Isaac 3 & D Okoro - A Two Way Playing Basketball Savant

[ice cream man]

I knew once that poster mentioned Dennis Rodman everyone was gonna flip out. He wasn’t comparing Okoro to Rodman. He was just using an extreme example to say that you can impact the game without racking up points and assists. Pretty simple point that can’t be denied. Relax.

 

[David.]

Can somebody dumb down these stats for me?

He takes on the toughest assignments in the league and scores 3rd highest in success.

When controlling for the two he probably finished behind thybulle and no one else

 

[Fish Monger]

He takes on the toughest assignments in the league and scores 3rd highest in success.

When controlling for the two he probably finished behind thybulle and no one else

For people who can't see value in a player without a computer telling them to, this is what you've been waiting for.

 

[David.]

For people who can't see value in a player without a computer telling them to, this is what you've been waiting for.

I would never have guessed he was at the level without the data

 

[Douglar]

I knew once that poster mentioned Dennis Rodman everyone was gonna flip out. He wasn’t comparing Okoro to Rodman. He was just using an extreme example to say that you can impact the game without racking up points and assists. Pretty simple point that can’t be denied. Relax.

Exactly. No comparison between Rodman and Okoro. Rodman was much funnier. Just ask Carmen Electra.

 

[Cavatt]

Okoro can take on tough defensive assignments because he pretty much rests on offense

It's science

I know this is a flippant response, but it is something that actually happens. Nobody is ripping Allen for his poor offensive outing, but he had his hands full being Giannis' primary defender and he only held him to 26. Allen scored 10, not good enough to beat the champs right?

Okoro shut down Holiday. He had 4 pts. Jrue is regarded as the best pg defender in the league and he was able to hold Garland to 10 on Dec 6th. Okoro took that guy out of the game.

The offense hasn't been as good lately, but I think the defense might be even better. These guys are locked in and playing as a unit.

Okoro scoring a lot of points against a team that protects the basket so well wasn't part of the game plan.

 

[weepinwillow]

I know this is a flippant response, but it is something that actually happens. Nobody is ripping Allen for his poor offensive outing, but he had his hands full being Giannis' primary defender and he only held him to 26. Allen scored 10, not good enough to beat the champs right?

Okoro shut down Holiday. He had 4 pts. Jrue is regarded as the best pg defender in the league and he was able to hold Garland to 10 on Dec 6th. Okoro took that guy out of the game.

The offense hasn't been as good lately, but I think the defense might be even better. These guys are locked in and playing as a unit.

Okoro scoring a lot of points against a team that protects the basket so well wasn't part of the game plan.

I think we have to accept that Okoro will only be appreciated by some if he scores 14+ PPG and hits on one of the other "counting" stats. It does not matter that there are multiple actions that go into any one basketball play, scoring or keeping the opponent from scoring by one of the 5 team members being the desired outcome.

Is there a stat for a player moving the ball which keeps the defense moving and recovering, which in turn allows for angles to be lost, which in turn opens new passing angles which result in a shot at the basket or an in rhythm 3? Is there a stat for cutting through the defense as the ball rotates which in turn forces a defender to make the decision to follow or not, which in turn opens up passing angles and driving lanes?

If Okoro were not so special on defense, he would likely not get minutes, for sure, but not only is he so special a defender, he's an extremely smart offensive player who works inside a limitation of not being strong with his handle or his shot. Some guys who can dribble and shoot never figure out how to play without the ball in their hands, Okoro is a mediocre jump-shot away from being such a good 2 way player, and he already knows how to play off ball, what happens when he can actually hit the shot consistently?

This:

 

[foucault87]

All this Okoro talk makes me wonder how some of you guys would've felt about guys like Battier or Unseld. Neither really was great by counting stats (tho Wes did inhale boards back when you could still do that as someone not named Drummond or Rodman), but they absolutely dominated the game in other ways. Battier was closer to Okoro in that he was a borderline allstar talent as a lockdown perimeter defender. Unseld was just the god of screens and little things. If we had either of those guys, I am sure half this board would trade them for 3 months of Terrence Ross.

 

[Goldin Brown]

I know this is a flippant response, but it is something that actually happens. Nobody is ripping Allen for his poor offensive outing, but he had his hands full being Giannis' primary defender and he only held him to 26. Allen scored 10, not good enough to beat the champs right?

Okoro shut down Holiday. He had 4 pts. Jrue is regarded as the best pg defender in the league and he was able to hold Garland to 10 on Dec 6th. Okoro took that guy out of the game.

The offense hasn't been as good lately, but I think the defense might be even better. These guys are locked in and playing as a unit.

