched both of them during the primes of their careers, Smith would make a spectacular play at shortstop 10-12 times per season; Vizquel did it seemingly every other game. Smith made spectacular plays look spectacular; Vizquel made spectacular plays look routine.
 
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Cratylus said:
A very good option, but a clear #2 to Vizquel in my opinion.

- Vizquel averaged 7.6 errors per season at shortstop; Ozzie averaged almost twice as many at 14.8.
- Vizquel is #1 on the list of shortstops with the highest fielding % in MLB history at .985; Ozzie Smith is 25th on the list.
- Moreover, during his prime Vizquel was competing against 13 other shortstops in the AL who are in the Top 100 all time in fielding %; Smith competed against only 7 such NL players. Vizquel competed against 5 Gold Glove winners who were in their primes; Smith competed against only 2.
- That makes Vizquel's 11 Gold Gloves a significantly more difficult achievement than Smith's 13. Smith dominated only slightly more during an area with significantly less shortstop talent.
- While not "data-driven" like the above points, having watched both of them during the primes of their careers, Smith would make a spectacular play at shortstop 10-12 times per season; Vizquel did it seemingly every other game. Smith made spectacular plays look spectacular; Vizquel made spectacular plays look routine.
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There is another factor you have to take into things, the fact that Ozzie was able to get to more balls cause of his range and he was an overall better athlete. That my tiebreaker
 
Vizquel played on grass Ozzie on turf. Turf will produce a truer bounce.
 
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