Ideas on how to make this team a WS competitor going forward

[CDAV45]

I don't see competing in 2021 with these moves and who knows about 2022. After that, we will be looking at trading Bieber as he comes closer to free agency. Riley has not shown that he can hit at the major league level. Waters has had strike out issues in the minors and I would not expect much from him in 2021 so for 2021 we go from Lindor and Ramirez to Swanson and Gurriel which would be a definite step back. I do want Gurriel back in a Lindor trade however. In my opinion, giving up on 2021 with our starting pitching makes me sick. Just my opinion for what it is worth.

Uhhh, Riley is 23 yrs old and has displayed incredible power along with a history of hitting very well in the minors while being extremely young. I look for them to buy out a year or 2 of Bieber's arb years and keep him a little longer like they did Kluber. They may attempt to extend him like they did Carrasco. It's hard to predict the financial circumstances that far ahead. If Waters has any SO issues they are minor. More importantly, he hits for a good average, gets on base at a good clip, has some power, and is a threat on the bases.

Clearly you are one that thinks that 21 is an automatic flush, while I can't agree to that right now. I will say that it is no more of a flush than the current situation. The difference being the incredible upside that those trades would bring in. You would still have Carrasco to deal if needed as well.

If you guys are hellbent on getting Gurriel Jr, then maybe they could get Atlanta to send Camargo and keep Contreras. Johan would make a nice 2B for us until one of the prospects pushes him out. His versatility would be useful as well.

 

[Gson]

@sportscoach

Yes.. Julian Merryweather is a guy that would fit nicely into the Indians bullpen.. IDK about back of... but close to there.. He's clearly got his arm back to where it was at before the surgery.. and is now being considered for a more important role in the pen or as a long reliever/spot starter by the Jays.. the same he'd have with the Indians... with a lesser likelihood of being given starting spots (double headers?)..

The Carlos Carrasco Valuation: I have a running discussion/argument with that site administrator regarding the value of Carrasco (8.8).. In his second or third response to my questioning the voracity of the value, he stated or claimed: "..As I’ve explained before, the valuation is equivalent to a 2/36 free agent deal, which is right in line with market precedent — especially for a guy with leukemia who is 34..

Carlos has a 2/24, not a 2/36.. Carlos has a third year option at 14 making his 3 year 3/38. The age issue.. is a statistical variant that portends velocity diminishing and rising FIP/xFIP along with other matrices.. none of which are true or happening with Carlos. The comparison I gave was Sonny Gray 2/22 which was responded with.. Gray is 4 years younger so.. and my response was.. Gray will be looking for a contract after these two years at more than double his current price.. Carlos has intimated that his current contract is his last.. so.. no reason to concern over future overpaying..

Another opportunist suggested a Carlos Carrasco for Kansas City's MiLB suspect, Khalil Lee. The deal was straight up.. 9.3 for Lee.. 8.8 for Carlos.. and asked this administrator.. as the GM of the Indians.. knowing you need an OF'er.. Lee is a .256/.366/.409 MiLB'er in four years of minor league action (soon, will need to be rostered or will be a Rule V guy) with limited power, steals two bases for every one he's caught, has a little power and is a reasonable defender with a good arm. The ending question was.. before you made that deal, would you have your resume updated and made a few calls regarding openings in other organizations?.. He hasn't responded to my snark... but defends the "methodology" as if.. It's in good fun..

BTW.. as of now.. there seems to be a consensus that Karinchak is going to be annointed closer.. IDK if that's true.. Wittgren is more Tito's kind of guy.. Merryweather would be just as likely if he had some purchase as a major leaguer..

Thoughts?

 

[sportscoach]

@sportscoach

Yes.. Julian Merryweather is a guy that would fit nicely into the Indians bullpen.. IDK about back of... but close to there.. He's clearly got his arm back to where it was at before the surgery.. and is now being considered for a more important role in the pen or as a long reliever/spot starter by the Jays.. the same he'd have with the Indians... with a lesser likelihood of being given starting spots (double headers?)..

