How much better are we?

[Ohioplayer00]

I don’t think we have the best. It’s a super stacked league right now. Results matter more than on-paper potential talent. I would expect at least half of the Celtics, Warriors, Bucks, Sixers, Nets, Suns, Timberwolves, Clippers, Grizzlies, Nuggets, Heat, Pelicans, Mavericks, and Raptors to have a better starting five lineup +/- than us. In a few years though, with a little more development and if we can establish the guy at that starting 3 spot, I think we could have the best starting five. But right now, our frontcourt spacing and backcourt defense will hold us back from truly elite territory.

I think we have the best (youngest) starting line up in the league

 

[Futuredome]

I think we have the best (youngest) starting line up in the league

Besides that, the Cavs are the best chance for a title in the next 5 years. The Browns are a joke and the Gindians are a try hard franchise who gets squished by the big money teams in the playoffs.

 

[guitarguy]

The NBA is tricky, cause in one respect, you could say the Cavs legitimately might have 4 all stars in the starting lineup, but at the same time, not have a top 15 player in the league (yet).

Then you look at the Nets, and if they get it together, you could argue they have the best player in the league, and another top 10 player in Kyrie (if he shows up) and Simmons wasn't so long ago a top 20 player in the league...

or in other words there is still a pretty big difference between a top 5 player and a top 25 player... The league is about talent. What we have to hope for is that Mobley makes some steps and starts to get in the conversation of top 25 this year...and beyond. It seems plausible at least. Can Mobley end the year strong? I am reminded a bit how Lebron kept evolving... you have that sort of trajectory and it's hard to say how good he will be at the end of the year.

I actually don't know how much better Mitchell can get, and we know Garland looks to also get better, but don't think Garland or Mitchell ever become a top 15 player in the league, i could be wrong though.

Also as I'm typing this I realize that none of this means anything, ha.. and I'm certain you could argue some top 30 player is a top 10 player and vice/versa depending on the criteria. Regardless... I'm not sure you could say the Cavs have a better starting lineup than GS, Boston, Brooklyn, Suns etc...

 

[cavsfever]

The NBA is tricky, cause in one respect, you could say the Cavs legitimately might have 4 all stars in the starting lineup, but at the same time, not have a top 15 player in the league (yet).

Then you look at the Nets, and if they get it together, you could argue they have the best player in the league, and another top 10 player in Kyrie (if he shows up) and Simmons wasn't so long ago a top 20 player in the league...

or in other words there is still a pretty big difference between a top 5 player and a top 25 player... The league is about talent. What we have to hope for is that Mobley makes some steps and starts to get in the conversation of top 25 this year...and beyond. It seems plausible at least. Can Mobley end the year strong? I am reminded a bit how Lebron kept evolving... you have that sort of trajectory and it's hard to say how good he will be at the end of the year.

I actually don't know how much better Mitchell can get, and we know Garland looks to also get better, but don't think Garland or Mitchell ever become a top 15 player in the league, i could be wrong though.

Also as I'm typing this I realize that none of this means anything, ha.. and I'm certain you could argue some top 30 player is a top 10 player and vice/versa depending on the criteria. Regardless... I'm not sure you could say the Cavs have a better starting lineup than GS, Boston, Brooklyn, Suns etc...

No I think you’re right. One all time great in the starting lineup is probably worth two or even three ‘regular’ all stars. That’s why it’s so important what happens with Mobley as the guy with the highest ceiling on the team

 

[jjvors]

No I think you’re right. One all time great in the starting lineup is probably worth two or even three ‘regular’ all stars. That’s why it’s so important what happens with Mobley as the guy with the highest ceiling on the team

I can support this thesis with the 2018 Cavs. We had Lebron and Love as All Stars and then a bunch of role players. We blew through the Eastern Conference because no one could stop Lebron from scoring or passing to a score. No one in the East was at his level, HoF, top 5 of all time.

 

[cavsfever]

I can support this thesis with the 2018 Cavs. We had Lebron and Love as All Stars and then a bunch of role players. We blew through the Eastern Conference because no one could stop Lebron from scoring or passing to a score. No one in the East was at his level, HoF, top 5 of all time.

