Isaac 3 & D Okoro - A Two Way Playing Basketball Savant

[cliffdawg]

2013–14

Chicago

67

67

38.7

.397

.283

.769

4.9

2.6

1.9

.5

13.1

2020–21	Cleveland	67	67	32.4	.420	.290	.726	3.1	1.9	.9	.4	9.6
2021–22	Cleveland	67	61	29.6	.480	.350	.768	3.0	1.8	.8	.3	8.8

Once again I’m not saying Okoro would turn into Jimmy Butter but since his name is getting thrown around I did a comparison , I put the first year as a starter stats up for Jimmy Butler he was age 24 for the whole season, his first 2 years he pretty much sat the bench and had horrible stats …. Okoro first 2 year stats would put Butler first 2 years stats to shame,

For anyone to say it’s not fair Okoro was a starter for almost 2 years at the age of 20 and 21…. I might say and let’s be honest he shouldn’t have been a starter….just like when Butler at age 22 and 23 he should have sat the bench and earn/ learn the NBA game ,

Here the funny part regarding Butler he had 4 years of college and 2 years of pretty much sitting the bench in the pro‘s ……so that 6 years to learn and develop his overall game before becoming a full time Starter …..Okoro had 1 year of college and then thrown right into the hardest league in the world to do all the things that took Butler 6 years to do and that’s to become a full time starter in the NBA…With that said I don’t n think Okoro will ever become Jimmy Butler, but could he become a serviceable NBA player ,time will tell…..

 

[dark2332]

21 years old - Jimmy Butler was 22 his rookie season in the NBA. My favorite Okoro take is him not fitting the timeline of this team because he needs another three years. As if our window is only the next two years. In reality we’re not a contender for next year and probably not the following year as we’re still too young & inexperienced. But some people have no patience and DEMAND WINS NOW!

Brew, if you’re still comparing Okoro to Jimmy Butler, I don’t know what to tell you.

I haven’t given up on him becoming valuable to this team.

I have given up on him ever being a strong offensive player. At this point, I’d just love average offensively.

 

[AllforOne]

21 years old - Jimmy Butler was 22 his rookie season in the NBA. My favorite Okoro take is him not fitting the timeline of this team because he needs another three years. As if our window is only the next two years. In reality we’re not a contender for next year and probably not the following year as we’re still too young & inexperienced. But some people have no patience and DEMAND WINS NOW!

Brew, I normally agree with you, but I see this one differently.

In a vacuum, your take makes sense. Okoro is only 21. He should have several more seasons of potential development.

But while the Cavs’ window isn’t just the next 2-3 seasons, their window for developing talent outside of a rookie contract will be. Garland will be making the max. Allen is getting $20 mil a year. We’ll have Markkanen and at least one of Sexton and LeVert (possibly both, and/or possibly comparably-priced talent acquired for those guys via trade). And in three years, Mobley will be getting a max.

There’s just not going to be salary room for a 24-year-old Okoro if he’s still trying to find himself offensively; and I suspect that even two or three years from now, he will still be in that “maybe he’ll put it together someday” category. If he is, some other team will likely overpay in hopes that he figures it out on their watch.

Not saying it means that a decision on Okoro has to be made today. It doesn’t. But if he’s still here two years from now, unless he has leapt forward on offense, the Cavs just aren’t going to have the salary room to give him that second contract.

 

[foucault87]

I am going to disagree with the last few posts here. Our core is super young. Our real window doesn't begin for another 3-4 years and ends somewhere around 2035 if not later. We have a ton of time to develop talent and see where things go.

We knew Okoro was raw. Everyone expecting him to be a world-beater on day 1 needs to re-evaluate what a normal development curve looks like. He has shown a lot of good stuff and we know there is a legit two-way stud in there. Dumping him for a shitty upgrade in 2022 is how you become the Kings. When he blows up on the Pacers or Miami or SAS, you are going to look like a clown. Why do that when he can be your 3rd star in CLE? Because some fans got impatient and want to contend immediately?

 

[dark2332]

I am going to disagree with the last few posts here. Our core is super young. Our real window doesn't begin for another 3-4 years and ends somewhere around 2035 if not later. We have a ton of time to develop talent and see where things go.

We knew Okoro was raw. Everyone expecting him to be a world-beater on day 1 needs to re-evaluate what a normal development curve looks like. He has shown a lot of good stuff and we know there is a legit two-way stud in there. Dumping him for a shitty upgrade in 2022 is how you become the Kings. When he blows up on the Pacers or Miami or SAS, you are going to look like a clown. Why do that when he can be your 3rd star in CLE? Because some fans got impatient and want to contend immediately?

Okoro, the 3rd star?

Good lord, we spent most of last season just hoping people would care enough that he’s out there to not leave him completely open.

