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Isaac 3 & D Okoro - A Two Way Playing Basketball Savant

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Who is Isaac Okoro's Favorite Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Emperor?

  • Arcadius (if one does not count Constantine as first)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Justinian the Great

    Votes: 8 14.3%
  • Zeno

    Votes: 2 3.6%
  • Heraclius

    Votes: 3 5.4%
  • Basil II, the Bulgar Slayer

    Votes: 6 10.7%
  • Nikephoros II Phokas, the Pale Death of the Saracens

    Votes: 7 12.5%
  • Alexios I Komnenos

    Votes: 4 7.1%
  • John II, the Beautiful Komnenos

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Constantine XI

    Votes: 4 7.1%
  • Jim I Chones, the Magnificent

    Votes: 26 46.4%

  • Total voters
    56
So how long do we wait? Meanwhile, he's out there hurting the offense in every game and making things harder for everyone else. I don't care if he's 16 years old, he's an NBA starter and he needs to get it together.

You can't seriously be suggesting we start switching the people around Okoro because HE can't do what's expected from a 2 guard.
If you're drafting high ceiling guys who you know are going to be a project on the offensive end, you have to give them three full years. You don't need to start them for three full years, but if you're going to be this impatient with them, then you should pass on drafting them altogether.

Many of the really good two-way players around the NBA were really, really raw coming out of college and it took them a couple of years to get it together. Look at Jimmy Butler, Jaylen Brown and Duante Murray's stats their first two seasons. They're all comparable to Okoro.

I wouldn't mind kicking the tires on J. Rich so we had a two-way option in the postseason, but if you trade for a bad defender who shoots a lot, you're just creating a new problem, or two, in order to address an old one. One of the reasons I still have the Bucks over the Nets coming out of the East is because I have zero faith that the Nets can get stops when they need them. Being able to develop guys and still win during the regular season is a luxury very few teams in the NBA have. The Cavs are fortunate to be in their present position.
 
We needed Okoro and Stevens this last game. Okoro on White and Stevens on Demar
 
Y’all realize Okoro just turned 20? For fucks sake people.

He’s already improved considerably in the short time he’s been in the league, and I don’t see that stopping.

Will he ever become a lights out shooter? No, that’s highly unlikely. But he can certainly get to league average numbers. And when you factor in his defense, you have somebody that can be a really nice contributor on a contender.

Okoro's total shooting is already league average and he takes 40% of his shots from 3.

Okoro is above average at 2's because he is a strong finisher and slasher, his 3 points is at 31%, below average, but lets not act like the guy shoots like Ben Simmons. my goal for him is 36%-38% and i think that is reasonable in the next 2-3 years. If Okoro gets there then he is an above average starter not just player.

That said, I dont think Okoro is untradeable or someone you avoid making moves for. He played just as hard off the bench as a starter, and the overall goal is to make our team better and win a championship. But i really like Okoro as a piece and dont care where he was drafted, any guy who defends like him will find a place in my rotation.
 
I don't think both Okoro and Lauri can start on a team that wants to compete for a title unless one of them takes a real leap as a playmaker, which I think is extremely unlikely. The Cavs are simply too one-dimensional on offense in that world, even with Mobely's projected improvements.

I see your point but dont 100% agree because of Mobley and the wonder unicorn. At his current rate, Mobley will be averaging 25 assists a game, lol. (joking)....but the speed of how quick Mobley is learning and what he has shown to play make from the elbow, i think he can be our 2nd play maker as early as next year.

That said, I think Laura takes over the triple backup role of sf/pf/c eventually and adds strength that way, i do think we need a dynamic SF in the mix.
 
There's not really a noticeable difference between him in the lineup vs Stevens at this point.
 
If you're drafting high ceiling guys who you know are going to be a project on the offensive end, you have to give them three full years. You don't need to start them for three full years, but if you're going to be this impatient with them, then you should pass on drafting them altogether.

Many of the really good two-way players around the NBA were really, really raw coming out of college and it took them a couple of years to get it together. Look at Jimmy Butler, Jaylen Brown and Duante Murray's stats their first two seasons. They're all comparable to Okoro.

But that's just it. I have no problem with Okoro getting minutes. I just don't want him getting these minutes, and starting.

Once again - the only reason this guy is even sniffing the Cavs starting lineup is because he was a high pick. If Okoro had been picked in the 2nd round, he'd be an 8th or 9th guy on this team with his current skill level. That is a fact.

You don't try to learn basic basketball skills in the starting lineup of a good NBA team.
 
There's not really a noticeable difference between him in the lineup vs Stevens at this point.
Strong disagree. Okoro is better than Stevens., on both ends. Stevens struggles to stay in front of quicker guards. Okoro has a much better first step, runs the floor better, has a better handle, and gets to the line more. Also, Stevens passes up open 3s a little too often for my taste. I'd rather a guy take them and miss then refuse to take them at all. There's a reason Stevens only averages 15 mpg despite Okoro having missed 15 games this season.

We lose a game and everyone is freaking out. I have bad news for perfectionist fans, if we make a trade and start someone else at the 2, we're still going to lose games on occasion. What's important are growth, maturity, and trendlines. If I was seeing zero improvement from Okoro, I'd be worried. But that's not what I'm seeing.
 
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Would you rather….watch Windler on defense or Okoro on offense?

Eh…We gotta teach the ginger how to play defense.
 
Forget trades. At this point I'm willing to start Windler at the 2.

Never thought I'd say those words.
 
But that's just it. I have no problem with Okoro getting minutes. I just don't want him getting these minutes, and starting.

Once again - the only reason this guy is even sniffing the Cavs starting lineup is because he was a high pick. If Okoro had been picked in the 2nd round, he'd be an 8th or 9th guy on this team with his current skill level. That is a fact.

You don't try to learn basic basketball skills in the starting lineup of a good NBA team.
The bolded is a strongly held opinion, not a fact. Okoro has started because he's a better option than Cedi or Stevens. Even starting Rubio would've disrupted the entire second unit and the team as a whole. Okoro has missed 15 games this season. I must have missed the awesome improvement to the starting unit when he was out. Fans are significantly discounting his defensive impact and what it means for Garland to get the weaker assignment and for the bigs to be able to stay out of foul trouble.

Watch what happens to Okoro's +/- numbers now that Rubio's out for the season. It's not surprising that rotations with Rubio and Garland, when Rubio was having a career year, were better. But that doesn't follow that if if you tasked Rubio with defending the other team's best guard for 30mpg, it would've worked out better for the starters, the bench unit, or Rubio himself.
 
He is literally a 2nd year player. I dont know why we expect our players to have complete games at age 20 and then ignore all the faults of the players we would rather have from other teams. What Okoro has that I think will really enable him to be a solid player is his elite feel. You cannot teach that.

I dont really care if he is costing us a few games this season, if it allows him to develop more long term, gets our guys more familiar with his game. I understand the desire to make reactionary hot takes after every game, but one game does not a season or career make. Trading for a filler 2 that limits Okoro's development time this season just to secure a slightly better seed this year is an awful move.
 

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