2018 is a great demonstration of that because we literally had no one beyond a good role player level except Lebron (Love hardly counts). But we hardly breezed through, tough series against Indiana and a good Boston team with multiple all star level guys

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

It seems to be like we will always have a mismatch somewhere on the floor between Garland, Mitchell, Mobley, and Allen. We can attack the opponent wherever they are weakest.

For example, we play Boston in Game 5 and Game 7 (without their starting center Robert Williams) and then don't play them again until March. We could steal two wins from them if 6'9" Al Horford, age 36, is their center trying to check Allen. They will likely have only two players in their rotation over 6'6"; Horford and 6'8" Jayson Tatum.

 

[foucault87]

It seems to be like we will always have a mismatch somewhere on the floor between Garland, Mitchell, Mobley, and Allen. We can attack the opponent wherever they are weakest.

For example, we play Boston in Game 5 and Game 7 (without their starting center Robert Williams) and then don't play them again until March. We could steal two wins from them if 6'9" Al Horford, age 36, is their center trying to check Allen. They will likely have only two players in their rotation over 6'6"; Horford and 6'8" Jayson Tatum.

Forget Allen, we have the hook shot master. Ez matchup

 

[jjvors]

2018 is a great demonstration of that because we literally had no one beyond a good role player level except Lebron (Love hardly counts). But we hardly breezed through, tough series against Indiana and a good Boston team with multiple all star level guys

Right, I remembered Indiana, because no one else contributed much to the offense besides Lebron. I forgot how hard Boston was--until game 7. They collapsed in the 4th quarter.

But both of those series prove that if you have a player no one can stop, you have a good chance.

 

[foucault87]

Right, I remembered Indiana, because no one else contributed much to the offense besides Lebron. I forgot how hard Boston was--until game 7. They collapsed in the 4th quarter.

But both of those series prove that if you have a player no one can stop, you have a good chance.

I would call mitchell a player no one can stop, but 2018 playoff LeBron was one of the best playoff runs by an individual jn NBA history. Hard comp to make

 

[Lee]

I would call mitchell a player no one can stop, but 2018 playoff LeBron was the best playoff run by an individual jn NBA history. Hard comp to make

*fixed

 

[guitarguy]

Let's not forget how good Lebron can be on Defense when he wants to. I feel like Mitchell doesn't (or hasn't) do that for you, even as magical on offense as he is (this is also one of many reasons why, in my opinion, KD will never be Lebron level even now for the most part).

But yeah, when you have an A prime player, it's worth at least 3 all stars probably, ha.

 

[Douglar]

John Hollinger's Cavs preview: Predictions, analysis for 2022-23 season

The Cavs have a clear window with their young core, including new acquisition Donovan Mitchell. What leap can they take this season?

theathletic.com

Mitchell isn’t a top-10 player in the league, but I’m not sure how much better than this Cleveland could have realistically done. .... The fact they might have overpaid is almost secondary; when was this type of opportunity going to come up again for the Cavs in the near future, at any price?​

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Why do they feel OK giving up future drafts from 2025 to 2029? It’s Mobley, whose presence should ensure they’re at least halfway decent and thus not forking over high lottery picks.​

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The good news is that the lineup is four-fifths of the way there. The bad news is that with an “ensemble-cast” type team that doesn’t have a clear-cut top-10 player in the league, it requires five-fifths to truly contend. That’s another reason to give Okoro every chance to grab this; he’s the one potential in-house solution.​

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As for this coming season, the Cavs are surely a playoff team regardless of what happens at small forward. Mitchell lifts their ceiling substantially, and the bench should be less creaky than a year ago. Rubio is back, but he turns 32 this fall and has had multiple ACL tears. Fortunately, if injuries hit, there’s another real ballhandler this time (Neto, one of the summer’s better minimum deals); they can also stagger Mitchell’s and Garland’s minutes and use LeVert on the ball.​

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Some other pieces may fit oddly now as well, particularly LeVert. There likely will be nights in December where it all looks like less than the sum of its parts.​

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Overall, I think the Cavs are probably one year away from the big jump. This year is more like the little jump, especially given the sudden strength of the East. The Cavs lost in the Play-In Tournament in 2021-22, but even in a strong Eastern Conference, I’m betting they won’t have to worry about that this time around.​

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Prediction: 47-35, sixth place in East​