Hyperion XP-1 hypercar powered by hydrogen

[Obscured By Clouds]

The Hyperion XP-1 hypercar wants to give hydrogen a halo effect

The specs claim more than 1,000 miles of range and a top speed of 221mph.

arstechnica.com

I need this.

 

[Cavatt]

I think Hydrogen cars are really cool and might be much better environmentally than electric. Infrastructure is a problem. There aren't many places to gas up, but I am really into the tech.

 

[KI4MVP]

I think Hydrogen cars are really cool and might be much better environmentally than electric. Infrastructure is a problem. There aren't many places to gas up, but I am really into the tech.

Hydrogen cars are a complete waste power, as are gasoline powered cars. In both cases you could drive the same distance or more if you simply used the power it takes to generate the hydrogen or gasoline and wouldn't need the power in the hydrogen or gasoline at all.

the process of using electricity to extract hydrogen from water through electrolysis and then running the hydrogen through a fuel cell to generate electricity again loses over half of electricity you started with. So EVs are always going to be at least 2x as efficient as fuel cell cars.

2020 Toyota Miria fuel cell car gets 66 eMPG
2020 Tesla Model 3 gets gets 141eMPG

Toyota Miria rating ignores the energy lost producing the hydrogen, it's based on the energy potential of the hydrogen once it's generated.

It takes 55 kW of electricity to produce 1 KG of hydrogen (which has 40 kW of potential power) through electrolysis, put that resulting hydrogen in a Toyota Miria, run it through a fuel cell and use that to power the car and you get 62.4 miles of range.

Instead use that 55 kW of electricty to charge a Tesla Model 3 and you get 240 miles of range.

Alternatively, use the 15 kW of energy wasted generating the1 KG of hydrogen, and the Tesla model 3 has 62.5 miles of range.

Same thing happens if you compare an average vehicle to the tesla. It takes 8 kW of power to drill, transport an refine a gallon of gasoline. A Tesla model 3 can go 33.3 miles on that wasted power. The average new car gets 25.5 MPG.

After being refined, a gallon of gasoline has 36 KW of power. Add in the 8 it takes to produce it and it's 44 KW of power. Tesla model 3 can travel 183 miles on 44 KW of power.

 

[Cavatt]

Hydrogen cars are a complete waste power, as are gasoline powered cars. In both cases you could drive the same distance or more if you simply used the power it takes to generate the hydrogen or gasoline and wouldn't need the power in the hydrogen or gasoline at all.

the process of using electricity to extract hydrogen from water through electrolysis and then running the hydrogen through a fuel cell to generate electricity again loses over half of electricity you started with. So EVs are always going to be at least 2x as efficient as fuel cell cars.

2020 Toyota Miria fuel cell car gets 66 eMPG
2020 Tesla Model 3 gets gets 141eMPG

Toyota Miria rating ignores the energy lost producing the hydrogen, it's based on the energy potential of the hydrogen once it's generated.

It takes 55 kW of electricity to produce 1 KG of hydrogen (which has 40 kW of potential power) through electrolysis, put that resulting hydrogen in a Toyota Miria, run it through a fuel cell and use that to power the car and you get 62.4 miles of range.

Instead use that 55 kW of electricty to charge a Tesla Model 3 and you get 240 miles of range.

Alternatively, use the 15 kW of energy wasted generating the1 KG of hydrogen, and the Tesla model 3 has 62.5 miles of range.

Same thing happens if you compare an average vehicle to the tesla. It takes 8 kW of power to drill, transport an refine a gallon of gasoline. A Tesla model 3 can go 33.3 miles on that wasted power. The average new car gets 25.5 MPG.

After being refined, a gallon of gasoline has 36 KW of power. Add in the 8 it takes to produce it and it's 44 KW of power. Tesla model 3 can travel 183 miles on 44 KW of power.

Ok now calculate the energy to make the battery and dispose of it environmentally. Those are factors ignored in your analysis. Scaling up solar and wind electricity means free electricity. When you talk electricity and water conversions, you can do that forever. Is there enough lithium in the world to replace every gas car with an electric one? I don't think there is.

