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HOF 2022 ballot

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I agree, although the counterargument from writers in legacy media is that there's a vital distinction between "performance enhancers" like roids and "performance enablers" like amphetamines.

That does get sticky. Troy Percival was known to guzzle massive amounts of coffee during games to get hyped up. Perfectly legal, though it certainly impacted his performance on some level. So I do think there is a line that has to be drawn, and I think the traditional PED's are probably it.
 
1) Being a racist pig isn’t something that should be keeping people out of sports Hall of Fames in my opinion. I very much dislike racists. I also very much dislike applying off-field issues to determine whether someone makes a Hall, unless you want to publish a list of specific behaviors that eliminate people.

2) Many of the things that have been said about Ty Cobb have been proven very unlikely to be true, including that he was racist!

But modern writers kept Schilling out for that reason, or atleast he is an asshole. If the media like Schilling, he would be in. He isnt a sure fire HOFer, but he probably did enough in the regular season that his post season should of put him over the top.

I just find baseball writers arrogant and annoying.
 
Baseball is a ball or strike game. You're safe or out. No pretty close.
The games Bonds and Clemens played in were official games. No ejections .No suspensions.
If they are official games, MLB should live with it. So should HOF voters.
That's why I think the HOF should evolve to find a reasonable way to tell the complete story of baseball.
 
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Baseball is a ball or strike game. You're safe or out. No pretty close.
The games Bonds and Clemens played in were official games. No ejections .No suspensions.
If they are official games, MLB should live with it. So should HOF voters.
That's why I think the HOF should evolve to find a reasonable way to tell the complete story of baseball.
So basically if a tree falls in the woods, and no one is there to hear it, there clearly was no noise?

I would argue that breakign the rules, regardless of if you were punished for it, is still breaking the rules.
 
So basically if a tree falls in the woods, and no one is there to hear it, there clearly was no noise?

I would argue that breaking the rules, regardless of if you were punished for it, is still breaking the rules.
The rules of the actual games were not broken. Bonds DID hit all those HR's. You throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the ball. The only rules on substances which MAY hay been broken were never proved. If you can't prove or enforce a rule, it's sort of worthless.

In my mind, the HR king will always be Hank Aaron. But that doesn't make it so.
 
So basically if a tree falls in the woods, and no one is there to hear it, there clearly was no noise?

I would argue that breakign the rules, regardless of if you were punished for it, is still breaking the rules.

Problem is during the steroid era with an educated guess, a good majority of players at some point took something since it was so wide spread in use... Pitchers and hitters both took it. If majority took it, is the game still fair? Are those stats still actually legit if that statement I made early was true?
 
Problem is during the steroid era with an educated guess, a good majority of players at some point took something since it was so wide spread in use... Pitchers and hitters both took it. If majority took it, is the game still fair? Are those stats still actually legit if that statement I made early was true?
Barrels of Androsteendione were flying off the shelves of the GNC.. and Bud Selig was beating his drum (promoting the hell out of the game and the power surge) to bring fans out to see the spectacle.. There wasn't illegality to the use of PED's until Jose Canseco blew the whistle and congress threatened to bring the league to it's knees with rescinding section 2 of the Sherman Antitrust act as it related to baseball..

Then the shit really hit the fan.. the PR plan was put in motion with "survey testing".. (showing how so many players including David Ortiz were using).. followed by rules and penalty implementation.. The MLBPA was powerless to prevent the oncoming Guilt/Shaming of their membership..

and the band played on...
 
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Baseball is a ball or strike game. You're safe or out. No pretty close.
The games Bonds and Clemens played in were official games. No ejections .No suspensions.
If they are official games, MLB should live with it. So should HOF voters.
That's why I think the HOF should evolve to find a reasonable way to tell the complete story of baseball.
The HOf doesn't need to enshrine a player to 'tell the complete story of baseball.'. They have all kinds of memorabilia of guys who never were enshrined.
MLB should pay for an addition to the HOF that would be where the steroid
suspicious players could be enshrined. Just make sure it has an enlarged dome.
Make a wing shaped like an asterisk and is scaled up 20%, with that enlarged dome right in the middle of the asterisks spokes. Put up exhibits to each of the 'greats' of the 90s and 00s. I think we all can support this as a solution.
 
Problem is during the steroid era with an educated guess, a good majority of players at some point took something since it was so wide spread in use... Pitchers and hitters both took it. If majority took it, is the game still fair? Are those stats still actually legit if that statement I made early was true?
Assuming that steroids were as much of a help to pitchers as hitters. But I suspect that isn't the case, given the different nature of the physical prowess needed for those specialties.
 
Not sure why, but it just doesn't sit well with me for Papi to go in first ballot and Bonds to not get in. There seems to be some kind of hypocrisy there, but maybe that is just my bias.
 
Not sure why, but it just doesn't sit well with me for Papi to go in first ballot and Bonds to not get in. There seems to be some kind of hypocrisy there, but maybe that is just my bias.
Of the two guys mentioned, only one tested positive for PED's..
 
Of the two guys mentioned, only one tested positive for PED's..
Well kind of .....

Papi was part of the steroid group on the survey round, or so it would seem. That was an MLB test.

Bonds never tested positive, but an outside source makes it obvious he was part of the steroid group.

With both there is a lot of inuendo, but no MLB suspension for a failed test. More public facts with Bonds I'll give you that, but when you get right down to it, not a lot of difference.
 
I'd absolutely vote them all in, Pete Rose too.
I draw the line much further down to where poor Joe Jackson stands; may he rest in peace.

Cheating to win is a classic disgrace, but Joe took money to lose games, and that's about the only deal-breaker in my book.

He's more celebrated as a cautionary tale anyway.
 
Just to reiterate a point that has been made before -- MLB itself could not unilaterally take action against PED's without the consent of the Players Association, which for a long time strongly opposed effective testing.
That being said, I don't care. Bonds, Manny, Clemens, etc etc belong in the HOF.
 

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