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How to Trade for a Lottery Pick?

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bs80

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Now that the draft order has been established, we can start speculating over which teams we can reasonably target as trade partners. We all know that our best trading chips are expiring contracts, which means we need to identify a team that is so desperate to unload bloated contracts that they'd be willing to significantly compromise their draft position to do so. Two teams in the lottery come to mind: New York and Milwaukee.

Here's an interesting tidbit I came across:

There was no frozen envelope, no conspiracy. But now, after the Knicks wound up with the sixth pick from the NBA draft lottery Tuesday night, there are many options for Donnie Walsh in what he calls the "second stage" of the Knicks' rebuilding process.

"Now," Walsh said, "our work starts."

It starts with shopping the pick with the intention of packaging it with one of those hefty contracts on the team's bloated payroll in an effort to get some desperately needed salary-cap relief, which, for Walsh, is always Job 1. "I think we'll look at everything," Walsh said.

Zach Randolph is the most likely candidate to join the sixth overall pick on the trading block, but there is also a chance the Knicks might be convinced to use the pick.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spknix0521,0,1485783.story

It may be a stretch, but are the Knicks desperate enough to unload Randolph's contract that they'd move 13 spots down in the draft? Something along the lines of Wally + #19 for Zach + #6 perhaps? Or a package of Andy + Snow + Damon + #19 for Zach + #6 seems to pass through the trade checker. I can't speak for the Knicks, so I don't know how ridiculous that may seem in their eyes, but I think it's fathomable enough to merit some discussion. If they don't bite, then perhaps we can offer to take on one more crappy contract to get the deal done. Either of these deals would leave us with enough expirings remaining to still swing a deal with Memphis to land Mike Miller.

As for Milwaukee, it seems as if they're interested in reducing their payroll as well, though probably not as desperately as the Knicks. I'm not sure exactly which contracts they'd like to dump, though I'd imagine Gadzuric and Bobby Simmons are up there. To an extent they may also want to be rid of Redd's contract, although by taking Redd of their books, the Cavs wouldn't exactly be going out of their way to do the Bucks a favor. Thoughts?
 
^^Sweet, I suggested trading for Randolph and I like the idea of getting their pick. Mayo quite possibly could be there at pick 6. Some will say that we shouldn't help the Knicks out with their financial situation because of the threat of Lebron bolting to them. I think it's ridiculous to put that above creating a Championship contender. Randolph, Miller, and pick 6 puts us in great position in the East for years to come.
 
I'd like someone to give me an example of a GM who is willing to dump salary with a solid player while throwing in a lottery pick.

I don't think it has ever been done. The reason being, if a team is getting rid of a solid starter because they don't have a veteran team around him, the team wants to replace that solid veteran with a great rookie.

Sorry to poop on the parade.
 
I'd like someone to give me an example of a GM who is willing to dump salary with a solid player while throwing in a lottery pick.

I don't think it has ever been done. The reason being, if a team is getting rid of a solid starter because they don't have a veteran team around him, the team wants to replace that solid veteran with a great rookie.

Sorry to poop on the parade.

Yep, it's a huge stretch, I just like the way he was thinking that through. Ya have to wonder though if D'Antoni is going to feel like moving forward with Randolph there. Is he really ideal for a run and gun type offense? I doubt it. It goes without saying that Randolph is not very coveted on the trade market. I don't think teams will be knocking down his door with offers better than what we can offer for Randolph and the pick. It is my opinion that D'Antoni will listen to offers to unload both Randolph and Eddy Curry.
 
I'd like someone to give me an example of a GM who is willing to dump salary with a solid player while throwing in a lottery pick.

I don't think it has ever been done. The reason being, if a team is getting rid of a solid starter because they don't have a veteran team around him, the team wants to replace that solid veteran with a great rookie.

Sorry to poop on the parade.



Your response is perfectly understandable and I take no offense to my parade getting shat on. Perhaps I'm underestimating the value of Randolph. I concede that the Cavs would likely get more out of Zach than the Knicks did, but he's still not a guy that I want on this team without getting something significant in return, and I feel that the majority of GMs out there would feel the same way. I used him as an example of a guy that the Knicks desperately wanted to erase from their payroll. I don't see him as being a KG, Gasol, or even an AI type that another team would particularly covet.

Hell, if it makes this trade scenario any closer to being a possibility, you can substitute Curry and Jared Jeffries (their combined contract is almost the same as Zach's for the same length as well) into those trade scenarios instead of Zach. Does that trade sound more reasonable from NY's perspective? We can add a 2009 draft pick if that helps.