 

[macbdog]

Hydrogen cars are a complete waste power, as are gasoline powered cars. In both cases you could drive the same distance or more if you simply used the power it takes to generate the hydrogen or gasoline and wouldn't need the power in the hydrogen or gasoline at all.

the process of using electricity to extract hydrogen from water through electrolysis and then running the hydrogen through a fuel cell to generate electricity again loses over half of electricity you started with. So EVs are always going to be at least 2x as efficient as fuel cell cars.

2020 Toyota Miria fuel cell car gets 66 eMPG
2020 Tesla Model 3 gets gets 141eMPG

Toyota Miria rating ignores the energy lost producing the hydrogen, it's based on the energy potential of the hydrogen once it's generated.

It takes 55 kW of electricity to produce 1 KG of hydrogen (which has 40 kW of potential power) through electrolysis, put that resulting hydrogen in a Toyota Miria, run it through a fuel cell and use that to power the car and you get 62.4 miles of range.

Instead use that 55 kW of electricty to charge a Tesla Model 3 and you get 240 miles of range.

Alternatively, use the 15 kW of energy wasted generating the1 KG of hydrogen, and the Tesla model 3 has 62.5 miles of range.

Same thing happens if you compare an average vehicle to the tesla. It takes 8 kW of power to drill, transport an refine a gallon of gasoline. A Tesla model 3 can go 33.3 miles on that wasted power. The average new car gets 25.5 MPG.

After being refined, a gallon of gasoline has 36 KW of power. Add in the 8 it takes to produce it and it's 44 KW of power. Tesla model 3 can travel 183 miles on 44 KW of power.

You are ignoring that creation of fuel hydrogen is one way to store power generated by 'green' energy power like wind and solar during peak times for later use. And the developing world, which can't all go out and buy Elons latest luxury car, need affordable alternatives to gasoline if they are to enter the industrial future and be less polluting to their local enviro. If hydrogen can do that then awesome.

 

[KI4MVP]

You are ignoring that creation of fuel hydrogen is one way to store power generated by 'green' energy power like wind and solar during peak times for later use. And the developing world, which can't all go out and buy Elons latest luxury car, need affordable alternatives to gasoline if they are to enter the industrial future and be less polluting to their local enviro. If hydrogen can do that then awesome.

everything about using green energy for hydrogen applies to electric cars as well, only you need more than 2x the supply of green energy, thus need to install 2x the wind/solar.

Storing electricity as hydrogen is extremely inefficient. you get less than half out of what you put in.

And Elon's cars keep getting cheaper, a trend is only going to continue. And Tesla isn't the only EV company.

 

[KI4MVP]

Ok now calculate the energy to make the battery and dispose of it environmentally. Those are factors ignored in your analysis. Scaling up solar and wind electricity means free electricity. When you talk electricity and water conversions, you can do that forever. Is there enough lithium in the world to replace every gas car with an electric one? I don't think there is.

batteries are recycled, not disposed of. And are designed to last 1 million miles.

And there's way more than enough lithium to replace every car on the world with an EV.

Do you really think it's a good idea to follow a path that requires scaling up more than 2x as much green energy because so much of it gets wasted?

 

[Cavatt]

batteries are recycled, not disposed of. And are designed to last 1 million miles.

And there's way more than enough lithium to replace every car on the world with an EV.

Do you really think it's a good idea to follow a path that requires scaling up more than 2x as much green energy because so much of it gets wasted?

Can electricity be used as rocket fuel?

 

[bob2the2nd]

Can electricity be used as rocket fuel?

Do nuclear bombs count?

 

[Cavatt]

Do nuclear bombs count?

Man, the guy who invented the "Nuclear briefcase bomb" with a beryllium reflector had an idea to make a super fast spaceship using H-bombs. You drop them out of the back of the spaceship and the back of the spaceship is a giant blast reflector/shield. So when the bomb goes off you will be propelled forward. His calculations said you could hold enough bombs to accelerate to the speed of light.

