Sir'Dom Pointer
Hall-of-Famer
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- Oct 8, 2016
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link?
Use the search button and look for it. Good luck.
link?
Not a fan of this move or Okoro. He's been a disappointment as a top 5 pick and the lack of development over 4 seasons has been so aggravating. The amount of time and resources put in to help him grow as a player is well beyond what a lot of players in similar positions would have received.
I appreciate he is in the upper echelon of PoA defenders but it frustrates me immensely that he offers basically nothing if the person he's defending is not a perimeter player. He does not rebound, pass, or score at an average level for his position. I just do not get hoarding one dimensional guards. They may have less trade value around the league than any other position group.
I am ready to turn the page on Koby
KA also mentioned offensive rebounding. Last year Isaac had the highest offensive rebounding percentage on the team among non-bigs at 3.5%, putting him in the 53rd percentile. Josh Hart was 4.6%. I think Kenny envisions Isaac as a Josh Hart type of player. Hart is 6'4", 215, and has the same relentless, physical style of play.
If I were Okoro I'd watch Josh Hart video and try to clone myself after him.
LeVert, Okoro, and Niang are the basketball equivalent to a migraine. I am begging the basketball gods to get those guys off my favorite team.Totally agree with this take. Okoro at three years $38 million is a bad deal for us in numerous ways. We don’t even need him as a player, he is blocking the way for better prospects. Also disagree that this will be an easily tradeable contract. The era of throwing $10 million at lousy but vaguely playable guysis going to end as teams digest the implications of the second apron.
We now have $36 million a year tied up in Niang, Okoro, and Strus. (I know Strus is a starter but he’s basically a mediocre one). That’s not really the way to win in the modern NBA
no thxUse the search button and look for it. Good luck.
no thx
Yeah, his shot didn't fall. But he also was making some bad decisions with the ball in his hands. He didn't play within himself. I expect that out of Tyson. But Ice is going into his 5th year. Sure, he has some shackles removed, so it might take some time to find himself, but he was making a lot of bad decisions.I hate okoro but it's too early to tell. He has a huge adjustment period ahead of him now he actually has to move on offense. I didn't think he did anything terrible but his shots didn't fall.
Yeah, his shot didn't call. But he also was making some bad decisions with the ball in his hands. He didn't play within himself. I expect that out of Tyson. But Ice is going into his 5th year. Sure, he has some shackles removed, so it might take some time to find himself, but he was making a lot of bad decisions.
He's not only into his 5th year, but he's also received 4 years worth of a TON of minutes each season.
Minutes Played
2020-2021 2,173 (Shortened Season)
2021-2022 1,981
2022-2023 1,652
2023-2024 1,887
The only players Cavs fans have seen play more minutes over that stretch are Garland and Allen. I just dont know that I've seen much or even any progression in his game to warrant optimism. There's not a lot of options with what to do with Isaac on offense either:
JB (RIP) tried to have him initiate the offense for a stretch so that the defense couldnt sag off and clog the lane. That didnt work because his handles are too weak and he couldnt initiate the offense.
JB tried to hide him in the corner in the hopes that he would take and make the WIDE OPEN three ball. This was mildly successful in the regular season, but come playoffs, Isaac shrunk, and defenses were better, which further increased the clogged lane issues.
Kenny is reportedly going to try to turn Isaac into a motion man on offense and keep him cutting through the lane. I am very curious to see if this works and how defenses adjust to the wrinkle. If nothing else, I am hopeful that it can clear room for Isaac's teammates, so that they dont have to face as many sets with Isaac's defender tilting towards them. Even if Isaac's counting stats dont show an improvement (which is laughable to even think about) if this adjustment can improve the offense with him on the court, it's a win.
However, I really don't even understand the point. For starters, his best position is SG, and the Cavs already have at least three SG's better than Isaac, including the best player on the team, on the roster (Mitchell, LeVert, & Strus). It's arguable that Merrill is also a better fit for what this team needs and he should receive minutes ahead of Isaac too. Now, obviously because of poor roster construction, several of those guys, including Isaac himself receive minutes at SF. However, again I ask what is the point of trying to cater the offense to Isaac when he is on the court???
The universally accepted answer to that question is defense, right? But I have to ask, and forgive me Isaac stans, is he actually that good defensively? Let's take a look at the defensive metrics for last year:
Defensive Rating - Isaac ranked tied for 10th on the team among qualified players
Defensive Win Shares - Isaac ranked tied for 6th on the team.
Defensive Box Plus/Minus - Isaac ranked 8th on the team.
I'll be the first to call out that defensive stats can be difficult to use to evaluate a player's defense. Typically, it needs to be combined with the eye test to truly form an opinion. Like many of you fanatics, I watch every single Cavs game every year, and typically watch each playoff game twice. We've seen a lot of Isaac Okoro. My opinion is that his defensive skills are severely overrated by Cavs fans. I've 100% seen enough of Isaac's hands raised upwards with a quizzical look on his face directed at an official who has made the same exact call on him the three previous times in the game for one lifetime. I've said it before, but Isaac guarding Trae Young is just about the worst thing to be forced to watch. PG's are too quick for him and wings are too long for him. Unless I'm getting forgetful the older I get, the only real superstar player who I can think of that Isaac routinely does fantastic against is Jim Harden. Harden is neither quick or long, so I guess that archetype is where Okoro shines.