Of course we'd be stuck with some deadweight on the books through the '10-'11 season (Curry + Jeffries = $18MM for '10-'11). However, for the most part, this management's style seems to lean toward using expiring contracts as trade assets rather than making a big splash in free agency. A trade like this would preclude us from being players in any FA market through 2010, so yes, we miss out on Wade, Bosh, etc. (as if we had a decent chance anyway). But when paired (cross fingers) with a trade with Memphis that brings us Mike Miller and Brian Cardinal, we'd still have plenty of cap flexibility. In the '09-'10 season, we'd have $21MM worth of expirings ($14MM for Ben Wallace, $7MM for Brian Cardinal) not including Mike Miller's $9MM expiring deal as well. The following season, we'd have the aforementioned expiring contracts of Curry and Jeffries. The point being, the structure of our payroll gives us the flexibility to take on a few ugly contracts if that is what it takes to land a valuable piece to our team.

And for the record, I don't think that targeting the #6 pick is a matter of OJ Mayo or bust. If Ferry can't land Mike Miller, then the #6 could be used to sweeten the pot to trade for Redd since Milwaukee currently picks #8 and those two slots may be enough to push the deal over the edge. If the SG position is finally solved, then I'd look to inject young blood into the aging frontcourt by taking DeAndre Jordan.

I'd like to give my take on the whole "we shouldn't help the Knicks clear space because they will steal LeBron" issue. The way I see it, we do whatever it takes to improve our squad. If LeBron likes what the organization builds for him, and he feels that the team will be a perennial championship contender, he has little reason to skip town. Let's not be naive, the big-market theory and all that other junk are certainly factors that will cross his mind. However, LeBron's conquest is not to merely be a national hero -- he wants to make his mark where the BIG bucks are -- he's going GLOBAL. I think he realizes that a half billion people in China won't give a flying f*** whether he plays in NY or the middle of nowhere, as long as he's winning championships. Therefore, I think playing in a big market PALES in comparison to building a winning legacy on the court. Now will Cleveland be the organization that offers him that opportunity? Let's hope so. That's why this organization need to do whatever it takes to improve this team, regardless of the consequences for the damn Knicks. We're not talking about the proverbial "chicken or the egg" conundrum here. Instead we're talking "take care of business and the rest don't f***ing matter."
 
Trading for Randolph/Curry: NO

Trading for Randolph/Curry and netting the 6th pick: YES.

Honestly, I'd rather have Curry than Randolph, just because Curry is more of a typical low post player while Randolph hits a lot of face up jumpers (he'd be a better version of Z). I think the Cavs would be better fit with a legit low post scorer.

Neither one plays defense, but with Mike Brown, I'm sure things could improve a bit on that end. Randolph seems to have more off the court issues (which could be why the 6th pick is available) but neither guy is known for his attitude.

If the Cavs could swing something for one of their bigs + the 6th pick, they'd be sitting really pretty (especially if they could net Mayo). And at that point, I wouldn't care about trading with the Knicks, as the Cavs would have improve so much. If the Cavs are going to help either NY or NJ with their long term deals, they should be getting a lot better in the process.
 
Randolph isnt worth taking even if we get the 6th pick. He would stink this team up big time.
 
I think if you were willing to take back Randolph and Jefferies(or James) you could maybe get them to agree to that pick swap. But really the Knicks need a good young player, I think they'd kill walsh if he traded their pick.
 
Randolph isnt worth taking even if we get the 6th pick. He would stink this team up big time.

It's worth it if you get Mayo, who a lot of people believe is the most NBA ready in the draft.
 
I was thinking that maybe a deal like Zach Randolph + #6 pick for Anderson Varejao, Eric Snow + #19 pick would be a good deal for both teams, but only if OJ Mayo is there... Otherwise there isn't a player that is worth the time or effort...

I think it's a real possibility that we could trade up into the lottery...

Miami has said they are willing to trade their pick...

Seattle has mentioned they would be willing to...

New York has said the same...

To me, it only makes to sense to trade up for Derrick Rose, OJ Mayo, Michael Beasley and maybe Brook Lopez and Jerryd Bayless... Beside those 3, maybe 5, no other player is worth trading up for and giving up a lot...

There is certainly a possibility and I'm hoping that OJ Mayo somehow falls in range and one of the teams in the top 6 is willing to trade their pick for a nice player, cap relief and pick swaps...
 
If the idea of the trading as high as #6 sounds like asking for too much, I wonder if there's another team we can target. I mentioned Milwaukee (#8) already, but I don't think they have nearly as much deadweight on that team as the Knicks do. I'm also curious if we have a shot at swapping picks with Indiana (#11), as they have some ugly contracts on their book.

The fact that we don't really have any young talent to trade away makes these trades a tough sell. If we're going to try to trade up in the draft through mere expiring contracts, we're gonna have to take on some serious deadweight -- guys that not only take up a cap space, but also provide little value at the same time. When I say serious deadweight, I'm obviously not talking about guys like Redd, who while overpaid, still has some value. I'm talking about guys like Jerome James who sit around and collect paychecks while doing squat. This is the type of contract we'd need to eat to have any shot at being compensated with a higher draft pick.