He also wanted to dig a vacuum tunnel for a super train from NY to LA this way. He thought nuclear charges should be used more practically. I can't remember his name and I am not going to google this stuff.

 

[KI4MVP]

Can electricity be used as rocket fuel?

what does that have to do with hydrogen fuel cell vs electric cars? I never said fuel cells wouldn't useful other places (like cargo ships), it just makes no sense for cars.

 

[bob2the2nd]

Man, the guy who invented the "Nuclear briefcase bomb" with a beryllium reflector had an idea to make a super fast spaceship using H-bombs. You drop them out of the back of the spaceship and the back of the spaceship is a giant blast reflector/shield. So when the bomb goes off you will be propelled forward. His calculations said you could hold enough bombs to accelerate to the speed of light.

He also wanted to dig a vacuum tunnel for a super train from NY to LA this way. He thought nuclear charges should be used more practically. I can't remember his name and I am not going to google this stuff.

You got it!!

 

[Cavatt]

what does that have to do with hydrogen fuel cell vs electric cars? I never said fuel cells wouldn't useful other places (like cargo ships), it just makes no sense for cars.

In my imagination, you have a high efficiency paint that your car uses to produce electricity as a solar cell, and it absorbs moisture from the air or a little tank and there is basically no refueling. Self fueling car.

We should try to scale up green electricity as much as possible anyway whether for this or just to meet or growing needs without fossil fuels.

When I was a kid people said, "Batteries suck, you can never have a good car with them". Not true. Hydrogen tech is behind batteries.

Hydrogen has a very high energy density, and as others said it is a good way to store energy.

Also the more we know about hydrogen, the better. At some point controlled fusion will become necessary.

 

[Obscured By Clouds]

Hydrogen cars are a complete waste power, as are gasoline powered cars. In both cases you could drive the same distance or more if you simply used the power it takes to generate the hydrogen or gasoline and wouldn't need the power in the hydrogen or gasoline at all.

the process of using electricity to extract hydrogen from water through electrolysis and then running the hydrogen through a fuel cell to generate electricity again loses over half of electricity you started with. So EVs are always going to be at least 2x as efficient as fuel cell cars.

2020 Toyota Miria fuel cell car gets 66 eMPG
2020 Tesla Model 3 gets gets 141eMPG

Toyota Miria rating ignores the energy lost producing the hydrogen, it's based on the energy potential of the hydrogen once it's generated.

It takes 55 kW of electricity to produce 1 KG of hydrogen (which has 40 kW of potential power) through electrolysis, put that resulting hydrogen in a Toyota Miria, run it through a fuel cell and use that to power the car and you get 62.4 miles of range.

Instead use that 55 kW of electricty to charge a Tesla Model 3 and you get 240 miles of range.

Alternatively, use the 15 kW of energy wasted generating the1 KG of hydrogen, and the Tesla model 3 has 62.5 miles of range.

Same thing happens if you compare an average vehicle to the tesla. It takes 8 kW of power to drill, transport an refine a gallon of gasoline. A Tesla model 3 can go 33.3 miles on that wasted power. The average new car gets 25.5 MPG.

After being refined, a gallon of gasoline has 36 KW of power. Add in the 8 it takes to produce it and it's 44 KW of power. Tesla model 3 can travel 183 miles on 44 KW of power.

This is cool and all, but this is a hyper car. Batteries = heavy weight. Fuel cells = low weight. This thing weighs only 2,275lbs. In comparison, a LaFerrari weighs around 3,300lbs with all fluids. A Model 3 weighs 3,550 to 4,100 lbs depending on spec.

 

[KI4MVP]

This is cool and all, but this is a hyper car. Batteries = heavy weight. Fuel cells = low weight. This thing weighs only 2,275lbs. In comparison, a LaFerrari weighs around 3,300lbs with all fluids. A Model 3 weighs 3,550 to 4,100 lbs depending on spec.

a hyper car that is slower than the new Tesla roadster with enough battery for 620 mile range.