One more thing.. I've seen this brought up on Twitter, in post series articles, on this website multiple times, and even during the broadcast of last night's preseason game. Can we stop saying Isaac shutdown Banchero in the playoffs? Banchero averaged 27 PPG in that series and scored 38 in the infamous "shutdown" game 7. 38! Are we saying Isaac shut him down because he didnt score 50? I have really struggled with why people use that game as a launching board for what Isaac could mean for this team in the future.
I'll stand by my viewpoint that Isaac was an overdraft and now even worse, an overpay. His offense is still poor 5 years in, his defense is significantly overrated, and he is an atrocious rebounder. His best attribute to this team is that he works hard and is a great culture guy. He's an easy guy to root for because of how likeable he is, but he's a poor use of resources and a bad fit on this team. I sincerely hope he proves me wrong and the Cavs can squeeze value out of him either on court or via a trade, but I am very skeptical that will happen.
He's not only into his 5th year, but he's also received 4 years worth of a TON of minutes each season.
Minutes Played
2020-2021 2,173 (Shortened Season)
2021-2022 1,981
2022-2023 1,652
2023-2024 1,887
The only players Cavs fans have seen play more minutes over that stretch are Garland and Allen. I just dont know that I've seen much or even any progression in his game to warrant optimism. There's not a lot of options with what to do with Isaac on offense either:
JB (RIP) tried to have him initiate the offense for a stretch so that the defense couldnt sag off and clog the lane. That didnt work because his handles are too weak and he couldnt initiate the offense.
JB tried to hide him in the corner in the hopes that he would take and make the WIDE OPEN three ball. This was mildly successful in the regular season, but come playoffs, Isaac shrunk, and defenses were better, which further increased the clogged lane issues.
Kenny is reportedly going to try to turn Isaac into a motion man on offense and keep him cutting through the lane. I am very curious to see if this works and how defenses adjust to the wrinkle. If nothing else, I am hopeful that it can clear room for Isaac's teammates, so that they dont have to face as many sets with Isaac's defender tilting towards them. Even if Isaac's counting stats dont show an improvement (which is laughable to even think about) if this adjustment can improve the offense with him on the court, it's a win.
However, I really don't even understand the point. For starters, his best position is SG, and the Cavs already have at least three SG's better than Isaac, including the best player on the team, on the roster (Mitchell, LeVert, & Strus). It's arguable that Merrill is also a better fit for what this team needs and he should receive minutes ahead of Isaac too. Now, obviously because of poor roster construction, several of those guys, including Isaac himself receive minutes at SF. However, again I ask what is the point of trying to cater the offense to Isaac when he is on the court???
The universally accepted answer to that question is defense, right? But I have to ask, and forgive me Isaac stans, is he actually that good defensively? Let's take a look at the defensive metrics for last year:
Defensive Rating - Isaac ranked tied for 10th on the team among qualified players
Defensive Win Shares - Isaac ranked tied for 6th on the team.
Defensive Box Plus/Minus - Isaac ranked 8th on the team.
I'll be the first to call out that defensive stats can be difficult to use to evaluate a player's defense. Typically, it needs to be combined with the eye test to truly form an opinion. Like many of you fanatics, I watch every single Cavs game every year, and typically watch each playoff game twice. We've seen a lot of Isaac Okoro. My opinion is that his defensive skills are severely overrated by Cavs fans. I've 100% seen enough of Isaac's hands raised upwards with a quizzical look on his face directed at an official who has made the same exact call on him the three previous times in the game for one lifetime. I've said it before, but Isaac guarding Trae Young is just about the worst thing to be forced to watch. PG's are too quick for him and wings are too long for him. Unless I'm getting forgetful the older I get, the only real superstar player who I can think of that Isaac routinely does fantastic against is Jim Harden. Harden is neither quick or long, so I guess that archetype is where Okoro shines.
One more thing.. I've seen this brought up on Twitter, in post series articles, on this website multiple times, and even during the broadcast of last night's preseason game. Can we stop saying Isaac shutdown Banchero in the playoffs? Banchero averaged 27 PPG in that series and scored 38 in the infamous "shutdown" game 7. 38! Are we saying Isaac shut him down because he didnt score 50? I have really struggled with why people use that game as a launching board for what Isaac could mean for this team in the future.
I'll stand by my viewpoint that Isaac was an overdraft and now even worse, an overpay. His offense is still poor 5 years in, his defense is significantly overrated, and he is an atrocious rebounder. His best attribute to this team is that he works hard and is a great culture guy. He's an easy guy to root for because of how likeable he is, but he's a poor use of resources and a bad fit on this team. I sincerely hope he proves me wrong and the Cavs can squeeze value out of him either on court or via a trade, but I am very skeptical that will happen.
Yeah, too bad the search function hasn't worked since Lebron was 24Use the search button and look for it. Good luck.
Yeah, too bad the search function hasn't worked since Lebron was 24
I don't care enough, just wanted to see proof if someone saw in Okoro what I saw.Try it on Linux