The Carlos Carrasco Valuation: I have a running discussion/argument with that site administrator regarding the value of Carrasco (8.8).. In his second or third response to my questioning the voracity of the value, he stated or claimed: "..As I’ve explained before, the valuation is equivalent to a 2/36 free agent deal, which is right in line with market precedent — especially for a guy with leukemia who is 34..

Carlos has a 2/24, not a 2/36.. Carlos has a third year option at 14 making his 3 year 3/38. The age issue.. is a statistical variant that portends velocity diminishing and rising FIP/xFIP along with other matrices.. none of which are true or happening with Carlos. The comparison I gave was Sonny Gray 2/22 which was responded with.. Gray is 4 years younger so.. and my response was.. Gray will be looking for a contract after these two years at more than double his current price.. Carlos has intimated that his current contract is his last.. so.. no reason to concern over future overpaying..

Another opportunist suggested a Carlos Carrasco for Kansas City's MiLB suspect, Khalil Lee. The deal was straight up.. 9.3 for Lee.. 8.8 for Carlos.. and asked this administrator.. as the GM of the Indians.. knowing you need an OF'er.. Lee is a .256/.366/.409 MiLB'er in four years of minor league action (soon, will need to be rostered or will be a Rule V guy) with limited power, steals two bases for every one he's caught, has a little power and is a reasonable defender with a good arm. The ending question was.. before you made that deal, would you have your resume updated and made a few calls regarding openings in other organizations?.. He hasn't responded to my snark... but defends the "methodology" as if.. It's in good fun..

BTW.. as of now.. there seems to be a consensus that Karinchak is going to be annointed closer.. IDK if that's true.. Wittgren is more Tito's kind of guy.. Merryweather would be just as likely if he had some purchase as a major leaguer..

Thoughts?

I have a hunch, if Merryweather is given a legit chance to be stretched out for starting, he would be legit as a starter. Its rare, even a short amount of innings, for a pitch to be thrown and never give up a single hit from it. No one has been able to hit his changeup since he increased his velocity on his fastball. He is throwing harder now than he ever did before his tommy john, plus his other two pitches are solid. Also his changeup is very good against lefties which is why they see it a lot. Its one of those, my eyeballs say, he is a starter with his pitches. His injury history says make him a reliever, but a worse cause scenario is a solid bullpen arm so I wouldn't be against getting him back in a deal if we trade Lindor to Toronto.

I don't 100% trust the back end of the bullpen the way it is now. I would love to sign a solid veteran closer, but its very unlikely. Hopefully in the trade we can get an arm to help that bullpen (hence why I targeted McClanahan in the Carrasco deal, since he looks like a legit left handed bullpen arm to me)

 

[sportscoach]

@Gson @MadThinker88

What about bringing in Ryan Zimmerman on a one year deal? Nationals went and got Bell which means Zimmerman isn't coming back more than likely. He is way past his prime, but I wouldn't mind someone to come in to compete/help the young guys out.

 

[MadThinker88]

@Gson @MadThinker88

What about bringing in Ryan Zimmerman on a one year deal? Nationals went and got Bell which means Zimmerman isn't coming back more than likely. He is way past his prime, but I wouldn't mind someone to come in to compete/help the young guys out.

Call it hunch or educated guess but I doubt Zimmerman plays anywhere/ for anyone other than the Nats...
I have seen some postings out there today that Bell might serve as a platoon partner with Zimmerman (Bell vs lefties)..

 

[hockeyjohn]

Uhhh, Riley is 23 yrs old and has displayed incredible power along with a history of hitting very well in the minors while being extremely young. I look for them to buy out a year or 2 of Bieber's arb years and keep him a little longer like they did Kluber. They may attempt to extend him like they did Carrasco. It's hard to predict the financial circumstances that far ahead. If Waters has any SO issues they are minor. More importantly, he hits for a good average, gets on base at a good clip, has some power, and is a threat on the bases.