Okoro scoring a lot of points against a team that protects the basket so well wasn't part of the game plan.

Good defense goes unnoticed by many and lots of people don't understand how good defense actually helps your offense. This Cavs team's success is due, in large part, to the team's defensive ability. Okoro is valuable because he can guard the opposing teams best perimeter player, so that Garland doesn't have to and that allows Darius to put more energy on offense. Isaac is such a great defender he can slow down and frustrate some of the best scorers in the world, plus with our back line of Mobley and Allen we can force teams to take horrible shots. That equates to stops and allows the Cavs to get out and run, get transition buckets or get easy opportunities in early offense. That type of stuff is demoralizing to your opponent, big reason why the Cavs have had so many blow out wins.

 

[Cavatt]

I think we have to accept that Okoro will only be appreciated by some if he scores 14+ PPG and hits on one of the other "counting" stats. It does not matter that there are multiple actions that go into any one basketball play, scoring or keeping the opponent from scoring by one of the 5 team members being the desired outcome.

Is there a stat for a player moving the ball which keeps the defense moving and recovering, which in turn allows for angles to be lost, which in turn opens new passing angles which result in a shot at the basket or an in rhythm 3? Is there a stat for cutting through the defense as the ball rotates which in turn forces a defender to make the decision to follow or not, which in turn opens up passing angles and driving lanes?

If Okoro were not so special on defense, he would likely not get minutes, for sure, but not only is he so special a defender, he's an extremely smart offensive player who works inside a limitation of not being strong with his handle or his shot. Some guys who can dribble and shoot never figure out how to play without the ball in their hands, Okoro is a mediocre jump-shot away from being such a good 2 way player, and he already knows how to play off ball, what happens when he can actually hit the shot consistently?

This:

There are a lot of shooting guard things in that reel. Need to see more of that.

Passing has been really good lately.

Step back off the dribble 3?

 

[weepinwillow]

There are a lot of shooting guard things in that reel. Need to see more of that.

Passing has been really good lately.

Step back off the dribble 3?

Isaac is super conservative on offense, and probably to a fault. I'd like to see them run more pick and roll action every now and then with him, let him fail or succeed in game action. I think he can develop everything you see in that video though. Doubt he ever hits as a 20 ppg scorer, though. Just not in his DNA.

 

[DirtyDan]

I'm really happy with his development on defense and believe he can get to the point where his offense is decent.

Can we still upgrade to a better overall starter at SG? Definitely. He can spot start without issue and at the same time I don't think he has completely locked up his spot in the starting lineup.

Can Okoro remain a starter if they decide not to upgrade his position? Definitely, on the condition that his shooting gets closer to 35% percent. He still has time to work on his offense, but I think it's clear as time passes that he doesn't have the potential to be a Butler type of wing. That's okay. He excels at his role and still has room to grow. Think him and the team should continue prioritizing that jumper and maybe his rebounding/handle if possible.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

I think Okoro is better offensively than he has been able to showcase because of lingering injuries, poor mental and offensive role.

You need more time to evaluate what he is truly capable of. There are glimpses.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

He takes on the toughest assignments in the league and scores 3rd highest in success. When controlling for the two he probably finished behind thybulle and no one else

So...is BBallIndex saying Okoro is the second best defender in the NBA? Better than Gobert? Draymond Green?

I'm very skeptical. I think he's the third best on the Cavs. Ask NBA players whether they would rather be guarded by Okoro, Mobley, or Allen. Whether they be bigs, wings, or point guards I think most would say Okoro.

I would love to have a situation where in the last two minutes the Cavs could play Okoro when the opponent has the ball and Eric Gordon when the Cavs have the ball. With all the time outs and free throws that take place in the last two minutes of a close game having that flexibility would be a huge asset. I think that's why the Cavs are looking hard at getting a Gordon or a LeVert or a Terrance Ross.

The Cavs are also prone to stretches where they go 4-5 minutes without scoring a field goal. Not every game, but it's still happening. Being able to bring in a guy like Gordon, LeVert, or Ross to get a bucket and break the opponent's momentum would be huge.

You could also play the offensive guy when the Cavs are behind and need scoring while going with Okoro when they are ahead.

I don't think the front office will sit on their hands when they have the DPE plus Rubio's contract and a $3.7 million trade exemption to work with. I think they will make a deal, maybe two. That win over Milwaukee with Markkanen out and Garland limited may have changed their mindset on how far they can go this year. I can't wait to see who they decide to get.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Good stuff, Willard. Could you check and see how they rank Okoro's defense this year compared to last?