Looking at the Pacers, Jermaine O'Neal is on the books for two more years at roughly $22MM per year. The guy spends as much time injured as Larry Hughes and has a much bigger contract. I can't really speak for their front office or their fans, but I'd imagine that, as good as he could be, they'd be relieved to get his albatross of a contract off their payroll. Troy Murphy and Jamaal Tinsley are each signed for three more years at $11MM and $7MM per year, respectively. I wonder if they're looking to dump both of those guys as well. Murphy put up halfway decent numbers this year, so maybe he's not as useless as I may have implied. Tinsley, likewise, didn't completely suck, but he's been a headcase as of late, especially with his off-court issues. Now since the drop from #11 to #19 isn't nearly as bad as the drop from #6 to #19, I'd be interested in seeing if anything here was possible. I'm well aware that some people only want to trade up into the lottery if it means drafting Mayo, but for now I'm trying to come up with thoughts to get a higher draft pick, period, with the assumption that it would be high enough to land a quality piece to our puzzle.
 
Here's another scenario involving both Indiana and New York that we might be able to build off of. Let me start off with a disclaimer: I'm not saying I'm all for this trade, as it has the potential to completely blow up in our face, but I've tried to come up with a scenario that would net us the #6 pick while being somewhat fair and equitable for each team involved.


Cleveland trades:
Anderson Varejao ($5.8MM, likely expiring)
Wally Szczerbiak ($13.0MM, expiring)
Eric Snow ($7.3MM, expiring)
2008 1st rounder (#19 overall)

Cleveland receives:
Zach Randolph ($14.7MM)
Eddy Curry ($9.7MM)
2008 1st rounder (#6 overall)

Like I said, I'm not exactly foaming at the mouth to jump over this trade, but it does land us a high pick, and I suppose it provides some youth (granted fat and lazy as well) to our aging frontcourt. We can only hope that these guys would be more motivated once they leave the hellhole situation they were in with the Knicks, but I'm not getting my hopes up. And whoever we'd take with the #6 overall better f***ing step up. Again, I realize this trade could completely backfire, and I'm not sure if I'd be up for something this risky.


Indiana trades:
Jermaine O'Neal ($21.4MM)
Jamaal Tinsley ($6.8MM)

Indiana receives:
Anderson Varejao ($5.8MM, likely expiring)
Wally Szczerbiak ($13.0MM, expiring)
Eric Snow ($7.3MM, expiring)

I really don't know what Pacers fans would think of this trade, but I do fear that they may feel they're getting the short end of the stick. Maybe a future draft pick could be thrown their way? Or maybe throw in Pavs? I honestly don't know how they would feel about losing O'Neal for little in return, but I also don't know how they feel about paying $21M per year for a guy as oft-injured as he is. A bonus would be getting out of the Tinsley contract which lasts for another three seasons. They would clear a ton of cap space, and may even be able to use those expirings as trade bait (Wally and their #11 for Mike Miller and Kyle Lowry?).


New York trades:
Zach Randolph ($14.7MM)
Eddy Curry ($9.7MM)
2008 1st rounder (#6 overall)

New York receives:
Jermaine O'Neal ($21.4MM)
Jamaal Tinsley ($6.8MM)
2008 1st rounder (#19 overall)

It's no secret that the Knicks are desperately looking to trade away Zach with the #6 pick. If they can get rid of Curry in the process, that'd be gravy. However, they'd be taking back a big contract in O'Neal. The catch is, Jermaine's contract expires before that magical 2010 offseason that they're aiming for. Tinsley's contract runs just as long as Randolph/Curry's deals, but for a lot less money. This deal would free up $21MM of cap space for the 2010 offseason. In the meantime, they'll have an athletic PF/C in O'Neal (for the 30 games per season that he's actually healthy) that would be able to run in D'Antoni's system. They're also looking for a PG and Marbury's likely gone after this season, so assuming Tinsley avoids getting shot, he can fill in.


Now I understand that some guys don't even want Randolph alone even if it means the #6, so quite obviously you guys will absolutely detest this trade. But I'm just throwing it out there, as I feel that of all the hypothetical trades for a lotto pick, this might be the most reasonable so far, and the fact that a lot of us will be skeptical of whether or not they like the deal would be a testament to its fairness.
 
I think both of your proposals are completely insane, BS80. And my reasoning is simple.

One malcontent = potentially changeable, easily chastised for his attitude.
Two or more malcontents = disaster waiting to happen.

If you take O'Neal, you take him by himself. Same deal with either Curry or Randolph.
 
If Eddy Curry were to even become a Cav, I honestly don't know what I would do, I would be so pissed.
 
Not a Fan of any KNICK trade but what about...

Zach,Lee and 6
for
Ben,19 and Pavs

RealGM says Lee is not a favorite of the new coach
 

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