Clearly you are one that thinks that 21 is an automatic flush, while I can't agree to that right now. I will say that it is no more of a flush than the current situation. The difference being the incredible upside that those trades would bring in. You would still have Carrasco to deal if needed as well.

If you guys are hellbent on getting Gurriel Jr, then maybe they could get Atlanta to send Camargo and keep Contreras. Johan would make a nice 2B for us until one of the prospects pushes him out. His versatility would be useful as well.

I do not think 2021 is a flush with a proper Lindor trade. I still see the Indians as a contender. That is the reason that I do not like Gson's trading of Jose. Trading Ramirez and completing Gson's trades eliminates from contending in 2021 and possibly 2022 as well. Atlanta has been trying to find better 3B replacements for Riley and Carmargo because neither one has hit. In 2019, Waters struck out over 31% of the time between AA and AAA. He struck out 40% in his 107 at bats at AAA. Although he is a great prospect, I doubt that he will be MLB ready to start 2021 with the Indians. I am not willing to sell out on 2021 and Gson's trades would do just that. As I stated previously, giving up on 2021 while we control Bieber and outstanding starting pitching is sickening to me. Just my opinion.

 

[EdMonix11]

FWIW, Drew Waters is one of the most toxic people in baseball. It's not a secret, either.

 

[CDAV45]

FWIW, Drew Waters is one of the most toxic people in baseball. It's not a secret, either.

If it's not a secret then you must be able to explain further. I personally don't know him and until you just mentioned it, hadn't seen or read anything of the sort. If it's true, then I wouldn't want him and surely the Indians FO and coaching staff wouldn't either. So what makes him one of the most toxic people in baseball?

 

[Gson]

I do not think 2021 is a flush with a proper Lindor trade. I still see the Indians as a contender. That is the reason that I do not like Gson's trading of Jose. Trading Ramirez and completing Gson's trades eliminates from contending in 2021 and possibly 2022 as well. Atlanta has been trying to find better 3B replacements for Riley and Carmargo because neither one has hit. In 2019, Waters struck out over 31% of the time between AA and AAA. He struck out 40% in his 107 at bats at AAA. Although he is a great prospect, I doubt that he will be MLB ready to start 2021 with the Indians. I am not willing to sell out on 2021 and Gson's trades would do just that. As I stated previously, giving up on 2021 while we control Bieber and outstanding starting pitching is sickening to me. Just my opinion.

Disagree with this..

 

[Gson]

FWIW, Drew Waters is one of the most toxic people in baseball. It's not a secret, either.

This is pure crapola..

 

[hockeyjohn]

Disagree with this..

As I disagree with you, so we are even. Happy Holidays.

 

[EdMonix11]

This is pure crapola..

I’d love for you to refute this.

I’ve heard he’s one of the most abrasive and arrogant guys in baseball. Enough so that some organizations won’t touch him- he was legit on multiple teams ‘don’t draft’ list a few years ago.

There’s a fairly prominent baseball publication that touched on it briefly in their Braves rankings. The AJC touched on it as well.

But please, if you have first hand knowledge to refute this, go ahead and share it.

 

[DCTribefan]

Call it hunch or educated guess but I doubt Zimmerman plays anywhere/ for anyone other than the Nats...
I have seen some postings out there today that Bell might serve as a platoon partner with Zimmerman (Bell vs lefties)..

Agree. Zimmerman is Mr. National and will retire before putting on a different uniform.

 

[Gson]

I’d love for you to refute this.

I’ve heard he’s one of the most abrasive and arrogant guys in baseball. Enough so that some organizations won’t touch him- he was legit on multiple teams ‘don’t draft’ list a few years ago.

There’s a fairly prominent baseball publication that touched on it briefly in their Braves rankings. The AJC touched on it as well.

But please, if you have first hand knowledge to refute this, go ahead and share it.

Gabriel Burns.. April 8th.. AJC.. Stays as subjective PURE CRAPOLA.. claim made..not supported..

 

[MirORich]

Indians keep FO/scouting staff in place and get bought by a new majority owner who authorizes annual payroll between 160-200M

End thread

/s