I’m on crazy pills here. His shooting form is coming along, it’s noticeable. He improved as a shooter, albeit on an unwillingness to actually shoot. I get that there are positive signs.

Defensively, he’s not Marcus Smart. He’s an athletic guy who gives a damn on that end, and for that I’m grateful.

I’m not being impatient because “our title window is 3-4 years from now.”

Right now, Lamar Stevens is a better offensive player than Isaac Okoro. I don’t care about age, we’re talking about a UDFA.

Okoro’s handle is poor, and even as it improves, I don’t think the offensive confidence is there to ever become some sort of offensive go-to. He’s simply not comfortable with the ball in his hands.

If he eventually becomes a guy who gets me 14 ppg on 48%/36% while playing defense, pushing in transition, and shooting open threes, I’ll take it. That has value in the league.

I’m not saying I’m out on Okoro. But calling him a dude who is going to turn into Jimmy Butler—an All-Star, an All-NBA guy, a guy who facilitates and you run an entire offense through. That’s simply nuts.

 

[inliner311]

I am going to disagree with the last few posts here. Our core is super young. Our real window doesn't begin for another 3-4 years and ends somewhere around 2035 if not later. We have a ton of time to develop talent and see where things go.

We knew Okoro was raw. Everyone expecting him to be a world-beater on day 1 needs to re-evaluate what a normal development curve looks like. He has shown a lot of good stuff and we know there is a legit two-way stud in there. Dumping him for a shitty upgrade in 2022 is how you become the Kings. When he blows up on the Pacers or Miami or SAS, you are going to look like a clown. Why do that when he can be your 3rd star in CLE? Because some fans got impatient and want to contend immediately?

I wouldn't trade Okoro but I think year 3 after he has played so many minutes over his first 2 seasons is where they have to switch the approach. They can't just carve out big minutes for Okoro without him earning them. If he comes to camp with no expanded offense, I think they got to treat him like a defensive specialist and his minutes should be matching that role.

They have to balance his minutes and the potential development of other players too. The 10-15 extra minutes a game that might be allotted to him might end up hurting the #14 pick's development path.

 

[David.]

Prepare to be disappointed. The probability of Pick 14 being as good as 3rd year Okoro (let alone "head and shoulders better") is probably about 5%. But fans tend to be enamored with "shiny new objects."

Well we're not competing this year so the real question is who's going to be better in a handful of years, okoro or draft dude

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

I am going to disagree with the last few posts here. Our core is super young. Our real window doesn't begin for another 3-4 years and ends somewhere around 2035 if not later. We have a ton of time to develop talent and see where things go.

We knew Okoro was raw. Everyone expecting him to be a world-beater on day 1 needs to re-evaluate what a normal development curve looks like. He has shown a lot of good stuff and we know there is a legit two-way stud in there. Dumping him for a shitty upgrade in 2022 is how you become the Kings. When he blows up on the Pacers or Miami or SAS, you are going to look like a clown. Why do that when he can be your 3rd star in CLE? Because some fans got impatient and want to contend immediately?

Our window ends in 2035? This is kind of nuts to be honest. That’s 13 years from now.

Hell, in the last 13 years in Cavs history we had and lost LeBron twice, had three #1 picks, all of which got traded away, won a championship, won 24 games or less six times, and had six different coaches.

Point is, a lot can happen in even 5 years in the league. Yes, Cavs need to continue to develop guys, but the consideration has to be what players will maximize Garland and Mobley. Maybe Okoro’s one of those guys. I tend to think he’s not (especially if we’re keeping Sexton & LeVert), but that’s just me.

His value isn’t going to be crazy high, but I’m not sure why he couldn’t be moved for a player of similar skill & age that plays a different position and could potentially be a better fit long-term. There’s probably some solid younger vets you could get for Cedi & Okoro where a team just wants to move a contract or potentially in a S&T. No one that’s going to be a star player, but someone that will contribute at a different position.

That being said, if you’re waiting for Okoro to become the 3rd star on this team, you’re going to be waiting a very long time. He can definitely improve, but I’ve seen absolutely nothing that would make me believe he ever becomes a star in this league. The offensive skill set simply isn’t there, and it wasn’t there in college or HS either. He mainly just got buckets because he was so much stronger and physically developed compared to his competition.

 

[2 For The Brew]

Somehow Jimmy Butler praising Isaac Okoro in his rookie season became “Isaac Okoro is the next Jimmy Butler.”

I for one never said Ice would be the next Jimmy, but if someone has receipts that show otherwise I’ll own that.

The kid was drafted raw and was thrown into the most minutes on the team and by far the most minutes of his rookie class. He was third in minutes played on the team this year - a team that one 44 games. When we were kicking ass early in the year he was a key part of our very good defense.

As the year went on he improved his shooting, which was much better than his rookie year. He is devastating on the open floor, likes contact, draws fouls and knocks down his FTs.

Clearly his handle is still weak and he doesn’t shoot enough, he’s has no midrange game at all and his finishing at the rim against opposition is awful.

He’s often matched up against taller players and that can be a problem for him.

All that said, he’s an asset to the team and he’s already shown he can improve his offensive game. We have two more years on his rookie contract. I don’t know how much he’ll improve the next two years and neither does anyone else.

At worst he’s a 9th-10th player on a good team.

Clearly if he doesn’t improve much then we won’t be signing him to a big contract and it won’t matter much if he leaves.

But claiming that 2 years and 21 years old is long enough to know a player’s value is just ridiculous. There are plenty of examples of late bloomers who didn’t show out until more than two years and older than 21 - like Butler.

 

[cavsfever]

I am going to disagree with the last few posts here. Our core is super young. Our real window doesn't begin for another 3-4 years and ends somewhere around 2035 if not later. We have a ton of time to develop talent and see where things go.

We knew Okoro was raw. Everyone expecting him to be a world-beater on day 1 needs to re-evaluate what a normal development curve looks like. He has shown a lot of good stuff and we know there is a legit two-way stud in there. Dumping him for a shitty upgrade in 2022 is how you become the Kings. When he blows up on the Pacers or Miami or SAS, you are going to look like a clown. Why do that when he can be your 3rd star in CLE? Because some fans got impatient and want to contend immediately?

A lot of wild stuff in this post but the craziest is saying that our window goes through 2035 “if not later”.

 

[dark2332]

Somehow Jimmy Butler praising Isaac Okoro in his rookie season became “Isaac Okoro is the next Jimmy Butler.”

I for one never said Ice would be the next Jimmy, but if someone has receipts that show otherwise I’ll own that.

The kid was drafted raw and was thrown into the most minutes on the team and by far the most minutes of his rookie class. He was third in minutes played on the team this year - a team that one 44 games. When we were kicking ass early in the year he was a key part of our very good defense.

As the year went on he improved his shooting, which was much better than his rookie year. He is devastating on the open floor, likes contact, draws fouls and knocks down his FTs.

Clearly his handle is still weak and he doesn’t shoot enough, he’s has no midrange game at all and his finishing at the rim against opposition is awful.

He’s often matched up against taller players and that can be a problem for him.

All that said, he’s an asset to the team and he’s already shown he can improve his offensive game. We have two more years on his rookie contract. I don’t know how much he’ll improve the next two years and neither does anyone else.

At worst he’s a 9th-10th player on a good team.

Clearly if he doesn’t improve much then we won’t be signing him to a big contract and it won’t matter much if he leaves.

But claiming that 2 years and 21 years old is long enough to know a player’s value is just ridiculous. There are plenty of examples of late bloomers who didn’t show out until more than two years and older than 21 - like Butler.

Brew, no one is saying he couldn’t be valuable to this team if his offense keeps progressing while hustling defensively.

I’m just saying he’s not going to magically turn into some player that carries the offense for this team. Who said to move on and cut bait? I literally called it a “win-win” he either stays our 8th man defensive specialist or he evolves into what we hoped.

And in terms of receipts, you’re the first one today to put him with Jimmy Butler. In fact, this feels an awful lot like insinuating he has Jimmy Butler upside, otherwise why mention him at all?

21 years old - Jimmy Butler was 22 his rookie season in the NBA. My favorite Okoro take is him not fitting the timeline of this team because he needs another three years. As if our window is only the next two years. In reality we’re not a contender for next year and probably not the following year as we’re still too young & inexperienced. But some people have no patience and DEMAND WINS NOW!

This all came simply from me replying to you, who said “Thigh haters.”

I called him a “brick shithouse” which apparently I need to explain. It’s a reference to 1) his strong physique and 2) to the jocular statement that you could build a house with the bricks he lays nightly.

 

[Heat Check]

People need to force themselves to forget where Okoro was drafted. Right now, the fact that he was a high pick is still warping the expectations.

 

[cavsfever]

People need to force themselves to forget where Okoro was drafted. Right now, the fact that he was a high pick is still warping the expectations.

It’s hard to do this because his role on the team was so affected by that. I find it hard to imagine he would have been our primary starter at SG/SF for two straight seasons if he hadn’t been a lottery pick. He’s gotten just incredible opportunities for playing time given his age and skill set, hard to think of someone like him in the entire NBA who has been in a better situation

 

[foucault87]

I think people are overexpecting things with Okoro. He is the next Paul Pierce. It is very obvious.

 

[Cavatt]

He's a positive player in his second year all his lineups except ones with no shooters are positive.

Okoro is a teacher's pet. Doesn't make a lot of mistakes, but also doesn't gamble enough. For steals or to call his own number.

His 3 pt percentage was good enough he needs to risk that percentage for a higher volume